Is TULIP biblical?

[journeymanisnothing]

Ephesians 1:4 kjv
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The seed is the Word of God
The ground is men’s hearts

The story of our physical health is written in our DNA. That is not a super spiritual thing, but it does shadow spiritual potential. To get it all to work we must be born again.

So
One person looks at the human body and figures out that ( to be born again will be my solution).

His friends say forget all that physical stuff from creation and listen to the doctrine of predestination as seen by reformed people. Romans 1:20 does not say what you think it says. If anyone lacks some information God will not answer in regard to human anatomy. I say Jews and gentiles differ. One group is through faith the other is by faith. This is all merged into one new man.

As a person of limited mentality I can not explain what I just said. That does not prevent me from looking into differences in metabolic pathways in different organs in human anatomy. Thus I try and listen to others that do not think like me. Can we both be right? Maybe. Can we both be wrong? Maybe. We allow others to evaluate what is said.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Is that what it means? Can you please show exactly how you get that from the text?

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (ESV)

It is saying that only those who were appointed to eternal life believed. That is, the only ones who believed were appointed or ordained to believe. At a minimum, it means there was something from outside of them that influenced to believe, but that points to the very same idea—election.

No bro. Look at the text. Even start at the beginning of Acts. Those gentiles heard what was going on in Jerusalem. They weren't just hanging around some Jewish people. They wanted to hear what these followers of Jesus were saying.

So when some not all of the Jewish people started shouting Paul down, Paul quoted Isaiah.

See it this way,

Lk.14:16-17, 24 NKJV
A certain man gave a great supper and invited many and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.
But they all with one accord began to make excuses...

Some had more important things to do,.....Gotta see my new property,,,,,, Gotta try out my new cows...... Just married

For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’ 

He filled his house with the weak,

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christs' sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2Cor.12:10

 

[Free]

No bro. Look at the text.

I have given the text. That’s all that is needed—just that verse. That verse clearly says that the only ones who believed were “appointed” or “ordained” to believe. You have not yet addressed the use of that word in that context.

Even start at the beginning of Acts.

Why? What does it have to do with Paul and Barnabas in Antioch of Pisidia?

Those gentiles heard what was going on in Jerusalem. They weren't just hanging around some Jewish people. They wanted to hear what these followers of Jesus were saying.

You do realize this is some 15 years after Pentecost, after the start of Acts, yes?

So when some not all of the Jewish people started shouting Paul down, Paul quoted Isaiah.

And that shows what, exactly?

See it this way,

Lk.14:16-17, 24 NKJV
A certain man gave a great supper and invited many and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.
But they all with one accord began to make excuses...

Some had more important things to do,.....Gotta see my new property,,,,,, Gotta try out my new cows...... Just married

For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’ 

He filled his house with the weak,

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christs' sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2Cor.12:10

What does this have to do with Acts 13:48?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I have given the text. That’s all that is needed—just that verse. That verse clearly says that the only ones who believed were “appointed” or “ordained” to believe. You have not yet addressed the use of that word in that context.

You have the cart before the horse, He isn't saying they were "appointed to believe."

He saying believers are destined for a certain end. They are appointed to eternal life for believing in Jesus.

as many as had been appointed to eternal life....believed.

God says this all through the Book, from Genesis to Revelation, he pre-ordained before the universe as we know it came into existence.

Why? What does it have to do with Paul and Barnabas in Antioch of Pisidia?

Because those gentiles rejoiced that the Jewish scriptures made mention of them.

You do realize this is some 15 years after Pentecost, after the start of Acts, yes?

Yes I do. Please remember Gods' disciples were being persecuted and they were on foot. They did not have the resources we have today. The gentiles were waiting to hear the words of this apostle.

And that shows what, exactly?

That prophecy is being fulfilled right before their eyes. You think that's inconsequential? How about this,

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world Mt.24:14 NKJV

I find that a bold claim and guess what? It came to pass.

What does this have to do with Acts 13:48?

It has to do with how some people when asked to come told God no because they had more important things to do.
Then, God decided to fill up the hall with the nobodies.

Then God decided? God was waiting for a response and then decided? Really?

 

[eddif]

Matthew 12:20 kjv
20. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

How does this fit? I wish I totally knew.
Let us all rest.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Matthew 12:20 kjv
20. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

How does this fit? I wish I totally knew.
Let us all rest.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

He quoting the old Testament

A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. Isa.43:2

When we are bent to the point of breaking or the candle is about to go out...He rose above the dead,

For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Heb.12:3

 

[brightfame52]

Adam’s death was physical.
In Christ is eternal spiritual life. You must be born again.

Hell is eternal death? Second death.


Mississippi redneck
eddif

Adams death was more than psychical, in fact he didnt die physically until centuries later. He died to God immediately, and men in him also.

 

[brightfame52]

Sure it does. Every sinner dies for his own sin. God forbids penal substitution.

Tulip is the Gospel, and penal substitution as it pertained to Christ dying for the sins of Gods people is taught. 1 Cor 15:3-4. So please dont deny penal substitution here in this forum. Take that somewhere else, for Christ substitutionary death is foundational to Christianity and its Blasphemous to deny it. Consider this a warning friend

 

[eddif]

Tulip is the Gospel, and penal substitution as it pertained to Christ dying for the sins of Gods people is taught. 1 Cor 15:3-4. So please dont deny penal substitution here in this forum. Take that somewhere else, for Christ substitutionary death is foundational to Christianity and its Blasphemous to deny it. Consider this a warning friend

Not having have all these terms before I am slow getting able to deal with your thoughts.

