Jehovah's witnesses and their delusions!

[jgredline]

I agree to a point. And that point is: They do worship the same God.

zaks darlene.
The JW do not worship the same God...They worship another Jesus...

The apostle Paul warns us about cults like the JW
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted you may well put up with it!


zaks darlene,
The greatest mistake of the Witnesses is that they are expecting the coming of Jesus but they start saying that Jesus is not God, but just the "son of God", like you and I. The Jehovah's Witnesses discard most orthodox doctrines of the Bible, conflicting with those of historic Christianity: The Holy Trinity is seen as a demonic doctrine, Jesus Christ is stripped of his deity, is not God!, the Holy Spirit is robbed of his personality... they deny the physical resurrection of Christ, and there is not eternal Hell... their doctrines on the sufficiency of Christ's atonement, on human government, and on the existence of the soul are not biblical... The worst of them all is to say that "Jesus is not God"

They are not the same God !!!!

 

[beehive2]

zaks darlene.
The JW do not worship the same God...They worship another Jesus...

The apostle Paul warns us about cults like the JW
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted you may well put up with it!


zaks darlene,
The greatest mistake of the Witnesses is that they are expecting the coming of Jesus but they start saying that Jesus is not God, but just the "son of God", like you and I. The Jehovah's Witnesses discard most orthodox doctrines of the Bible, conflicting with those of historic Christianity: The Holy Trinity is seen as a demonic doctrine, Jesus Christ is stripped of his deity, is not God!, the Holy Spirit is robbed of his personality... they deny the physical resurrection of Christ, and there is not eternal Hell... their doctrines on the sufficiency of Christ's atonement, on human government, and on the existence of the soul are not biblical... The worst of them all is to say that "Jesus is not God"

They are not the same God !!!!

True Christians and JW's do not use the cross in worship, why not?

An important reason is that they believe Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Greek word generally translated "cross" as stau-ros'. IT basically means an upright pale or stake. Staur-os never means 2 pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle. There is nothing in the Greek of the New Testament even to imply two peices of timber. In several texts, bible writers use another word, xy-lon, (Acts 5:30; 10:39, 13:29; Galatians 3:13; Peter 2:24. This word means "timber" or "a stick, club or tree". In KJV Galatians 3:13,it is written: Accursed is every man hagned upon a stake. Paul clearly quotes Dueteronomy 21:22,23, which clearly refers to a stake. not a cross. Since such a means of execution made the person a "curse", it owuld not be proper for Christians to decorate their homes with images of Christ impaled.

There is no evidence that for the first 300 years after Jesus' death those claiming to be Christians used the cross in worship. In the 4th century, pagan emporer Constantine became a convert to apostate Christianity and promoted the cross as its symbol. Whatever Constantine's motives, the cross had nothing to do with Jesus. In the New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The cross is found in both pre-christian and non-christian cultures". Pagans promoted the cross to make it easier for them to accept Christianity, nevertheless, devotion to any pagan symbol is clearly condemned by the bible, (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) Forbid all forms of idolatry (Exodus 20:4, 5; Corinthians 10:14)

I can attest that JW's do not believe Jesus is another God. They simply believe he is the son of God. I can also attest that they do worship the same God.

If the father and the son are the same entity, who is Jesus praying to in the pictures before His crucifixtion...who is it that Jesus is praying to? Is he praying to himself, no, he's praying to the Father. He is not praying to a cross either. He is praying to God.

 

[jgredline]

True Christians and JW's do not use the cross in worship, why not?

An important reason is that they believe Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Greek word generally translated "cross" as stau-ros'. IT basically means an upright pale or stake. Staur-os never means 2 pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle. There is nothing in the Greek of the New Testament even to imply two peices of timber. In several texts, bible writers use another word, xy-lon, (Acts 5:30; 10:39, 13:29; Galatians 3:13; Peter 2:24. This word means "timber" or "a stick, club or tree". In KJV Galatians 3:13,it is written: Accursed is every man hagned upon a stake. Paul clearly quotes Dueteronomy 21:22,23, which clearly refers to a stake. not a cross. Since such a means of execution made the person a "curse", it owuld not be proper for Christians to decorate their homes with images of Christ impaled.

