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Is TULIP biblical?


I have already defended Calvinism.

This article says that Calvin did not Teach TULIP

Mississippi redneck
eddif
Eddif,
John Calvin taught what TULIP stands for. TULIP. It's an acronym.
What the article means is that he did NOT invent the acronym TULIP.

This was invented to make it easier to remember what the reformed believe.

TULIP was invented as an acronym in the 1930's I THINK. I'm not sure.
But it's a recent acronym.
 
Eddif,
John Calvin taught what TULIP stands for. TULIP. It's an acronym.
What the article means is that he did NOT invent the acronym TULIP.

This was invented to make it easier to remember what the reformed believe.

TULIP was invented as an acronym in the 1930's I THINK. I'm not sure.
But it's a recent acronym.
Source?

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Source?

Mississippi redneck
eddif
The source is me.
I've been studying calvinism for over 10 years.
I've accumulated a lot of knowledge.
You can look it up yourself. I'm sure it'll say it on google.
HOW DID THE ACRONYM T.U.L.I.P. BEGIN.
 
Eddif,
John Calvin taught what TULIP stands for. TULIP. It's an acronym.
What the article means is that he did NOT invent the acronym TULIP.

This was invented to make it easier to remember what the reformed believe.

TULIP was invented as an acronym in the 1930's I THINK. I'm not sure.
But it's a recent acronym.
There are many who are not reformed that believe TULIP.
 
Can anyone here explain how a person becomes saved without ever hearing the gospel message of salvation ?



The Bible teaches us that one must hear and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
 
There are many who are not reformed that believe TULIP.

I have never found anyone who believes a person first must be saved, born again, regenerated, then later on they believe the Gospel, except a Calvinist.


It seems strange that a person who reads and studies scripture could ever come to this conclusion.
 
Hearing Gods Word comes from Regeneration.


Only those who hear and believe the Gospel are saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


You nor anyone else has ever provided a scripture that says a person is saved before they believe.



JLB
 
Irresistible Grace

….These (the recipients of Christ’s atoning work) people are drawn to Christ by a grace that is irresistible.

This is great news! And it is my absolute hope that one day all people will not be able to resist God’s grace. For if God can make His grace irresistible to one, He can do so for another and another until all cease resisting His grace.



2. …Rather, God changes the heart of the rebellious unbeliever so that he now desires to repent and be saved.

What a time this will be when the God of all grace extends His grace to all of the heavenlies and of earth. This God of justice, exercises His justice and as the offenders carry out its demands, this time in confinement (lake of fire) serves as a means of God’s irresistible grace to do its amazing work so that all desire to repent and be saved. What fantastic news this is! Maybe the better thing for God to do was to not have Satan play such a negative role and therefore have no need for hell and the lake of fire. But I’m not God so this is irrelevant.
Hi
Are you yet another type of reformed?
Are you saying that eventually ALL will be saved by going thru the lake of fire?

Are you a universalist?
 
Only those who hear and believe the Gospel are saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


You nor anyone else has ever provided a scripture that says a person is saved before they believe.



JLB
Only those who are born of God hear Gods Word Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
 
Can anyone here explain how a person becomes saved without ever hearing the gospel message of salvation ?



The Bible teaches us that one must hear and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
One is saved by the Sovereign Acts and Mercy of Regeneration by the Spirit, without hearing the Gospel Message Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
 
Only those who are born of God hear Gods Word Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
I sent you a nice post responding to the above.
Post 364.

You never replied.
It would be the courteous thing to do.

And, since this is the Calvinism Forum, would You like to define the following words since Iconoclast tells us they're different but won't explain why.
DECREED
ORDAINED
PREDESTINATED
 
I sent you a nice post responding to the above.
Post 364.

You never replied.
It would be the courteous thing to do.

And, since this is the Calvinism Forum, would You like to define the following words since Iconoclast tells us they're different but won't explain why.
DECREED
ORDAINED
PREDESTINATED
I dont have to reply to all your posts, nobody is obligated to do that.
 
