Is vegetarianism or veganism against Christianity?

[Hopeful 2]

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 5:17-19)
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matt. 7:22-23)
But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” (Matt. 12:48-50)
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (Jn. 14:15)
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matt.19:17)

I couldn't keep all the laws when I was faking my Christianity.
When I really did turn from sin, God gave me His Holy Ghost to keep me on the narrow path.
My conscience isn't offended at all for having a Twinkie that has been blessed by God.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I am sorry about your mother.

As for Americans, not everyone is a Christian. Food is designed for convenience and $$ in this world. Peaople eat with their eyes.

I agree obesity is a huge issue.

Christians need to do everything in moderation and exercise self-control.

I understand where you are coming from.

For myself, I am on a carnivore diet, if I slip one day and eat a a salad and raviolis, I do not see it as sin.

Grace and peace to you.

I'm on a low carb diet, eating mostly meat, diary and vegetable with as little sugar and gluten as possible, five out of seven meals are simple salad or soup. It is an extremist, immature black-and-white view to have demonized one entire food group and revered another.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I couldn't keep all the laws when I was faking my Christianity.
When I really did turn from sin, God gave me His Holy Ghost to keep me on the narrow path.
My conscience isn't offended at all for having a Twinkie that has been blessed by God.

You may wanna check again. All these are direct quote of Lord Jesus, none is from Moses.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You may wanna check again. All these are direct quote of Lord Jesus, none is from Moses.

As it is written..."Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Col 2:16)
My conscience is clean.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

As it is written..."Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Col 2:16)
My conscience is clean.

Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. (1 Cor. 8:4)

So is mine.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. (1 Cor. 8:4)

So is mine.

Great.
Knowing that an idol is really nothing, so too are the things offered to that nothing.

 

[Free]

All of these are perfectly within the scope of the Scripture.

No, they’re not. You’re letting your personal views and feelings interpret Scripture.

God doesn’t make junk, men do.

Of course, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to proper theology on this matter.

You’re making an invalid argument inflamed by identity politics.

Please stop with arguing to identity politics. It has nothing to do with anything.

The Israelites weren’t born with unique metabolism or autoimmune system, they were not uniquely susceptible to the pathogens and toxins in unclean foods that could make them and everybody else sick. What’s fit or unfit for their consumption is fit or unfit for others’. It is a scientific fact that all the unkosher animals on the lists are predators, scavengers and bottom feeders, they eat all kinds of trash, and those trash goes into your body if you eat them. Pig in particular is known to be a carrier of roundworm trichinella spiralis, the culprit of trichinosis.

And, yet, the Bible clearly teaches that all (edible) animals are given for food and that all such animals are to be considered clean.

That’s not any tradition, that’s reasonable concern for food safety and physical health, it has nothing to do with religious tradition. You’re the one who’s been arguing from a religious perspective, not me.

I guess you missed my point. You are arguing from a religious perspective—your own. Scripture simply does not support your position which is legalism. I'm arguing from Scripture.

This shows your ignorance.

Anymore like that and you’ll be removed from this discussion.

If you eat a real juicy steak, you’d be naturally full with the fibers and proteins, you are very unlikely to overeat compared to eating ice cream.

It is very easy to overeat anything that tastes good. Everyone knows this; it happens all the time, often at Thanksgiving or Christmas or some other family get-together.

The issue is this: you first stated, "You're not sinless as long as you crave twinkies and chips."

To which electedbyhim replied: "Craving twinkies and potato chips are a sin?

That's great stuff."

You responded: "No, it's not. It's a form of idolatry. You're seeking comfort and relief from these highly palatable junks with no or little nutritional value."

So, it seems that overeating is not relevant then, according to you, it's whether or not it has nutritional value that determines if it's idolatry. That seems very subjective.

At the point that such food-like substances don’t exist in nature. Did God edit herbicide resistant genes into GMO crops genomes? Or man? Did God create hydrogenated oil or high fructose corn syrup? Or man?

This is relevant how?

“Every creature of God”, that’s an objective criteria truthful to Scripture, you’re just ignoring it.