There is no evidence that for the first 300 years after Jesus' death those claiming to be Christians used the cross in worship. In the 4th century, pagan emporer Constantine became a convert to apostate Christianity and promoted the cross as its symbol. Whatever Constantine's motives, the cross had nothing to do with Jesus. In the New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The cross is found in both pre-christian and non-christian cultures". Pagans promoted the cross to make it easier for them to accept Christianity, nevertheless, devotion to any pagan symbol is clearly condemned by the bible, (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) Forbid all forms of idolatry (Exodus 20:4, 5; Corinthians 10:14)

I can attest that JW's do not believe Jesus is another God. They simply believe he is the son of God. I can also attest that they do worship the same God.

If the father and the son are the same entity, who is Jesus praying to in the pictures before His crucifixtion...who is it that Jesus is praying to? Is he praying to himself, no, he's praying to the Father. He is not praying to a cross either. He is praying to God.

Well, well well.....Just as I thought. You do not believe Jesus to be God...Well this explains alot....No wonder you have been swept away into believing the JW delusions...This also explains some of your posts in other threads....Ok lets take a further look at this Cult....

Jehovahs Witnesses are well-known for their aggressive door-to-door evangelism, their stance against blood transfusion, and their prophecies of the end of the world. This group was started in 1879 under the leadership of Charles Taze Russell, who was born on February 16, 1852, in Old Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Russells followers became known as Bible Students. After Russells death in 1916, Joseph Franklin Rutherford won control of the movement. In 1931 the group adopted the name Jehovahs Witnesses. Since 1971, leadership has been invested in a group known as the Governing Body.

At the end of 2004 there were almost ninety-seven thousand congregations of Jehovahs Witnesses in the world. With headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, Witnesses believe they constitute the one true church of Jesus Christ. Witnesses teach that the Trinity doctrine is satanic, that Jesus was originally Michael the archangel, and that his Second Coming took place in 1914. Witnesses also believe that Jesus died on a stake and not on a cross. The group denies the physical resurrection of Jesus and the personal nature of the Holy Spirit. They believe that only 144,000 Witnesses will go to heaven. Jehovahs Witnesses are against Christmas and Easter celebrations, observance of birthdays, participation in the military, and saluting the flag of any nation.

Since Russells day, Jehovahs Witnesses have been fixated on prophetic calculations. Their leaders, who claim to be prophets, can be viewed as false, given their penchant for error-laden apocalyptic pronouncements. The end of the world was predicted for 1914, 1918, 1925, the 1940s, and 1975. Sadly, generations of young Witnesses have skipped college because of Watchtower Society teaching that the earth was facing its demise. The Governing Body issued an apology in 1980 for the false predictions and confusions surrounding 1975.

Witness life is strictly controlled by the mother organization in Brooklyn. Members are forbidden to read material critical of the movement. At one time Witness leaders even stated that faithful disciples should believe what they are told even if they know it is untrue! Witnesses who disagree with Watchtower policy find themselves disciplined, sidelined, or excommunicated. The totalitarian spirit of the movement explains why members remain aloof about evidence of corruption and hypocrisy at headquarters and oblivious to doctrinal and scholarly blunders in Society teaching.

The most significant critic is Raymond Franz, a former member of the Governing Body. His memoirCrisis of Conscience is a powerful work against the legalism and hypocrisy of the Witness hierarchy. Franz is a nephew of longtime Society president Frederick W. Franz (18931992). The best scholarly study of the Witnesses is Apocalypse Delayed, the work of James Penton, a former member of the Society.

In 2000 William Bowen of Calvert City, Kentucky, discovered that one of his fellow elders in the local Kingdom Hall had been guilty of molesting a child many times. The Watchtower Society told Bowen that the person would be removed as an elder but that Bowen was not to report the person to the police. Bowen disobeyed the Society, resigned as an elder, and went public. He started silentlambs.org to provide a setting where victims of abuse can protest Witness cover-ups, thus serving as a place for the lambs to roar.Bowen was kicked out of the Society in the summer of 2002

http://www.pro4machineworks.com/JW.html

 

[beehive2]

Well, well well.....Just as I thought. You do not believe Jesus to be God...Well this explains alot....No wonder you have been swept away into believing the JW delusions...This also explains some of your posts in other threads....Ok lets take a further look at this Cult....

What does this supposed to mean? I had only sat down and spoken to my friends this past Friday

Jehovahs Witnesses are well-known for their aggressive door-to-door evangelism, their stance against blood transfusion, and their prophecies of the end of the world. This group was started in 1879 under the leadership of Charles Taze Russell, who was born on February 16, 1852, in Old Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Russells followers became known as Bible Students. After Russells death in 1916, Joseph Franklin Rutherford won control of the movement. In 1931 the group adopted the name Jehovahs Witnesses. Since 1971, leadership has been invested in a group known as the Governing Body.