I sent you a nice post responding to the above.
Post 364.

You never replied.
It would be the courteous thing to do.

And, since this is the Calvinism Forum, would You like to define the following words since Iconoclast tells us they're different but won't explain why.
DECREED
ORDAINED
PREDESTINATED
I posted 8 straight links after responding to you on this. Do not lie and say I did not. You do not intend to learn anything on this ,do you?
 
Eddif,
John Calvin taught what TULIP stands for. TULIP. It's an acronym.
What the article means is that he did NOT invent the acronym TULIP.

This was invented to make it easier to remember what the reformed believe.

TULIP was invented as an acronym in the 1930's I THINK. I'm not sure.
But it's a recent acronym.
all wrong once again
 
You don't understand TULIP eddif.
I'll explain it to you and then you could check on this on the internet....

T TOTAL DEPRAVITY
Total depravity does not mean that man is depraved.
Every Christian believes that man is depraved.
The reformed believe that man is TOTALLY depraved...so depraved that he has no capability of perceiving God...
no way of receiving any of God's grace.

U UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
This means that there are no conditions to becoming a child of God.
This is because we have nothing to do with our salvation.
God chooses who will be saved and who will be damned.
The reformed believe this because they believe man has no free will and that God is sovereign and that only HE can decide who will be saved, and we cannot even know why.

L LIMITED ATONEMENT
This is such a radical idea that even some calvinists do not believe it.
They are called 4 point calvinists.
Limited atonement states that Jesus' sacrifice was not sufficient to save all of mankind,
but only the few that God Himself chooses.

I IRRESISTIBLE GRACE
§Once God decides who will be saved, that person cannot resist God's grace to save him.
This is because man has no free will.

P PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
The saints are those that God has saved.
Since it is God that saved them, He will save them to the end of their life.
They cannot become unsaved. This can be known as Eternal Security or once saved always saved;
although there are slight differences.

All of the doctrine behind the reformed beliefs rely on two facts:
Man is totally depraved and unable to come to God or to even know of His existance.
Man has no free will so God must do everything for him...including predestinating all of his actions.
Here W once again demonstrates she does not know the true teaching, but in her contempt for the doctrine makes yet another caricature instead.
 
Take that to the caring for others forum, this forum is about Calvinism and it can be offensive to others, the Gospel offends some people,
Calvanism is offensive because it teaches God creates people who sin against Him causing permanent separation between God and the sinner which God is then indifferent to.

Now, what kind of Father in Heaven or earthly father would not be heartbroken over a child going astray and want their relationship repaired? No good father but the devil for sure.
Paul even calls it a savor of death to some 2 Cor 2:14-16

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
You don't understand what you're reading.

Paul means to the unrepentant, believers smell like death because believers were being persecured because of their faith. They always have been.
But their sacrifice smells sweet to God and other believers, as Paul is instructing the Corinthians to forgive a repentant sinner. That's the reason Paul gives for his own suffering and says that's why the Messiah suffered,

I wrote that letter in great anguish, with a troubled heart and many tears. I didn’t want to grieve you, but I wanted to let you know how much love I have for you.....Now, however, it is time to forgive and comfort him.....So I urge you now to reaffirm your love for him.....
When you forgive this man, I forgive him, too. And when I forgive whatever needs to be forgiven, I do so with Christ’s authority for your benefit, so that Satan will not outsmart us. For we are familiar with his evil schemes.....But thank God! He has made us his captives and continues to lead us along in Christ’s triumphal procession. Now he uses us to spread the knowledge of Christ everywhere, like a sweet perfume.
2Cor.2:4,7,8,10-11,14 NLT

The evil schemes are the savor of death. The fact that Paul was being persecuted for spreading the gospel of Gods' forgiveness to the repentant is exactly what Calvanism does not teach.

