Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

  • Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?

    Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic

    https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?

    Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject

    https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042

Is TULIP biblical?

What are the Doctrines Of Grace?

The phrase “doctrines of grace” is used as a replacement for the term “Calvinism,” in order to remove the attention from John Calvin and instead focus on how the specific points are biblically and theologically sound. The phrase “doctrines of grace” describes the soteriological doctrines that are unique to Reformed theology, which is Calvinistic. These doctrines are summarized with the acronym TULIP. The T in TULIP stands for Total Depravity, U for Unconditional Election, L for Limited Atonement, I for Irresistible Grace, and P for Perseverance of the Saints.


Reformed Christians believe that all five of the doctrines of grace are derived directly from the Scripture and that the acronym TULIP accurately describes the Bible’s teaching on soteriology—the doctrine of salvation. The following is a brief description of each of the letters in the acronym TULIP.

Total Depravity - As a result of Adam’s fall, the entire human race is affected; all of Adam’s descendants are spiritually dead in their trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1, 5). Calvinists are quick to point out that this does not mean that all people are as bad as they could be. Rather, this doctrine says that, as a result of man’s fall in Adam, all people are radically depraved from the inside and that their depravity affects every area of their lives.

Unconditional Election - Because man is dead in sin, he is unable (and stubbornly unwilling) to initiate a saving response to God. In light of this, God, from eternity past, mercifully elected a particular people unto salvation (Ephesians 1:4–6). These people are comprised of men and women from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation (Revelation 5:9). Election and predestination are unconditional; they are not contingent on man’s response to God’s grace (Romans 8:29–30; 9:11; Ephesians 1:11–12) because man, in his fallen state, is both unable and unwilling to respond favorably to Christ’s offer of salvation.

Limited Atonement - The purpose of Christ’s atoning death was not to merely make men savable and thus leaving the salvation of humanity contingent on man’s response to God’s grace. Rather, the purpose of the atonement was to secure the redemption of a particular people (Ephesians 1:4–6; John 17:9). All whom God has elected and Christ died for will be saved (John 6:37–40, 44). Many Reformed Christians prefer the term “particular redemption” as they feel that this phrase more accurately captures the essence of this doctrine. It is not so much that Christ’s atonement is limited as it is particular, intended for a specific people—God’s elect.

Irresistible Grace - God has elected a particular people to be the recipients of Christ’s atoning work. These people are drawn to Christ by a grace that is irresistible. When God calls, man responds (John 6:37, 44; 10:16). This teaching does not mean that God saves men against their will. Rather, God changes the heart of the rebellious unbeliever so that he now desires to repent and be saved. God’s elect will be drawn to Him, and that grace that draws them is, in fact, irresistible. God replaces the unbeliever’s heart of stone with a heart of flesh (Ezekiel 36:26). In Reformed theology, regeneration precedes faith.

Perseverance of the Saints - The particular people God has elected and drawn to Himself through the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith. None of those whom God has elected will be lost; they are eternally secure in Him (John 10:27–29; Romans 8:29–30; Ephesians 1:3–14). Some Reformed theologians prefer to use the term “Preservation of the Saints” as they believe that this choice of words more accurately describes how God is directly responsible for the preservation of His elect. It is clear in Scripture that Christ continues to intercede for His people (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25). This continues to provide believers with the assurance that those who belong to Christ are eternally His.

These five doctrines together form the doctrines of grace, so called because they summarize the salvation experience as the result of the grace of God, who acts independently of man’s will. No effort or act of man can add to the grace of God to bring about the redemption of the soul. For truly it is “by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9).
 
Not what I really wanted.
But


If it includes the (TULIP is the Gospel of Grace). In specific words. And you will quote the paragraph for all to see.
Post it.

So this is a learned statement? I hope it is not AI.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
I will give you this to start:


Tip Toe Through the TULIP



The doctrines of grace are the best biblical doctrines you will ever come to know or embrace – Jesus Christ’s Gospel is all of grace. These doctrines speak of God’s infinite love and mercy to His people. It is here that God alone draws the sinner in, changes their heart, and gives them new life as a new creature “in the Beloved,” who is Jesus Christ (See the entire book of Ephesians).