I haven't ignored it at all. Anyone who has read my posts can clearly see that I have argued to that several times.

You stated: "You're not sinless as long as you crave twinkies and chips."

I responded, in part:

'At what point does processed food become "unsanctifiable"? How processed must it be? What is the objective criteria and where does the Bible support that criteria?

It there is no objective criteria, then it is entirely subjective, and points to your position not being truthful to Scripture.'

How does your response of "Every creature of God," actually address my questions?

Why not? Junk food are laden with sugar, fat and salt, designed to make you crave for more. Knowingly indulge in these things is a sin. Gluttony isn’t just about overeating, if you crave these highly palatable and tasty treats with excessive calories and no nutritional value over plain meat, vegetables, legume and grains, that’s gluttony too.

Why not? Romans 14 is why not.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. (ESV)

Again, you are going beyond Scripture into legalism.

Why not?

Again, because it is actually sinful for you to tell others that what they're eating is sinful, based on your subjective opinion and not Scripture.

Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. (ESV)

This is not what you're doing.

Rom 14:20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. (ESV)

This is what you are doing. You're confusing wisdom with morality. That is, it isn't wise to eat everything or at least not in moderation, but that doesn't mean it is morally wrong to eat or even crave those things.

Why are you so hostile against a simple dietary guideline laid out in the Bible?

I'm not, so please don't misrepresent my position as being such. As Christians we are supposed to be truthful to Scripture and Scripture plainly states that believers are not bound to follow the dietary guideline laid out in the Bible. Period.

Do you really love pork and shrimp more than God himself?

Of course not. What an utterly silly and pointless question.

Is our body not the temple of the Holy Spirit that we should take care of? If we have the ground to call out other additions such as porn, drug and social media, why not sugar addiction? Why is this one a taboo?

For the plain and obvious fact that something like porn and drugs are clearly against Scripture; they are moral issues. Social media and food are not moral issues.

How are these sugary treats not a unique modern tradition that never existed In history? And don’t throw the book at me like Tenchi, as per 1 Cor. 6:12, all things are lawful, but not all things are beneficial, just because you can doesn’t mean you should, you just don’t know the difference.

No idea what your point is here. Your position doesn't have a verse to stand on.

 

[electedbyHim]

I'm on a low carb diet, eating mostly meat, diary and vegetable with as little sugar and gluten as possible, five out of seven meals are simple salad or soup. It is an extremist, immature black-and-white view to have demonized one entire food group and revered another.

What are you talking about?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No, they’re not. You’re letting your personal views and feelings interpret Scripture.

Says you who've been reading your own antinomian and hypergrace views into the Scripture?

Of course, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to proper theology on this matter.

It has everything to do with this matter, you're just intentionally avoiding it. God didn't sanctify junk food, spoiled food or any unclean food that could cause food poisoning and end up defiling you.

Please stop with arguing to identity politics. It has nothing to do with anything.

Then please stop singling out the Israelites and forming an identity around diet. It is you who brought identity politics into the discussion. You said, quote, "It marked them as the distinct people of God." That's the language of identity politics. It isn't about what's "permitted" and "not permitted" to eat, but what's FIT and UNFIT for human consumption, that's what "kosher" means. You're misinterpreting God's words to push your own narrative.

And, yet, the Bible clearly teaches that all (edible) animals are given for food and that all such animals are to be considered clean.

The bible also clearly teaches that not all are beneficial (1 Cor. 6:12-13), some food are offered to idols (1 Cor. 8:1-4), and don't partake in such foods with idolators (1 Cor. 10:20-21). How so, since all foods are considered "clean" according to you?

I guess you missed my point. You are arguing from a religious perspective—your own. Scripture simply does not support your position which is legalism. I'm arguing from Scripture.

No, I'm arguing from evidence-based science which transcends any boundaries of culture, politics or religion, you're arguing from your own biased view out of church tradition.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Anymore like that and you’ll be removed from this discussion.

Then calm down and go enjoy your steak.

So, it seems that overeating is not relevant then, according to you, it's whether or not it has nutritional value that determines if it's idolatry. That seems very subjective.