And right in this text, Paul affirms that he is now suffering in a way our Savior did.....for spreading that good news.

Also, please dont promote your message against the substitutionary death of Christ here on this forum. I understand you may not believe in it, which is fine, but its believed in both calvinistic and arminian circles.
Then it should be easy for you to find scripture supporting it. I think we've covered everything.
I won't expect any sensible eespinse to the text you cited.
 
I sent you a nice post responding to the above.
Post 364.

You never replied.
It would be the courteous thing to do.

And, since this is the Calvinism Forum, would You like to define the following words since Iconoclast tells us they're different but won't explain why.
DECREED
ORDAINED
PREDESTINATED
I answered you on this several times.I posted several links in a row, I will repost them so you have no excuse and cannot play dumb!

The Decree of God​

God’s decree is his eternal plan, whereby, according to his decretive will and for his glory, he foreordained everything that comes to pass.

8 Characteristics​

The following list features the major characteristics of the decree of God:1

  1. Single: “the counsel of his will” (Eph. 1:11)
  2. Comprehensive: “works all things” (Eph. 1:11), including the ordination of the good actions of people (Eph. 2:10) as well as sinful acts (Prov. 16:4; Acts 2:23; 4:27–28), events that are contingent from a human perspective (Gen. 45:8; 50:20; Prov. 16:33), the means and ends of acts (Ps. 119:89–91; Eph. 1:4; 2 Thess. 2:13), and the length (Job 14:5; Ps. 39:4) and place of a person’s life (Acts 17:26)2
  3. Unconditional and not based on outside influences: “according to the counsel of his will” (Eph. 1:11; see also Acts 2:23; Rom. 8:29–30; Eph. 2:8; 1 Pet. 1:2)
  4. Eternal: “who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began” (2 Tim. 1:9; see also Eph. 1:4)
  5. Effectual: “declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose’” (Isa. 46:10; see also Ps. 33:11; Prov. 19:21)
  6. Immutable: “he is unchangeable, and who can turn him back?” (Job 23:13–14; see also Ps. 33:11; Isa. 14:24; 46:10; Acts 2:23)
  7. Ordaining sin and controlling its effects: “God gave them up . . .” (Rom. 1:24, 26, 28; see also Pss. 78:29; 106:15; Acts 14:16; 17:30; Rom. 3:25)
  8. Purpose of the decree: to manifest and bring praise to God’s glory (Rom. 11:33–36; Eph. 1:6, 12, 14; Rev. 4:11)
www.crossway.org

8 Characteristics of the Decree of God

God’s decree is his eternal plan, whereby, according to his decretive will and for his glory, he foreordained everything that comes to pass.
 

From John Samson

God Ordains ‘Whatsoever Comes to Pass’

Posted on June 22, 2017
Do you believe that God ordains whatsoever comes to pass? In this brief clip from his teaching series Chosen By God, R.C. Sproul explains how this question distinguishes between atheists and theists.