There are only two views concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ. First, there is what the church calls Calvinism, or more precisely speaking, the doctrines of grace. Then, the second, we find varying degrees of unbelief. These are your two choice for or against the Gospel found in Scripture.





The essential doctrines of grace concerning salvation, which the Reformers and Puritans (and all good Christians) cling to, are summed up in the acronym T.U.L.I.P.


Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints



A tulip is a flower with intertwining petals, without which, would not make up a complete flower. If one petal is removed from the flower, it ceases, for all intents and purposes, to be complete. It is the same with the essential doctrines of salvation. Each doctrine is essentially linked to the others. If one of them is removed, then the whole system falls into absurdity and contradiction. (In this way, there would be no such thing as a 3 point Calvinist or a 4 point Calvinist (like Amyraldianism)–it would be better to say they are confused Arminians.) Using the term “Calvinist” as a mirror to the doctrines of grace is over-simplifying the theological position. Calvinism is made up of much more than simply 5 points on salvation. Too many Christians today use the term “Calvinism” to speak only of the doctrines of the 5 points. Rather, they ought simply to refer to the 5 points as “the doctrines of grace.” Calvinism is a much broader term used specifically of those who hold to Calvin’s Institutes, and more precisely, of those who hold Calvin’s view of the sacraments. Calvinism houses the entirety of the Institutes of the Christian Religion, especially Calvin’s view on the means of grace.

T.U.L.I.P. concerns the essential doctrines of God’s grace which pertain to the salvation of God’s chosen people through the atoning work of Jesus Christ. The Puritans were keenly aware that if the essentials of the Christian faith were overthrown or changed, then true religious faith disappeared. It would no longer be the faith of the Bible. It would not longer be the doctrines of the Bible. It would no longer be Christianity. Rather, it would be the vanity of someone’s unbiblical and unexegetical mind, heresy which would infiltrate and hurt the people of God.

The linked pages are a summary of the doctrines of grace which the Puritans consistently relied upon in their preaching and teaching. Below, first there is a summary of the doctrines contained in TULIP, and then Puritans quotations on those individual doctrines. Use the links to the right (or below) to jump quickly to the proper place you would like to go to.

Elisha Coles – The Sovereignty of God

TULIP, The Fairest Flower in God’s Garden – by Dr. John Gerstner

The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination – by Loraine Boettner

Calvinism and TULIP in the Middle Ages

Assurance of Grace and Salvation: What It Is; How To Attain It; Why More Do Not Enjoy It by William Plumer

Effectual Calling by Thomas White

Conviction and Conversion – by Dr. William S. Plumer

Repentance and Conversion – by Dr. William S. Plumer

Faith and Conversion – by Dr. William S. Plumer

Jesus Died for Aliens on Planet Zeno – by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

The Doctrines of Grace – by Christopher Blum

The Perseverance of the Saints – by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

The Reformed Faith – by Loraine Boettner

For Whom Did Christ Die? – by Dr. Charles Hodge

The Five Points of Calvinism – by W.J. Seaton

The Five Points of Grace – by Dr. William Twisse

Propositions and Principles of Divinity – by Dr. Theodore Beza

Justification by Grace Alone – by Dr. John Calvin

Tip-Toe Through TULIP – by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

Why I am A Calvinist – by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

Total Depravity – compiled by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

Unconditional Election – compiled by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

Limited Atonement – compiled by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

Irresistible Grace – compiled by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

Perseverance of the Saints – compiled by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

 
Faith comes by hearing God’s word.

A person must believe the word and therefore obey the word in order to become saved.


Again, the word of faith Noah received from God was to build the Ark.


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17



Again, if you believe that a person becomes saved, regenerated first before they hear and believe the Gospel, then please tells us how they are saved before they ever hear about Jesus Christ.




JLB
Hearing Gods Word comes from Regeneration.
 
The substitutionary death of Christ, which is called The Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement
was invented at the time of the reformation.
It DID NOT exist before.
Do you deny the penal substitutionary death of Christ ? If you do, please dont promote it her.
 
It has existed all through the OT.
Really?