IMHO I am in a transition period. Sin no longer has dominion over me, but I still see sins that are wrong. At the last trump I will be changed more. I am awaiting the ressurrection, and the final work ofJesus.

It appears to my simple redneck brain and reading Wikipedia that:
You are ready for heaven right now. That total depravity from least sin to worst sin has been dealt with. That every thing is fixed.

I on the other hand, still am battling powers in high places.

You are free to comment.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Tulip is the Gospel, and penal substitution as it pertained to Christ dying for the sins of Gods people is taught. 1 Cor 15:3-4. So please dont deny penal substitution here in this forum. Take that somewhere else, for Christ substitutionary death is foundational to Christianity and its Blasphemous to deny it. Consider this a warning friend

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1Cor.15:3

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 1Cor.11:23

Ought not Christ to have suffered these thingsand to enter into his glory? Lk.24:26

contradiction of sinners against himself, Heb.12:3

Suffering betrayal. Suffering contradiction against himself.

Against Jehovah, and against His Messiah: Psa.2:2 YLT[/B]

 

[JLB]

Act 13:47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (ESV)

How many were saved?

It doesn’t say how many were saved.


However, as to my point they heard the Gospel, and received it.

Read the context.


God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’
And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:
I will give you the sure mercies of David.’
Therefore He also says in another Psalm:
You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.’
“For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;
and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. Beware therefore, lest what has been spoken in the prophets come upon you:
‘Behold, you despisers,
Marvel and perish!
For I work a work in your days,
A work which you will by no means believe,
Though one were to declare it to you.’ ”
So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us:
I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region.
Acts 13:33-49


Do you believe a person can be saved apart from hearing and believing the Gospel?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Repent
Believe in the work of Jesus
Receive the Holy Spirit to have power to be a witness

Amen sir.

 

[JLB]

ok...from a human point of view, this is true.

It’s scripture, so it’s God’s point of view.

 

[JLB]

It is a command to believe, not a choice. They already do not want to believe.30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

People either obey the command or they don’t.

 

[JLB]

Yes man is born dead in sin. my point exactly.

Ok. So man must hear and believe the Gospel to be saved.

 

[JLB]

Thats like saying the Gospel of Gods Grace is not scriptural

God’s word is scripture.

TULIP is from man.

 

[JLB]

Biblical election is concerning 4 things. Individual election for salvation is taught.Your dispensational ideas contradict Romans, Ephesians, and Galatians

Biblical election is about purpose not salvation.


The purpose was God chose the Jews, specifically Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, David to be the lineage of the Messiah.


Jacob not Esau.




JLB

 

[Iconoclast]

Biblical election is about purpose not salvation.


The purpose was God chose the Jews, specifically Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, David to be the lineage of the Messiah.


Jacob not Esau.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

JLB

Newsflash; Gentiles grafted in to the Israel of God;
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
rom2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Gal3
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female:
for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[JLB]

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Yes, children of “promise” refers directly to Isaac rather than Ismael, who were both sons of Abraham.


God had “chosen” Isaac rather that Ishmael to be the lineage of the Messiah.





JLB

 

[Free]

It doesn’t say how many were saved.


However, as to my point they heard the Gospel, and received it.

Read the context.


God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’
And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:
I will give you the sure mercies of David.’
Therefore He also says in another Psalm:
You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.’
“For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;
and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. Beware therefore, lest what has been spoken in the prophets come upon you:
‘Behold, you despisers,
Marvel and perish!
For I work a work in your days,
A work which you will by no means believe,
Though one were to declare it to you.’ ”
So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us:
I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region.
Acts 13:33-49


Do you believe a person can be saved apart from hearing and believing the Gospel?

You seemed to have missed the point. We are told how many are saved: "as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." They all heard the gospel, but only those who were appointed to believe, believed.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, children of “promise” refers directly to Isaac rather than Ismael, who were both sons of Abraham.


God had “chosen” Isaac rather that Ishmael to be the lineage of the Messiah.

Your blindness is still there. I will offer you eyesite here;
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, the word used for physical descendants[ sperma Abraham}
these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed....the word used here is[ teknon, not sperma]
children of the promise, not physical but spiritual Children...check it out!

Romans 9:8

Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament
This means it is not the children [teknon] of the flesh who are children [teknon] of God, but the children teknon of the promise are counted as descendants [sperma.]
​

8 houtos eimi ou the ho children teknon of the ho flesh sarx who houtos are children teknon of ho God theos, but alla the ho children teknon of the ho promise epangelia are counted logizomai as eis descendants sperma.

Romans 9:8

Young's Literal Translation

8 that is, the children of the flesh -- these [are] not children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for seed;​

Romans 9:8

Amplified Bible
​8 That is, it is not the children of the body [Abraham’s natural descendants] who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are counted as [Abraham’s true] descendants.

Romans 9:8

Disciples’ Literal New Testament

​

8 That is, these children of the flesh are not children of God, but the children of [a] the promise are counted for seed.