At the end of 2004 there were almost ninety-seven thousand congregations of Jehovahs Witnesses in the world. With headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, Witnesses believe they constitute the one true church of Jesus Christ. Witnesses teach that the Trinity doctrine is satanic, that Jesus was originally Michael the archangel, and that his Second Coming took place in 1914. Witnesses also believe that Jesus died on a stake and not on a cross. The group denies the physical resurrection of Jesus and the personal nature of the Holy Spirit. They believe that only 144,000 Witnesses will go to heaven. Jehovahs Witnesses are against Christmas and Easter celebrations, observance of birthdays, participation in the military, and saluting the flag of any nation.

I explained why they believe Jesus did not die on a cross. Also why they do not observe holidays/birthdays. And as far as saluting the flag and military, they do not believe in that because it is a form of IDOLATRY.

Since Russells day, Jehovahs Witnesses have been fixated on prophetic calculations. Their leaders, who claim to be prophets, can be viewed as false, given their penchant for error-laden apocalyptic pronouncements. The end of the world was predicted for 1914, 1918, 1925, the 1940s, and 1975. Sadly, generations of young Witnesses have skipped college because of Watchtower Society teaching that the earth was facing its demise. The Governing Body issued an apology in 1980 for the false predictions and confusions surrounding 1975.

Witness life is strictly controlled by the mother organization in Brooklyn. Members are forbidden to read material critical of the movement. At one time Witness leaders even stated that faithful disciples should believe what they are told even if they know it is untrue! Witnesses who disagree with Watchtower policy find themselves disciplined, sidelined, or excommunicated. The totalitarian spirit of the movement explains why members remain aloof about evidence of corruption and hypocrisy at headquarters and oblivious to doctrinal and scholarly blunders in Society teaching.

The most significant critic is Raymond Franz, a former member of the Governing Body. His memoirCrisis of Conscience is a powerful work against the legalism and hypocrisy of the Witness hierarchy. Franz is a nephew of longtime Society president Frederick W. Franz (18931992). The best scholarly study of the Witnesses is Apocalypse Delayed, the work of James Penton, a former member of the Society.

In 2000 William Bowen of Calvert City, Kentucky, discovered that one of his fellow elders in the local Kingdom Hall had been guilty of molesting a child many times. The Watchtower Society told Bowen that the person would be removed as an elder but that Bowen was not to report the person to the police. Bowen disobeyed the Society, resigned as an elder, and went public. He started silentlambs.org to provide a setting where victims of abuse can protest Witness cover-ups, thus serving as a place for the lambs to roar.Bowen was kicked out of the Society in the summer of 2002

http://www.pro4machineworks.com/JW.html

And so they are bad because this guy molested a child and was not held accountable? One bad apple spoils the bunch? Look at all of the Catholic priests out there, nearly daily accountings of this going on in the church.Do you honestly think that all of them were reported?

What you have pasted in here, doesn't sound horrible. I really do not think you have read anything I have written, my friend jgred...I am not a JW. I have been a firm believer in Christianity for nearly 29 years. I haven't been the best Christian, not perfect at all. Hwoever. I clearly respect JW's and their faith.
[/b]

 

[zaksreligion]

Funny Behavior

Isn't it funny how mad some Christians get when you bring up JW's?.
To be honest, I'm getting so sick and tired of everybody thinking thier religion is right and everyone elses is wrong, I'm getting ready to abandon all religions all together and read my bible and follow God all by myself.I mean Jahovah no wait Jesus woops or is it Allah or maybe it's Buddah!!!!!.
This is defenitely not what God wanted, can anybody argue with that? Are you people kidding me?

 

[zaksreligion]

Merciful God?

So your telling me God has mercy right?, but he will send me to hell to burn and be tortured for eternity. Why doesn't this make sense? If you had a son or daughter and they where bad, even very bad, would you do that to them?. It is the same thing, God is our Father he loves us like a parent loves a son or daughter, why would he subject us to this while we dont even have a choice whether we are even born or not.

This is just one reason I feel JW's make a whole lot more sense.
This fire and torture nonsense reminds me of Catholisism, which has a ton of wholes in it.

People had better get a grip and really consider the facts of all presented to them because ignorance unfortunately, is no excuse.