No it's not. Low or zero nutritional value in these junk food is a fact, that's not subjective. And because they lack of essential nutrients, the body natrually craves for nutrients that only exist in natural, whole food, not twinkies and chips. And yet if you continue to feast on twinkies and chips, how is that not ignorance? How is that not idolatry?

This is relevant how?

How does your response of "Every creature of God," actually address my questions?

Is "every creature of God" written in 1 Tim. 4:4? Yes or no? You asked for "objective criteria", I give a biblical answer. You don't take it, that's your attitude.

I haven't ignored it at all. Anyone who has read my posts can clearly see that I have argued to that several times.

Yes you have. Twinkies and chips are NOT creatures of God, they are abominations of big corporations.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Again, you are going beyond Scripture into legalism.

You have no understanding of the purpose and meanings of the law. I'd rather be legalistic than lawlessless, as I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Again, because it is actually sinful for you to tell others that what they're eating is sinful, based on your subjective opinion and not Scripture.

The Scripture condemns gluttony, one of the seven deadly sins:

Do not mix with winebibbers,
Or with gluttonous eaters of meat;
For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty,
And drowsiness will clothe a man with rags. (Prov. 23:20-21)

Have you found honey?
Eat only as much as you need,
Lest you be filled with it and vomit. (Prov. 25:16)

I'm not, so please don't misrepresent my position as being such. As Christians we are supposed to be truthful to Scripture and Scripture plainly states that believers are not bound to follow the dietary guideline laid out in the Bible. Period.

If one's "truthful" to the Scripture, why not follow it? Aren't you contradicting yourself? Are you promoting hypocrisy, which Jesus hates?

Of course not. What an utterly silly and pointless question.

Well it seems you are, judging by the way you relentlessly and zealously defending your appatite for those.

For the plain and obvious fact that something like porn and drugs are clearly against Scripture; they are moral issues. Social media and food are not moral issues.

Scripture is not about "moral issues". It's about relationship with God. All those are idols that cause one to commit spiritual adultery, by which you betray God's love and grace. Your moral superiority is alienating people and giving Christianit a bad rep.

No idea what your point is here. Your position doesn't have a verse to stand on.

Really? What does 1 Cor. 6:12-13 say?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Really? What does 1 Cor. 6:12-13 say?

It says ALL THINGS are lawful unto me.
Even Twinkies !

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It says ALL THINGS are lawful unto me.
Even Twinkies !

Then wait for God to destroy both Twinkie and you.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Great.
Knowing that an idol is really nothing, so too are the things offered to that nothing.

It is your god if you partake food sacrificed to it. Action speaks louder than words.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What are you talking about?

You tell me what you were talking about first.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No, they’re not. You’re letting your personal views and feelings interpret Scripture.


Of course, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to proper theology on this matter.


Please stop with arguing to identity politics. It has nothing to do with anything.

And, yet, the Bible clearly teaches that all (edible) animals are given for food and that all such animals are to be considered clean.


I guess you missed my point. You are arguing from a religious perspective—your own. Scripture simply does not support your position which is legalism. I'm arguing from Scripture.


Anymore like that and you’ll be removed from this discussion.


It is very easy to overeat anything that tastes good. Everyone knows this; it happens all the time, often at Thanksgiving or Christmas or some other family get-together.

The issue is this: you first stated, "You're not sinless as long as you crave twinkies and chips."

To which electedbyhim replied: "Craving twinkies and potato chips are a sin?

That's great stuff."

You responded: "No, it's not. It's a form of idolatry. You're seeking comfort and relief from these highly palatable junks with no or little nutritional value."

So, it seems that overeating is not relevant then, according to you, it's whether or not it has nutritional value that determines if it's idolatry. That seems very subjective.


This is relevant how?


I haven't ignored it at all. Anyone who has read my posts can clearly see that I have argued to that several times.

You stated: "You're not sinless as long as you crave twinkies and chips."

I responded, in part:

'At what point does processed food become "unsanctifiable"? How processed must it be? What is the objective criteria and where does the Bible support that criteria?