Transcript
The third chapter the Westminster Confession begins with these words: “God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and immutably—that is without possibility of changing it—God did freely and immutably ordain whatsoever comes to pass…” semicolon.
Let me take a breath there at the point of the semicolon. “God from all eternity according to his own holy and wise counsel did freely and immutably ordained or foreordain whatsoever comes to pass…” I paused at that point in the seminary classroom, and I said to my students, “how many of you believe that statement?”
You have to understand this was a Presbyterian seminary, so these fellows were pretty well steeped in the Augustinian tradition.
And I got like a 70% vote there, that large number believed it. I said, “okay, how many of you don’t believe that statement?”
And 30 or so hands went in the air.
And I said, “fine. Now let me ask another question.” I said, “without fear of recriminations, nobody’s going to jump all over you; we just would like to know. Feel free to state your position. How many of you would call yourselves atheists?”
And nobody put their hand up, and I went into my Lieutenant Columbo routine. “There’s just one thing here I can’t understand,” I said.
And looked at those thirty who had raised their hand. I said, “do you mind if I ask you a personal question?”
I said, “I can’t figure out why those of you who raised your hand saying you did not believe this statement didn’t raise your hand when I asked if you were atheists.”
And they looked at me with a mixture of puzzlement, with the same kind of looks I’m seeing in your eyes here today.
I was saying because if you don’t believe this statement, you understand that fundamentally at the bottom line you’re an atheist. And that was about the most outrageous thing they ever heard in their lives.
I said, “well, let’s understand that this statement that I’ve just read that ‘God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass’ is not a statement that is unique to Calvinism or to Presbyterianism. It doesn’t distinguish the Reformed tradition from other traditions. It doesn’t even distinguish Christians from Jews or from Muslims. This statement here distinguishes theists from atheists. And they were still puzzled as I continued this harangue. And so don’t you see that if there’s anything that happens in this world outside the foreordination of God—that if there’s no sense in which God is ordaining whatsoever comes to pass—then at whatever point something happens outside the foreordination of God it is, therefore, happening outside of the sovereignty of God.
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What Does Decree Mean? A Biblical Definition of Decree​

LAST UPDATED ON: AUGUST 14, 2015 AT 10:17 AM
AUGUST 14, 2015 BY JACK WELLMAN
What does the Bible mean by “decree?” How is it used in the Bible and what is the biblical definition of decree?

A Secular Definition of Decree​

To make a decree is to have an authoritative order having the force of law. It could be the judgment of a court of equity as well as being an official order, edict, or decision, as that of a church, government, court, or by God and is something that is or seems to be foreordained and is unbreakable. Decrees are typically enforced and if not upheld, those who break decrees are punished and there could be legal consequences with the severity of the punishment equal to that of the level of whatever the decree prohibits. One example of a decree is that in most nations, the citizens have to pay taxes and this is completely compulsory.

A Governmental Decree​

Governments often declare decrees that are administered for the entire population where the government has the authority to create them and order them as well as enforce them and for those who refuse to obey those decrees, they are subject to the judgments of the governmental authorities. For example, in ancient Judea “a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered” (Luke 2:1). This decree commanded by Caesar Augustus was mandatory and was like a census for the purposes of taxing the population. The local citizens had to return to their place of origin or birth so that taxes could be levied and the number of citizens could rightly be ascertained. The Roman government didn’t take lightly to anyone refusing to follow the decrees of Caesar. This follows what Solomon wrote about God that “By me kings reign, and rulers decree what is just” (Prov 8:15).
Your-decrees-are-very

God’s Decree​

God has been working for thousands of years on His plan or decree of redemption for mankind, particularly those who submit to God in repentance and faith. This has been hidden for thousands of years but became crystal clear at the cross of Christ where He shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins. In writing about this mystery, Paul declared “Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory” (1st Cor 2:6-8). This is why Jesus said “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:24). They didn’t know what they were actually doing and so if Christ hadn’t ask the Father to forgive them for this great sin done in ignorance, they could not have been forgiven for it. Ignorance is no excuse for sin.

Disaster Decreed​

God Himself declares or gives Jeremiah this decree for the disobedient nation of Israel and of Judah “The Lord of hosts, who planted you, has decreed disaster against you, because of the evil that the house of Israel and the house of Judah have done, provoking me to anger by making offerings to Baal” (Jer 11:17). We might think this is harsh but love is equal to discipline for every son and daughter God loves He also disciples (Prov 3:12; Heb 12:6). The opposite of love is not hate; it is indifference. This is why the psalmist wrote “Your decrees are very trustworthy; holiness befits your house, O Lord, forevermore” (Psalm 93:5) and “he established them forever and ever; he gave a decree, and it shall not pass away” (Psalm 148:6). If God punished the nations of Israel and Judah for their disobedience, what makes us think that He won’t do the same for any nation that turns its back on God?