 

[Solo]

Re: Merciful God?

People had better get a grip and really consider the facts of all presented to them because ignorance unfortunately, is no excuse.

Pay attention to your own advice; you will benefit greatly.

The path to the truth is to seek God, and if you have never been born again, pray to God for his salvation through Jesus Christ; for if you do not, your condemnation will come on you because of your own rejection of God's path to righteousness.

Not all are children of God. Those who are not born again are children of satan.

Check out what Jesus says about being born again. Notice that those who refuse to come to him remain in their condition of condemnation:

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:3-21

Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world, but that the world could be saved through him. Those that do not come to the light to be saved are condemned already, and they remain condemned because they rejected the light of God because their deeds were evil.

What does Jesus say about eternal life and everlasting punishment?

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:41-46

Jesus speaks of the righteous going into eternal life, and the unrighteous going away into everlasting punishment. The Greek word is the same word that the KJV translators translated as eternal and as everlasting. Eternal and everlasting are the same word, and the Greek word means without beginning or end. This Greek word Aionios is translated eternal 42 times, and everlasting 24 times in the King James Version.

Jehovah's Witnesses used to believe that only 144,000 individuals would be saved, but they have changed their story from the beginning. The study of the teachings of the watchtower in relation to the Scriptures will reveal the false teachings of the watchtower.

God bless.

 

[zaksreligion]

Misunderstood

First of all, I do in fact believe in God.
Second, JW's still believe only 144,000 will go to heaven.
Third, they also believe countless others who are worthy will inherit the earth to live on it forever.
I do believe there is a hell, I just dont believe it is going to be a place of torture and torment, I think that it will be death or end of life and exsistance, the end of your living soul or spirit.
Different religions, for the most part, have good intentions but behaving or adhering to God's law because you are afraid of demons torturing you, isn't going to get you into heaven.
I do believe you must be born again to enter God's kingdom also.
I believe you must lead a lifestyle in accordance to the Bible because you want to please God and follow him in his goodness, and that is how we will get to Heaven or inherit the earth.
I dont believe God wants us to live in fear our whole life.

 

[Solo]

Multiplied Figarative Thinking?
THE 144,000 ANOINTED CLASS
Wilbert S. Cramer , Th . D .

Will # 137,229 of the "Anointed Class" of the Jehovah's Witnesses please stand up!

Does this sound absurd to you? Being that Jehovah God is a God of order, does it not seem reasonable to ask what is my number if I am part of the ranks that make up the 144,000? This is, of course, if you claim to be one of them.

The first president and founder of the Watchtower Organization, Charles Taze Russell taught and believed that only 144, 000 people called Spiritual Israel would go to heaven. Of course, this out-gathering started in "C.E".33. Some of his

followers would consequently be part of this elite class of Christians. He never lived to see all of this materialize as he passed away in 1916.

He was succeeded by Judge Joseph Franklin Rutherford who, by and large, embraced most of what Russell taught with some modifications. The 144,000 idea however, was still a major doctrine of the Watchtower Organization. By the year 1919 the membership rose to 4,000 and by 1939 reached 73,000.

Back in the early 1930's Rutherford anticipated rapid growth of the organization and visualized the membership rising beyond 144,000. This would complicate the original doctrine of only 144,000 people being candidates for citizenship in heaven.

Rutherford was now confronted with a big problem. What was to be done with the prospective members coming into the organization that would exceed 144,000? Being that some of this elite group had already been chosen by Jehovah God during some 1900 years of the Common Era since the death of Jesus Christ, something had to be done fast !

A bright light flashed up in the mind of Rutherford as what to do about this dilemma. So, at the Washington, D.C. Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses, May 31, 1935, he made an astounding announcement. Anyone coming into the organization from that day on would compose an earthly class of Christians.

This earthly class would be called "The Great Crowd", and would spend eternity on a new righteous "Paradise Earth" with no hope of ever going to heaven. Some members were still part of the remnant totaling 144,000 called the "Little Flock" of anointed Christians and could go to heaven .

As per recent statistics from the Watchtower Organization there are over four million members worldwide, with only one fifth of one percent of them represent-ing the "Anointed Class", about 8,600 or so, remaining on earth .


THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR FACTS, AS FACTS PRODUCE TRUTH.

Let Us See What The Word Of God Reveals:
What are the qualifications for the 144,000 mentioned in the Bible book of Revelation Chapter 7 & 14?

