James 2 And OSAS - Part 2

[smaller]

Why don't we get real in this OSAS discussion and start recognizing the difference between blood bought and protected believers who sin,

That doesn't exist in your theology.

and fwiw I do not use 'blood brought Grace' as an excuse for differentiating and justifying 'my factual sin' from any other person's sins.

and Christ rejecting, unbelieving, apostate unbelievers who sin, but who think they're still protected by the blood.

I reject many 'versions' of Jesus as an outright LIE. I reject the Mormon Jesus and the Jehovah Witness Jesus and on and on this observation can go.

IN fact there are so many VERSIONS of Jesus I've lost track of them all. Just like 'your version' that says if a believer happens to fall away from FALSE JESUS that Jesus left or forsook them and will not save them.

It has really been bugging me that the OSAS argument fails to make this distinction in this and other threads and lumps all sin and wrong-doing and the people who do that into one group.

I do not worship the Jesus that will abandon me, no. Nor do I see the need to bow to that version of Jesus. Nor do I see the need to make other people bow to that Jesus.

There's a big difference between sinning and trusting the blood to keep you (and bring you to repentance), and sinning and NOT trusting the blood to keep you (and NOT coming to repentance). How is it that OSAS can't tell the difference?

Yeah, well, all you 'work to save yourself FROM JESUS can excuse your own sins on just about any angle you care to find. I still say that being a 'less' sinner is not the measure that will be used for heaven's entry and that is ALL YOU CAN FACTUALLY muster.

s

 

[Butch5]

That is the Ante-Nicene writers they encompass the time from the apostles to about 325 A.D.

I did some reading today, there's a LOT. Thanks for the tips.

There sure is. When you get to Irenaeus you'll find he is not light reading.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That doesn't exist in your theology.

and fwiw I do not use 'blood brought Grace' as an excuse for differentiating and justifying 'my factual sin' from any other person's sins.



I reject many 'versions' of Jesus as an outright LIE. I reject the Mormon Jesus and the Jehovah Witness Jesus and on and on this observation can go.

IN fact there are so many VERSIONS of Jesus I've lost track of them all. Just like 'your version' that says if a believer happens to fall away from FALSE JESUS that Jesus left or forsook them and will not save them.



I do not worship the Jesus that will abandon me, no. Nor do I see the need to bow to that version of Jesus. Nor do I see the need to make other people bow to that Jesus.

There's a big difference between sinning and trusting the blood to keep you (and bring you to repentance), and sinning and NOT trusting the blood to keep you (and NOT coming to repentance). How is it that OSAS can't tell the difference?

Yeah, well, all you 'work to save yourself FROM JESUS can excuse your own sins on just about any angle you care to find. I still say that being a 'less' sinner is not the measure that will be used for heaven's entry and that is ALL YOU CAN FACTUALLY muster.

s

I've keep seeing this more and more. As one who has done a lot of witnessing I can tell you this thread is nothing more than debating the unbelievers argument. The arguments are the same.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

The norm is to have faith in Christ.
God grants merciful exceptions when a person was ignorant of the Gospel.
Let us remember that God is just AND merciful.

Regards

In your world that's only IF they deserve it.

Trying to stir the pot again. Do you have anything positive to add or are you just trolling again?

That is your factual position is it not? Why do you try to spin otherwise?

???

Sorry, I am not biting your invitation for a flame war...

 

[smaller]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

Trying to stir the pot again. Do you have anything positive to add or are you just trolling again?

That is your factual position is it not? Why do you try to spin otherwise?

???

Sorry, I am not biting your invitation for a flame war...

You mean 'fact engagement?'

Sorry, I am not biting on you falsely spinning the topic matter either and trying to draw a mod.

s

 

[Butch5]

I didn't say you could fall away from being his sheep. His sheep do not fall away. However Jesus had thousands of followers and they all fell away except for the 12 and one was a devil. They turned back, went home, did not continue with him, could not endure his teachings, said he was beside himself, out of his mind, didn't like what they heard; the carpenter's son telling them they were evil, eating with sinners, something about salt, eating his flesh, drinking his blood, doing things against the law, making himself God. They followed him for a while - believed he was a prophet, a good man, then they went back to their daily life.

Hi Mark,

I know you said the sheep don't fall away. My point was that they do. a person could not fall away if they weren't one of the sheep to begin with.

Do you not believe Jesus? No one can make his sheep fall because God himself is holding them up.

When you fall away from Christ Jesus you are falling away from his teachings and his commandments. Those who do not understand his teachings are most likely to fall away. Those who don't have root in themselves, who are dependant on others for their understanding, don't really know, aren't sure, they are easily tempted to fall away from his teachings and go after false teachers. Some bear good fruit for a while but then the cares of the world over take them and they neglect his teachings. Those who understand and keep his teachings and his commandments receive more - more teachings, more understanding, more knowledge, more wisdom. This results in more joy, more happiness, more peace, more security, more everything. 'For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.' Mt. 25:29 Those who fall away from his teachings and those who neglect his commandments will be cast out into the outer darkness. There men will weep and gnash their teeth.

Hi Mark,

That the point of all of those warnings, don't fall away. There's no point in the warnings if one can't fall away. I agree the sheep are safe the question is what happens to the one who chooses to no longer be one of the sheep.

 

[francisdesales]

Can such a "marriage" be still called a marriage? Is THAT salvation?

Regards

It seems here you are overlooking the obviousness that God hates divorce and will not be a part of it in His perfect afterlife or the promise He's made toward our eternal life as His Bride. He allows it, amongst us humans via the sin of adultery, but hates it of Himself. But the analogy only goes so far with respect to how God is treating His Bride. Hosea for example is more a picture of God's commitment.

Yes, God hates divorce with His Church. But God is "married" to the Church, not individuals. It is the Church as an entity that will be presented pure and immaculate. Nothing about individuals guaranteed because they have a "marriage certificate".

Yet again, How does this address the fact that you do not know absolutely that you are of the elect? If you fall away, you never were, correct?

 

[smaller]

I've keep seeing this more and more. As one who has done a lot of witnessing I can tell you this thread is nothing more than debating the unbelievers argument. The arguments are the same.

What argument might that be exactly?

That there are a LOT of 'believers' that don't believe in the 'other guy's Jesus?'

I left the RCC version of Jesus for no uncertain fact. And so did ALL of Protestantism. Am I and they ALL now potentially damned heretics for doing so?

I think not. And I'm pretty sure I'm in good company.

s

 

[francisdesales]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

Trying to stir the pot again. Do you have anything positive to add or are you just trolling again?

That is your factual position is it not? Why do you try to spin otherwise?

???

Sorry, I am not biting your invitation for a flame war...

You mean 'fact engagement?'

Sorry, I am not biting on you falsely spinning the topic matter either and trying to draw a mod.

s

If I want your opinion in the future, I'll ask for it. Otherwise, please don't address me, I will consider it trolling. I didn't come here to ruin my Christian walk by arguing with people like yourself.

thanks

 

[reba]

closed for review