It there is no objective criteria, then it is entirely subjective, and points to your position not being truthful to Scripture.'

How does your response of "Every creature of God," actually address my questions?


Why not? Romans 14 is why not.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. (ESV)

Again, you are going beyond Scripture into legalism.


Again, because it is actually sinful for you to tell others that what they're eating is sinful, based on your subjective opinion and not Scripture.

Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. (ESV)

This is not what you're doing.

Rom 14:20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. (ESV)

This is what you are doing. You're confusing wisdom with morality. That is, it isn't wise to eat everything or at least not in moderation, but that doesn't mean it is morally wrong to eat or even crave those things.


I'm not, so please don't misrepresent my position as being such. As Christians we are supposed to be truthful to Scripture and Scripture plainly states that believers are not bound to follow the dietary guideline laid out in the Bible. Period.


Of course not. What an utterly silly and pointless question.


For the plain and obvious fact that something like porn and drugs are clearly against Scripture; they are moral issues. Social media and food are not moral issues.


No idea what your point is here. Your position doesn't have a verse to stand on.

Frankly speaking, we all read the same bible, but everyone comes up with their own interpretation through the lens of their personal worldview and experience, that is normal and understandable. The difference between you and I is, though, you test reality with your own interpretation, if it doesn line up, you ignore reality and double down on your interpretation; I test my interpretation with reality, if it doesn line up, I look for another interpretation that does line up. You read the bible and use it as a weapon to hit those who don't agree with you and your doctrine, I read the bible to know God and the world he had created.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you can't even pass this test, how can you resist greater temptations?

You consistently can't pass the test of posting people with decency or anything resembling the fruit of the Spirit, which makes this entire discussion straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

This is not about legalism, judgementalism or whatever ugly label you make out of thin air. This is about idolatry

The term legalism is an ugly label, yet the term Idolatry is the one people should go with when they want to be non-abrasive. That may make sense in your head, but it won't in anyone else's, and your disrespectful posting of other people who are simply trying to discuss matters with you has about run its course.

Glad you are taking care of your health. Now take care of your spirituality and your conduct, or we will take care of it for you.

 

[electedbyHim]

You tell me what you were talking about first.

I am sorry about your mother.

As for Americans, not everyone is a Christian. Food is designed for convenience and $$ in this world. Peaople eat with their eyes.

I agree obesity is a huge issue.

Christians need to do everything in moderation and exercise self-control.

I understand where you are coming from.

For myself, I am on a carnivore diet, if I slip one day and eat a a salad and raviolis, I do not see it as sin.

Grace and peace to you.
Click to expand...

Carry_Your_Name said

I'm on a low carb diet, eating mostly meat, diary and vegetable with as little sugar and gluten as possible, five out of seven meals are simple salad or soup. It is an extremist, immature black-and-white view to have demonized one entire food group and revered another.

Since you do not like to answer questions.

I will assume you are calling me an immature extremist because of my Carnivore diet. I can handle anything thrown at me. My conscience is clear.

What I have noticed in this thread so far is that you go from one thing to another to justify your position about kosher and clean foods.

You went from twinkies and chips are a sin to gluttony, to idol worship.

I did not want to say this, but I now will.

Your position and condemning members on their choices of foods and my diet is very legalistic, this is not the way in Christian liberty. If your diet and food choices work for you that is fine, but you should not look down on others and condemn them. It seems you are offended by the choice of foods others eat because it does not fit your legalistic belief system.

What I see in your posts is that you are very condescending, a Pharisee spirit if you will.

Many members here have shown you your errors but you continue you hateful rant.

Again, having a twinkie, bacon wrapped shrimp, or ice cream is not a sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then wait for God to destroy both Twinkie and you.

When a man still under the Law's bondage threatens me, I laugh.
Thanks for the laugh.

It is written..."For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." (Rom 6:14)
Sin still has dominion over those under the Law.
Want to be free ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

It is your god if you partake food sacrificed to it. Action speaks louder than words.

You got that inside out.
If there is nothing to sacrifice to, there is no sacrifice.
Life in Christ will free you from Law keeping.
Get in Christ !