Is Yahweh and Allah one?

[tessiewebb]

Both make no mention nor note of the fact that New Testament scripture exposes Christ as the Elijah who returned as promised in 32AD.

I'm quite sure the koran doesn't mention Jesus as Elijah's better example. To do so would undermine Muhammad's status, one would think. As far as the Talmud, Wikipedia has it as "the form of a record of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, philosophy, customs and history." Since the Jews of Jesus' day were oblivious to His presence in the OT, it is no surprise there either.

Jesus said "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." and in another place "And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself."

Elijah was a prophet who was blessed with power by the Holy Spirit. Jesus was the Son of God FILLED with the Holy Spirit. BIG difference.

 

[Free]

Actually, the Jews and the Muslims do worship the same god which they both invent from their interpretation of scripture.

The God of the Jews is invented?

The Koran is the written understanding of the Bible, AKA, the muslim interpretation of scripture.

I do not think this is the case. It is an entirely different set of scriptures for the Muslims and not their interpretation of the Bible. They may borrow some things from the Bible but that is about it.

The Talmud is essentially the Jewish written interpretation of scripture.

While that may be the case, I think it contains much more than that. Not to mention that Jews have the Tanakh, their Scriptures, with which there is much in agreement with the OT.

Both make no mention nor note of the fact that New Testament scripture exposes Christ as the Elijah who returned as promised in 32AD.

And why should they, especially the Jewish Scriptures? For all intents and purposes, the Jewish Scriptures end where our OT does, so of course they are not going to mention anything about the Christian NT. And besides all that, Jesus is not Elijah, they are two completely separate and distinct individuals, Elijah being only human and Jesus being the Son of God, God in human flesh, the God-man.

They both did the same things and same miracles, which was, traditionally,supposed to identify Elijah when would come back.

And yet for some of these similarities, most of which are quite irrelevant and are common to other biblical characters as well, there are still many differences.

Hence Elijah was immortal, a son of God.

Elijah was not immortal.

Both wrote letters to people on Earth after they had ascended.

What do you mean by this?

Both had miraculous births.

Where is Elijah's miraculous birth mentioned?

 

[Mike]

Free, I mention this to offer a chance for you to clarify something. It seems you fight vigorously against Mormonism (which is great) but take a much softer approach toward Islam. Am I wrong? If not, why the difference?

 

[Free]

Free, I mention this to offer a chance for you to clarify something. It seems you fight vigorously against Mormonism (which is great) but take a much softer approach toward Islam. Am I wrong? If not, why the difference?

I do not think I am softer on Islam, although it may appear that way. The problem is with the promotion of misconceptions and errors about what Islam teaches and sometimes the vitriolic responses that Christians give. If Christians are to meaningfully engage Muslims, it needs to be done as honestly and respectfully as possible. This of course applies to all discourse with believers and unbelievers alike.

What gets me with Mormonism is that Mormons claim to be Christians when they are not, that Mormonism is true Christianity when it is not. With Mormons much of it comes down to interpretations of the Bible and additions to the Bible which is quite different than when discussing Islam, although that may come a bit into play.

 

[Stan53]

I do not think I am softer on Islam, although it may appear that way. The problem is with the promotion of misconceptions and errors about what Islam teaches and sometimes the vitriolic responses that Christians give. If Christians are to meaningfully engage Muslims, it needs to be done as honestly and respectfully as possible. This of course applies to all discourse with believers and unbelievers alike.

What gets me with Mormonism is that Mormons claim to be Christians when they are not, that Mormonism is true Christianity when it is not. With Mormons much of it comes down to interpretations of the Bible and additions to the Bible which is quite different than when discussing Islam, although that may come a bit into play.

Yes Free I totally agree about your perspective. However they are both lost, and they should both be treated as such. I also agree that far to many Christians are soft on Mormons and hard on Muslims. I am sure 911 has a lot to do with that.

 

[Mike]

Free, thanks for the response. Personally, I know your heart for the Lord and your passion for Truth. If there's a thread about the Divinity of Christ, the Triune Nature of God, or the validity of Christ's resurrection, you will be there passionately defending the faith. I felt I had to ask you a leading question, because I think it might be easy to miss your point and believe you are soft on lies about our Lord.

I also know how, especially as Americans, our zeal for the Lord combined with the unyielding spread of Muslim violence around the world makes it hard to exercise control. I believe there needs to be a place where righteous judgement meets a heart for the lost. Knowing you as I do, I believe this is what you're getting at. As for me, I need to feed the latter, because I'm loaded with the former.

 

[Richasher777]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZErFbz5NJc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Please pay particular attention to the writing on the inside of the dome of the rock.
It's is satanic, Allah is Satan, it is his scheme to bring about the control of all people's through his great deception which is Islam.
He denys the son, he Denys the father.

 

[Seeker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZErFbz5NJc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Please pay particular attention to the writing on the inside of the dome of the rock.
It's is satanic, Allah is Satan, it is his scheme to bring about the control of all people's through his great deception which is Islam.
He denys the son, he Denys the father.

I'm getting quite bored of this thread and of repeating the same thing over and over again to different people who jump in with the same emotional rhetoric and ignore what has been said.

With that justification in mind, I would reference you to: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=41882

If you have any further issues to discuss after this, then I would be very happy to engage intellectually with you my friend.

 

[Stan53]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZErFbz5NJc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Please pay particular attention to the writing on the inside of the dome of the rock.
It's is satanic, Allah is Satan, it is his scheme to bring about the control of all people's through his great deception which is Islam.
He denys the son, he Denys the father.

Right. All we need. Satan behind every rock. Give me a break.

 

[Richasher777]

Right. All we need. Satan behind every rock. Give me a break.