Unrighteous Decrees​

God knows the tendencies of the human heart and so did Paul in writing “Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them” (Rom 1:32). This shows that those who sin not only love their sin but the give their hearty approval of those who do. God says of such people “Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees, and the writers who keep writing oppression, to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right, that widows may be their spoil, and that they may make the fatherless their prey” (Isaiah 10:1-2). That happened in ancient Israel and it is still happening today around the world but God has said “This is the wicked man’s portion from God, the heritage decreed for him by God” (Job 20:29).

Conclusion​

God has decreed that through Jesus Christ we can be forgiven of our sins and be declared righteous in His sight (2nd Cor 5:21) if we repent and trust in the only name given to us where we can be saved (Acts 4:12). Otherwise, God has also decreed disaster for those who refuse to humble themselves and that day of reckoning is coming, either after the person dies (Heb 9:27) or when Christ returns (Rev 20:12-15), and there is nothing you can do about it or to change it for God declares “for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose’” (Isaiah 46:9-10).

Article by Jack Wellman​

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Blind Chance or Intelligent Design available on Amazon.
 
https://www.wrs.edu/assets/docs/Courses/Theology_2/Chapter_7--Gods_Decrees_and_Providence.pdf
It is important to realize that while God is sovereign over all events, even sinful events, the actual sin arises in the heart of the free moral creature. God cannot sin, nor can he tempt his creatures to sin (Jas 1:13-15). Theologians distinguish two wills in God: his decretive will, by which he has foreordained whatever comes to pass, and his preceptive will, in which he states the laws he commands us to keep. These sometimes are called God’s “revealed will” vs. his “secret will.”Also very good is the classic work by Francis Turretin, Institutes of Elenctic Theology, Topic 3, Question 15: “May the will be properly distinguished into the will of decree and of precept, good purpose (eudokias) and good pleasure (euarestias), signified, secret and revealed? We affirm.” (1:220-225)Some assert that God is “responsible” for evil events, either moral or natural, since he ordains all these events. This is inaccurate, since responsibility entails accountability to a superior. God has no superior, hence he is accountable to no one. It is imprecise to say that God is responsible for anything, as though there were a higher moral standard to which he must conform (or as though he must conform to our own sense of morality). God is good, and he defines that goodness by his own nature and will. This point is forcefully made by Gordon H. Clark, Religion, Reason and Revelation (1961), ch. 5, “God and Evil” (republished separately in 1996 by the Trinity Foundation under the title “God and Evil: The Problem Solved”
ibid;
Means of God’s providenceGod is absolute in his sovereignty. He does not depend on any actions of his creatures in order to determine what he will do. His will is not conditional.On the other hand, God does act through means. The Confession speaks of “the liberty or contingency of second causes” (3:1), and that his decrees can “fall out” from second causes “either necessarily, freely, or contingently” (5:2). That is to say, events he has determined may be brought about by what we would call “ordinary means” (1:7). There are various levels of these means:
Necessarily—the event follows as a matter of necessary consequence or law. A rock falls because of gravity. Jonah’s vine dies because the worm attacked it. Rains fall because of the ongoing water cycle.

Freely—the event follows as a matter of free choice under a given set of circumstances. Paul’s thorn in the flesh results in his being humble before God and fellow Christians (a less spiritual person might react to the same circumstance in a totally different way). Pharaoh decides to break his word to Moses (an honest pharaoh would have kept his promise; remember that even though God hardened his heart, Pharaoh acted freely). During the same evangelistic meeting some are converted and others are not; different children from the same family often make opposite moral choices.
Contingently—the event depends upon another event before it can occur. Paul’s travel plans depend on the absence of certain obstacles (e.g., Jews plotting to kill him, prevention by the Holy Spirit, stormy season at sea). All “if . . . then” statements in the Bible (including covenant formulations) point to the results as being contingent events, depending upon the actions of second causes
 
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