• 1) They are all Jews - Revelation 7:4.
  [/*:m:7aa21]
• 2) They are all men - Revelation 14:4.
  [/*:m:7aa21]
• 3) They are all identified by tribe - Revelation 7:4-8.
  [/*:m:7aa21]
• 4) None of them are married - Revelation 14:4.
  [/*:m:7aa21]
• 5) They have the Father's name written on their foreheads - Revelation 14:1.
  [/*:m:7aa21]
• 6) They are all seen with Jesus on Mount Zion, on Earth - Revelation 14:1.
  [/*:m:7aa21]
• 7) Their appearance is after the Great Tribulation, as Christ will not return to earth until the beginning of the Millennium or at the very end of the Great Tribulation. (See Matthew 24:29-30, Revelation 1:7, Acts 1:10-11.)[/*:m:7aa21]

This is all "figurative" you say? We may conclude then, that the number 12,000 following the name of each tribe in Revelation 7:4-8 is also "figurative", thus the 12,000 X 12,000 being the 144,000 becomes multiplied figurative thinking !

The truth is that there is not a single person on earth today that meets the qual-ifications of the 144,000 of Revelation chapters 7 & 14. Anyone who claims that he is one of them has been tragically deceived by the Watchtower Organization.

Are we to believe that Jehovah God has appointed an elite group of Christians destined for heaven and a crowd of second- rate Christians who must settle for a lesser inheritance, paradise earth? I think not.

"God is no respecter of persons". (Acts 10:34.)

What about the mention of two flocks by Jesus at John 10:16? The answer is very simple to understand. Jesus here is speaking to the Jews, that is, redeemed Jews through faith in His finished work of redemption. Jesus said, "There shall be ONE fold, and ONE shepherd." (John 10:16)

The other sheep that He mentions must be redeemed Gentiles, who also are recipients of salvation . Simple as that! There is no mention here of the 144,000 being the" little flock"

Why not consider discarding the teachings of the Watchtower and allow the Bible to speak to you by the guidance of the "Holy Spirit" ? See John 16:13. He, the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth .

Shall We Add To The Confusion?

Each year at the annual "Memorial" only the elite Anointed Class of members partake of the emblems. Being that some have died since the proceeding celeb-ration, naturally each year there should be less participants. According to the Watchtower book "Revelation, It's Grand Climax At Hand" page 125 , only 8,808 partook of the emblems at the 1987 "Memorial". In the Watchtower magazine March 1, 1992 page 19 referring to the 1991 "Memorial" 8,850 partook of the emblems . Does this mean that now there are 144,042 of the Anointed Class? What do you think?

God Is Not The Author Of Confusion!

At what number did Russell begin counting in the 1870s when he started writing the "Truth"? How did Rutherford know when to stop counting for an accurate count of the 144,000? Jehovah's Witnesses YOU TELL ME ! Also, Some of the anointed have defected through the years and had to be replaced. Does this mean that Jehovah God made a mistake in choosing them?

Adding to the confusion of the Watchtower, the mistake is made by calling the 144,000 the Bride of Christ. Any serious student of the Bible knows that the Bride of Christ is the "Church" which started to be built at Pentecost and will be com-pleted by the appearing of Jesus Christ in the air to call the Church to heaven. (See 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Of course, the number of members of this true church (Ecclesia ) could well run into the millions, not a mere 144,000.

Is it safe to use conjecture in making the scriptures compatible with Watchtower preconceived theology?

Jehovah's Witnesses Please Think On These Things ! !

"The Light Could Get Brighter"

Retrieved from http://www.macgregorministries.org/jeho ... inted.html

 

[MrVersatile48]

I'll read this thread later: OP title reminded me that a keen C of E Lay Reader said last week, "It seems these days that the churches are empty & the JWs have a monopoly!"

Any familiar with Scouse wit will recognise the element of irony

JWs deny the deity of Christ & the miraculous powers of God's Holy Spirit

I came in today to review Reinhard Bonnke books

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=


& Benny Hinn books

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 538#322538



& Morris Cerullo books

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=27766



Kathryn Kuhlman books

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 541#322541



Any in or near Liverpool are invited to mighty demo of God's miraculous powers at 7pm @ City Church, Jubilee Drive, by Kensington Park lights, L6 - 8, 9 & 10 bus routes - as I just Town-Cried in Bootle en route here, & plan to do all around Liverpool centre after I reach my post *3000


You may even want to email/ring the Roger Philips lunchtime phone-in @ http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool & tell the many thousands of listeners that we had a prophecy on Sun am that City Church will soon be too small for the crowds that will flock there when God visits Liverpool in a mighty way

Remind them that Colin Urquhart prophesied, decades ago, that there will one day be mega churches - with 1000+ members each - in Liverpool

Watch Frontline Church

http://www.frontline.org.uk/


& Anfield Lighthouse Temple of Praise too, OK?