Hi Stan, did you watch the link, particularly the reference to the inside Text of Koranic verses of the Dome. This is a blatant denying of Christ, at the very spot Christ is said to rule all nations, if that's not satanic I don't know how else you could describe, the altimate affront to truth.

 

[Stan53]

Hi Stan, did you watch the link, particularly the reference to the inside Text of Koranic verses of the Dome. This is a blatant denying of Christ, at the very spot Christ is said to rule all nations, if that's not satanic I don't know how else you could describe, the ultimate affront to truth.

No I didn't, and can't see why I would or should. This is just like all the satanic verse on rock records when played back-wards. We definitely don't need to or should we, focus on the things of Satan. I don't justify Islam or believe in anything associated with it, but the people need to hear the Good News and won't be hearing it in a Mosque.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Is the God of Christianity the God of Judaism?

To propose such a question would be to accept a false premise. We, as Gentiles who accept the Jewish Messiah, have been grafted in to the Jewish faith. Conversely, Jesus rebuked Jews who would not accept Him by saying they had Satan as their father.

John 8:21-59 demonstrates that any Jew that does not accept Jesus as Lord & Savior is in fact not Jewish.

It must be reiterated that the distinction between Yahweh and Allah lies in the true nature of God, not in the culturally accepted word used to refer to God. Neither the unbelieving Jews of Jesus' time, nor modern Jews of various sects worship Yahweh precisely because the reject Yeshua.

 

[Free]

To propose such a question would be to accept a false premise. We, as Gentiles who accept the Jewish Messiah, have been grafted in to the Jewish faith. Conversely, Jesus rebuked Jews who would not accept Him by saying they had Satan as their father.

John 8:21-59 demonstrates that any Jew that does not accept Jesus as Lord & Savior is in fact not Jewish.

It must be reiterated that the distinction between Yahweh and Allah lies in the true nature of God, not in the culturally accepted word used to refer to God. Neither the unbelieving Jews of Jesus' time, nor modern Jews of various sects worship Yahweh precisely because the reject Yeshua.

So is the God of the OT the same as the God of the NT?

BTW, if you want to argue to the true nature of God, then it must be pointed out that God is triune, and according to your argument any who do not believe that do not worship God.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

So is the God of the OT the same as the God of the NT?

Yes, of course.

BTW, if you want to argue to the true nature of God, then it must be pointed out that God is triune, and according to your argument any who do not believe that do not worship God.

Exactly. Jesus makes this point in John 8:56

 

[Stan53]

So is the God of the OT the same as the God of the NT?

YES

BTW, if you want to argue to the true nature of God, then it must be pointed out that God is triune, and according to your argument any who do not believe that do not worship God.

Yes that is true, and that triune nature is found in the very beginning of the OT ins Gen 1:1 where is states; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The Hebrew word for God here is 'elohiym, and connotes a plurality in reference to God. A masculine plural noun.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Although Christian Arabs (who use an Arabic translation of the Bible) also refer to Yahweh as Allah, this still presents a dilemma.

The Qur'an is also written in Arabic which, according to Islam, is the language of God (Allah). As has been pointed out, the Qur'an states that Allah is not a father, nor does he have a son.

So, in regards to the Arabic Bible, how can Allah "so love the world that he sent his only son" if Allah isn't a father who has any son to send in the first place?

Also, while it is true that Allah is the Arabic word for God, pagan Arabs had been worshiping a creator-god named Allah long before Muhammed conquered Mecca. I doubt very much that if Muhammed had conquered a region where Ba'al worship was still prevalent, we'd be debating if Yahweh and Ba'al are one!

 

[Stan53]

pagan Arabs had been worshiping a creator-god named Allah long before Muhammed conquered Mecca.

Yes, the God of Abraham is who they worshipped, the same God we do.
Unfortunately, Islam changed all that.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Yes, the God of Abraham is who they worshipped, the same God we do.
Unfortunately, Islam changed all that.

Who worshiped the God of Abraham, pre-Islamic pagan Arabs or Muhammed and his followers?

 

[Stan53]

Who worshiped the God of Abraham, pre-Islamic pagan Arabs or Muhammed and his followers?

Did you not understand my response?

Ishmael was the father of the Arabs. He and his descendents worshipped the God of Abraham, as did Hagar his mother. They weren't pagans.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Did you not understand my response?

Ishmael was the father of the Arabs. He and his descendents worshipped the God of Abraham, as did Hagar his mother. They weren't pagans.

As I stated earlier, if one were to "worship the God of Abraham" they would accept Yeshua. In Jesus own words in John 8:56

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.

As I'm sure you are aware, when the unbelieving Jews questioned how Jesus could have seen someone who had been dead longer than Jesus had been alive, Jesus responded "before Abraham was, I am". Jesus makes it clear that "worshipping the God of Abraham" is synonymous with accepting His divinity. A claim which the Jews sought to stone Him for.

As for the ancient peoples known as the Ishmaelites & Hagrites, consider Psalm 83:


1 O God, do not remain silent;
do not turn a deaf ear,
do not stand aloof, O God.
2 See how your enemies growl,
how your foes rear their heads.
3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
4 “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
so that Israel’s name is remembered no more.”
5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants.
9 Do to them as you did to Midian,
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
10 who perished at Endor
and became like dung on the ground.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna


Did Ishmael & Hagar worship Yahweh? Probably so, considering Hagar cried out to God after they were expelled from Abraham's camp. Did their descendants worship Yahweh? Doubtful, considering Psalm 83 includes them with Ba'al worshipers who were hostile towards the Israelites.

Regardless, Jesus made it abundantly clear (to the point of almost being stoned) that the God of Abraham is the Father & the Son.