Penal substitution (sometimes, esp. in older writings, called forensic theory)[1][2] is a theory of the atonement within Protestant Christian theology, which declares that Christ, voluntarily submitting to God the Father's plan, was punished (penalized) in the place of sinners (substitution), thus satisfying the demands of justice and propitiation, so God can justly forgive sins making us at one with God (atonement). It began with the German Reformation leader Martin Luther and continued to develop within the Calvinist tradition[1][2][3][4][5] as a specific understanding of substitutionary atonement. The penal model teaches that the substitutionary nature of Jesus' death is understood in the sense of a substitutionary fulfilment of legal demands for the offenses of sins.



It was developed during the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century,[3][7][1][2][4][5][8][9] being advocated by Martin Luther[note 1] and John Calvin.[10] It was more concretely formulated by the Reformed theologian Charles Hodge (1797–1878).



source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_substitution#:~:text=It was developed during the,Hodge (1797–1878).
*******************************************

#5 The Penal Substitutionary Theory​

Penal Substitutionary Atonement is a development of the Reformation. The Reformers, Specifically Calvin and Luther, took Anselm’s Satisfaction theory and modified it slightly. They added a more legal (or forensic) framework into this notion of the cross as satisfaction. The result is that within Penal Substitution, Jesus Christ dies to satisfy God’s wrath against human sin. Jesus is punished (penal) in the place of sinners (substitution) in order to satisfy the justice of God and the legal demand of God to punish sin. In the light of Jesus’ death, God can now forgive the sinner because Jesus Christ has been punished in the place of the sinner, in this way meeting the retributive requirements of God’s justice. This legal balancing of the ledgers is at the heart of this theory, which claims that Jesus died for legal satisfaction. It’s also worth mentioning that in this theory the notion of imputed righteousness is postulated.



source: Stephen D. Morrison
 
While we are waiting.
I would like to start trying to use TULIP in normal ways.
I am convinced Total Depravity fits the reason for the flood.

There are several times in the Bible when the benefits were limited to the physical. This would mean Limited Atonement.
2 Chronicles 7:14-19 comes to mind.

Any others care to comment?

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
I went back to post 370

I saw unconditional election. Wonder what Jesus Wanted? That is a loaded question.
Think why parables.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
While we are waiting.
I would like to start trying to use TULIP in normal ways.
I am convinced Total Depravity fits the reason for the flood.

There are several times in the Bible when the benefits were limited to the physical. This would mean Limited Atonement.
2 Chronicles 7:14-19 comes to mind.

Any others care to comment?

Mississippi redneck
eddif
You don't understand TULIP eddif.
I'll explain it to you and then you could check on this on the internet....

T TOTAL DEPRAVITY
Total depravity does not mean that man is depraved.
Every Christian believes that man is depraved.
The reformed believe that man is TOTALLY depraved...so depraved that he has no capability of perceiving God...
no way of receiving any of God's grace.

U UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
This means that there are no conditions to becoming a child of God.
This is because we have nothing to do with our salvation.
God chooses who will be saved and who will be damned.
The reformed believe this because they believe man has no free will and that God is sovereign and that only HE can decide who will be saved, and we cannot even know why.

L LIMITED ATONEMENT
This is such a radical idea that even some calvinists do not believe it.
They are called 4 point calvinists.
Limited atonement states that Jesus' sacrifice was not sufficient to save all of mankind,
but only the few that God Himself chooses.

I IRRESISTIBLE GRACE
§Once God decides who will be saved, that person cannot resist God's grace to save him.
This is because man has no free will.

P PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
The saints are those that God has saved.
Since it is God that saved them, He will save them to the end of their life.
They cannot become unsaved. This can be known as Eternal Security or once saved always saved;
although there are slight differences.

All of the doctrine behind the reformed beliefs rely on two facts:
Man is totally depraved and unable to come to God or to even know of His existance.
Man has no free will so God must do everything for him...including predestinating all of his actions.
 
You don't understand TULIP eddif.
I'll explain it to you and then you could check on this on the internet....

T TOTAL DEPRAVITY
Total depravity does not mean that man is depraved.
Every Christian believes that man is depraved.
The reformed believe that man is TOTALLY depraved...so depraved that he has no capability of perceiving God...
no way of receiving any of God's grace.

U UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
This means that there are no conditions to becoming a child of God.
This is because we have nothing to do with our salvation.
God chooses who will be saved and who will be damned.
The reformed believe this because they believe man has no free will and that God is sovereign and that only HE can decide who will be saved, and we cannot even know why.

L LIMITED ATONEMENT
This is such a radical idea that even some calvinists do not believe it.
They are called 4 point calvinists.
Limited atonement states that Jesus' sacrifice was not sufficient to save all of mankind,
but only the few that God Himself chooses.

I IRRESISTIBLE GRACE
§Once God decides who will be saved, that person cannot resist God's grace to save him.
This is because man has no free will.

P PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
The saints are those that God has saved.
Since it is God that saved them, He will save them to the end of their life.
They cannot become unsaved. This can be known as Eternal Security or once saved always saved;
although there are slight differences.

All of the doctrine behind the reformed beliefs rely on two facts:
Man is totally depraved and unable to come to God or to even know of His existance.
Man has no free will so God must do everything for him...including predestinating all of his actions.
I thought it says he works in us to will and do of his good pleasure.
Romans 7 tells once Christ died we were delivered from the law of death to be married to Jesus. The law is spiritual and to be used lawfully.

One minute you agree with me and now you flip?

If I need to be quiet I can. The internet is not my source.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Really?


Penal substitution (sometimes, esp. in older writings, called forensic theory)[1][2] is a theory of the atonement within Protestant Christian theology, which declares that Christ, voluntarily submitting to God the Father's plan, was punished (penalized) in the place of sinners (substitution), thus satisfying the demands of justice and propitiation, so God can justly forgive sins making us at one with God (atonement). It began with the German Reformation leader Martin Luther and continued to develop within the Calvinist tradition[1][2][3][4][5] as a specific understanding of substitutionary atonement. The penal model teaches that the substitutionary nature of Jesus' death is understood in the sense of a substitutionary fulfilment of legal demands for the offenses of sins.



It was developed during the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century,[3][7][1][2][4][5][8][9] being advocated by Martin Luther[note 1] and John Calvin.[10] It was more concretely formulated by the Reformed theologian Charles Hodge (1797–1878).



source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_substitution#:~:text=It was developed during the,Hodge (1797–1878).
*******************************************

#5 The Penal Substitutionary Theory​

Penal Substitutionary Atonement is a development of the Reformation. The Reformers, Specifically Calvin and Luther, took Anselm’s Satisfaction theory and modified it slightly. They added a more legal (or forensic) framework into this notion of the cross as satisfaction. The result is that within Penal Substitution, Jesus Christ dies to satisfy God’s wrath against human sin. Jesus is punished (penal) in the place of sinners (substitution) in order to satisfy the justice of God and the legal demand of God to punish sin. In the light of Jesus’ death, God can now forgive the sinner because Jesus Christ has been punished in the place of the sinner, in this way meeting the retributive requirements of God’s justice. This legal balancing of the ledgers is at the heart of this theory, which claims that Jesus died for legal satisfaction. It’s also worth mentioning that in this theory the notion of imputed righteousness is postulated.



source: Stephen D. Morrison
I am not going by wikipedia, but by scripture itself. The teaching is there since the OT.
5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.

7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
 
While we are waiting.
I would like to start trying to use TULIP in normal ways.
I am convinced Total Depravity fits the reason for the flood.

There are several times in the Bible when the benefits were limited to the physical. This would mean Limited Atonement.
2 Chronicles 7:14-19 comes to mind.

Any others care to comment?

Mississippi redneck
eddif
Here is one more source that defends Calvinism?Tulip Truths as the Gospel,

 
Pride blinds many.

Pride hates that the Lord is sovereign and in control of all things.

Pride wants to be the center of salvation. "I did that, I made that choice".
 
Here is one more source that defends Calvinism?Tulip Truths as the Gospel,


I have already defended Calvinism.

This article says that Calvin did not Teach TULIP

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
lol
The truth of scripture does not need a defense, it just has to be proclaimed.
Philippians 1:17 kjv
17. But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Back
Top