Temple of Praise, Anfield, Liverpool

Search. Temple of Praise. Anfield, Liverpool ... Liverpool Lighthouse. 131 Oakfield Road. Anfield. Liverpool. L4 0UH. Travel & Parking: ...
http://www.findachurch.co.uk/churches/s ... ndex2.html - 13k - Cached - More pages from this site

ALL M'SIDE EVANGELICAL CHURCHES ARE LINKED HERE:-

http://www.tfh.org.uk/churches.htm



Email http://www.flamefm.org.uk ready for their March month on air



Tell other media that Christians demand the end of unjust discrimination in broadcasting law & that the next election is less than 70 days away


Remind them what Daniel did when he read Jeremiah's prophecy of 70 years in Babylon exile & realised that 70 years was nearly up




Remind them what Nehemiah & Ezra did to rebuild Jerusalem & the Temple




The Jerusalem Temple will again be rebuilt, for Messiah wil re-enter Jerusalem thru its East Gate - so God will miraculously demolish the blasphemous Dome of the Rock & Al Aqsa



The golden dome declares, "God has no son"



That is blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ - the Almighty Creator in human form




RELEVANCE TO OP?

JWs don't 'witness' to any of those things

God bless!

Ian

 

[zaksreligion]

Dear Solo

I thank you for the information, you have opened my eyes on this matter.

 

[Vic C.]

Michael, good job on the last page. Any serious student of eschatology knows the exclusiveness of 144,000 only is an inaccurate interpretation. Thanks.


Jesus is not Michael the Archangel...

JW's claim their Bible was translated by seven Greek and Hebrew "scholars"; the fact is it was five, not seven and they were hardly professionals.

They show no Christ-like love when push comes to shove. Try leaving the Watchtower and see how the congregation treats you. If you have family members still in the Watchtower, they will most likely disown you, or at the very least, avoid you as much as possible.

They are possessive.

Thay are materialistic...

more to come when and if I get a chance.

<edited for spelling error>

 

[beehive2]

Vic,

Just to assure you, Zak, nor I are JW's. We have friends who are and almost had us completely convinced to follow. I have made a post in this forum in regards to what happens next! Hopefully, you can help guide us.

 

[beehive2]

Michael, good job on the last page. Any serious student of eschatology knows the exclusiveness of 144,000 only is an inaccurate interpretation. Thanks.

How is this interpretation inaccurate when it is clearly stated in the bible book of Revelation 7 That 144,000 are sealed?


Jesus is not Michael the Archangel...

Right, Jesus is the son of God

They show no Christ-like love when push comes to shove. Try leaving the Watchtower and see how the congregation treats you. If you have family members still in the Watchtower, they will most likely disown you, or at the very least, avoid you as much as possible.

They are possessive.

Thay are materialistic...

Possesive? Not at all. Our friends do not treat us as such, in fact, even though we do not make the choice to join JW, they still are our friends, they have not disowned us, they do not avoid us. They still some to us weekly to help us learn the bible.

As far as materialistic, that is the furthest thing from the truth. They stress very much so that earthly possessions are of no use to them or us. They do not honor anything material. If they did, they would celebrate Christmas and all the other holidays. They would worship the cross and pictures and statues.

And they do not disown family members who do not believe in the JW way. It is the other way around. Family members who are NOT JW disown those who are.

It states in the bible time and time again,

"All Christians must witness, tell good news."

"Need for repeated calls, continued witnessing"

"Must bear witness to be free of blood guilt"

There are too many scripture for me to type up at this point as reference.

more to come when and if I get a chance.

<edited for spelling error>

 

[Vic C.]

Please show us one verse that shows us only 144,000 will be going to heaven. ...and unless you are a student of eschatology, you haven't a clue as to why they are sealed.

As for the rest, you are either misinformed and are not seeing all of what goes on in the inner sanctions or you are lying... especially about materialism and disownment. I've been throught it and had seen what my cousin went through, until God brought to a point when she HAD to confront the family face to face.

There is a "do as I say, not as I do" mentality with many of them. Would you like me to snap some pics and show you how they dress and what they drive? So much for not honoring anything material. There is a congregation 200 feet from where I work, plus one less than a mile from my home. They don't come to my house anymore, since I've been put on their "black list".

You seems to be raptured by their outwardy appearance of doing things for the Kingdom. I've seem them go from mild and meek-mannered to sheer hostility. I've had them cuss at me and call me names... right here on this very Site too. As in most cult-like organizations, they will defend what they are taught and not ask questions. That's not Faith, that's brainwashing.

I assume your next post will be one of wanting to lash out at me... don't bother; I'm outta this thread. Lets just agree to disagree and be courteous to each other while on this Board.

My suggestion is to do some, unbiased study and research for yourself. Also remember:

2 Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Here is some of the absurd things they believe (from "101 Strange Beliefs and Practices of Jehovah's Witnesses" ... written by former JWs) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/reasons.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/

5. Heaven is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses
6. Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians
9. There is no life after death (except for the 144,000)
10. Salvation is by good works not by Grace
12. Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to
13. Jesus did not rise from the dead bodily but as a spirit being
14. You are discouraged from attending college
15. The "first resurrection" occurred in 1918
19. You cannot take a blood transfusion
20. You cannot be a police officer
21. You cannot salute the flag, stand for the national anthem, or own a flag
22. You cannot serve in the military
23. You cannot buy girl Scout cookies
24. You must attend five meetings per week
25. Jesus'second coming occurred in 1914 (only known to Jehovah's Witnesses)
26. You cannot marry a non-Jehovah's Witness
27. If one does not follow the rules of the Watchtower they will be shunned
28. You cannot read Christian literature from a Christian book store
31. You cannot celebrate your birthday
32. You cannot run for or hold a political office
33. You cannot vote in any political campaign
34. You cannot serve on a jury
35. You are discouraged from giving to charity (except Watchtower causes)
36. You cannot speak to former members who are shunned (disfellowshipped)
39. Only Jehovah's Witnesses can understand the Bible
43. You must report your witnessing activity to the elders
45. You cannot have friends who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
48. You cannot understand the Bible without Watchtower literature to explain it
49. A child abuser is reported to Watchtower elders and not the police
51. You are discouraged from buying a two door car-A "Theocratic" or "spiritually strong" Jehovah's Witness will have a full size car for the door to door work
52. Men cannot wear beards
53. Men must wear short hair
54. Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat
56. You forbidden to use any tobacco products
57. Only officially approved sexual practices are allowed in marriage
58. You must appear before a Judicial committee if you are caught breaking Watchtower rules (Secret files are kept on all members which record these meetings-these files are kept in New York and are never destroyed)
60. You cannot read any anti-Jehovah's Witness material
61. You cannot use pet foods made with blood or blood products
64. You cannot purchase Christian products (books, music, plaques, pictures etc.)
66. Jehovah's Witness meeting places have no windows
67. If you see another Jehovah's Witness breaking the rules you must turn them in to the elders to be interrogated
68. Jesus could have sinned and failed in his mission
69. Jesus was not born the savior but became the savior at his baptism
70. The Watchtower organization is God's prophet on earth today
72. You cannot support your country
74. Before baptism, one must answer over 80 questions in front of a panel of elders
75. Most of The Book of Revelation applies to the Jehovah's Witnesses :
76. You cannot celebrate Mothers or Fathers day (it may produce pride) (what ever happened to the 5th. commandment?)
79. God is not omniscient "all knowing"
80. God is not omnipresent
81. God only speaks through the "Governing Body" in Brooklyn, New York
82. The Holy Spirit is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses
83. The Lord's supper is only to be eaten by select Jehovah's Witnesses (144,000 group-99.99% of Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden from taking the Lord's supper)
86. Only faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon
87. If you have a non-Witness spouse your first loyalty is to the elders over your spouse (strange, because above it say one cannot marry a non Witness)
88. Jesus was equal to Adam (just a man)
89. Judgment day is 1000 years long
90. If you leave Jehovah's Witnesses or are expelled from the organization you will not be resurrected
91. Only Jehovah's Witness prayers are heard by God
92. Man's salvation is secondary in God's plan; Jesus was sent to "vindicate Jehovah's name"
93. God will destroy all non-Jehovah's Witnesses at armageddon
94. You forbidden to say "God bless you" when someone sneezes.
95. You must never enter a church building
96. You must never attend a church service
98. You cannot participate in a school play
99. You cannot donate blood or your organs when you die
100. You can never question what is printed in Watchtower literature
101. You are forbidden to attend a funeral of an ex-Jehovah's Witness

-A JW who rejects Watchtower teachings and leaves or is expelled is called "an apostate"
-A JW who breaks any of the Watchtower rules and does not repent to the elders is "disfellowshipped" (Shunned)

:o

 

[beehive2]

I removed this because I have learned the truth. Thank you!

 

[Relic]

.

23. You cannot buy girl Scout cookies

:


.

 

[Relic]

Find cookies for sale in your area:
http://www.girlscoutcookies.org/

If you missed the fundraising for this year, be sure to buy those yummy cookies next time around!


.

 

[beehive2]

Firstly, apologies go out to anyone I had offended. I have been greatly misled. I had gone to the website (http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/) and read this couple's story.

When I found out about this form JW's fill out on prospects they would like to convert, I immediately thought, "No, not our friends...they wouldn't keep a log on us like that". Well, they are. And talk about being very angry?!!! The point was they were helping us learn the bible and understand it more. The point was not to become one of their subjects to convert. When I found that out, I was LIVID. They said even if we do not convert, they will still be our friends? Truth is, if we don’t convert, and we tell them we will never be converted, they are not allowed to be our friends!? How misleading. I was disgusted. I printed the list off this site and I'm going to show this to them on Sunday, I also printed out all of the secret paperwork to show them. ZaksReligion read the list to our friend and he didn't agree on some of it, but I think it's because he is not "educated" enough.

What I would like to know is, what does "Women must submit to the elders" mean? What does that mean? It says in the bible women/wives must submit to their husbands. Is this a completely different meaning than what I am thinking?

We compared bibles last night, from the NWT to the NIV, KJV, KJV concordance and they had completely revised their bible. They have taken out Jesus' exact words, they have replaced any thing "is" with "of"... and what exactly does this 144,000 sealed mean? It is only mentioned in the book of Revelation, however, it's in all the bibles. It stated in Revelation 7 and 14 that 144,00o are sealed, which were of the tribes of Israel, and also how only these 144,000 will learn the song of the trumpets (unsure exactly how it was stated because I'm going from memory and I'm working right now). Can someone explain the 144,000 and the meaning behind that in CHRISTIAN form compared to the JW belief?

Again, apologies all through this thread from anything I have said. I am in no way going to be a listener, but I will start rebutting with my bible on Sunday.

 

[Veritas]

ZaksDarlin wrote:
What I would like to know is, what does "Women must submit to the elders" mean? What does that mean? It says in the bible women/wives must submit to their husbands. Is this a completely different meaning than what I am thinking?

I found this excerpt from http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... i_15953433
Its from a young woman who has turned away from JWs. From the sounds of it she was very hurt, to the point of turning away from all churches. I pray she does have a relationship with Christ and can grow with others in that. Anyways, here is what she said the elders told her parents after they found out her stepfather was beating her mom.

The elders, another name for ministers, visited my home twice on "shepherding calls" to provide "family counseling." During these "counseling sessions" my stepfather claimed that he had been provoked, and my mother's side of the story was overlooked. The elders read Colossians 3:18, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord." The elders sent a clear message to my stepfather: "Submission is all that matters; you are the head of your household." Later he used that scripture to force obedience, as if my mother were a child.

Tragically, they are not reading Colossians in it's entirety. Right after the Bible says "wives to submit to your husbands" it also says:

Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them Colossians 3:19

They also ignored the fact that the Bible tells husbands to be servants to their wives, like Jesus was a servant to us.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. Ephesians 5:25-27

So there you go, even if a wife may be having a bad day and said and did mean things, or even has been "provoking" - you know what a husband is supposed to do? Treat her as a perfect and radiant woman.

Moving on in Ephesians...
...In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mysteryâ€â€but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Ephesians 5:28-33

And although there is a difference between a man and a woman and what they desire and do best in a marriage, the fact is:

The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husbands body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 1 Corinthians 7:4

Maybe I'm getting a little off topic here but it just irks me when people use the "wives submit" as a power trip. Husbands are called to be servants to their wives, even to the point of death, like Jesus.

-edited: stuck a comment in between my Ephesians verses-