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Jesus came back.. and Destroyed Jerusalem

researcher said:
How does this indicate the 1st Century return of Jesus since Christianity had not yet spread to the entire world in 70AD. The "kings of the earth" reference seems to indicate the involvement of all of the earth.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

World
oikoumen?
oy-kou-men'-ay
Feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication of G1093); land, that is, the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman empire: - earth, world.

Also used here:
Luk 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

All the world or the part the Roman Empire controlled?

Titus 2:11 For the saving grace of God was manifested to All men,

Rom 16:26 made known to All nations for the obedience of faith:

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the Whole world.

Col 1:23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister.
If this had happened in 70AD why was the Gospel still being preached after 70AD? Doesn't that indicate that the Gospel hadn't spread to all the world?

[quote:3g0dciji]The "kings of the earth" reference seems to indicate the involvement of all of the earth.

Kings of the earth, or of the Land? [/quote:3g0dciji] Kings of the Earth. I.E. "world"

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Same Greek word used as "Land" in these verses
Land, 33
Mat_2:6, Mat_2:20-21 (2), Mat_4:15 (2), Mat_9:26, Mat_10:15, Mat_11:24, Mat_14:34, Mat_27:45, Luk_21:23, Joh_3:22, Joh_6:21, Joh_21:8-9 (2), Joh_21:11, Act_7:3-4 (3), Act_7:6, Act_7:11, Act_7:29, Act_7:36, Act_7:40, Act_13:17, Act_13:19 (2), Act_27:39, Act_27:43-44 (2), Heb_11:9 (2), Jud_1:5
Sure, there's lots of words in the Greek that have more than one meaning based on context. Or are suggesting other parts of the earth (world) aren't "on land"? :P
 
RND said:
researcher said:
How does this indicate the 1st Century return of Jesus since Christianity had not yet spread to the entire world in 70AD. The "kings of the earth" reference seems to indicate the involvement of all of the earth.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

World
oikoumen?
oy-kou-men'-ay
Feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication of G1093); land, that is, the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman empire: - earth, world.

Also used here:
Luk 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

All the world or the part the Roman Empire controlled?

Titus 2:11 For the saving grace of God was manifested to All men,

Rom 16:26 made known to All nations for the obedience of faith:

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the Whole world.

Col 1:23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister.
If this had happened in 70AD why was the Gospel still being preached after 70AD? Doesn't that indicate that the Gospel hadn't spread to all the world?

[quote:27nvtv00][quote:27nvtv00]The "kings of the earth" reference seems to indicate the involvement of all of the earth.

Kings of the earth, or of the Land? [/quote:27nvtv00] Kings of the Earth. I.E. "world"

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Same Greek word used as "Land" in these verses
Land, 33
Mat_2:6, Mat_2:20-21 (2), Mat_4:15 (2), Mat_9:26, Mat_10:15, Mat_11:24, Mat_14:34, Mat_27:45, Luk_21:23, Joh_3:22, Joh_6:21, Joh_21:8-9 (2), Joh_21:11, Act_7:3-4 (3), Act_7:6, Act_7:11, Act_7:29, Act_7:36, Act_7:40, Act_13:17, Act_13:19 (2), Act_27:39, Act_27:43-44 (2), Heb_11:9 (2), Jud_1:5
Sure, there's lots of words in the Greek that have more than one meaning based on context. Or are suggesting other parts of the earth (world) aren't "on land"? :P[/quote:27nvtv00]

If this had happened in 70AD why was the Gospel still being preached after 70AD? Doesn't that indicate that the Gospel hadn't spread to all the world?

Good point,,,the gospel will not be spread all over the wolrd until these days:::

9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

NOt to mention that if the destruction foretold on the mount,,,was pointing to 70ad ,,,what the heck are we still doing here,,,,I mean come on,,,, are we to believe a generation last from 70ad until 2010 and still counting,,,im not buyin it,, neither is Zecheriah 14.....
 
If this had happened in 70AD why was the Gospel still being preached after 70AD? Doesn't that indicate that the Gospel hadn't spread to all the world?

Remember what his disciples asked him:

Mat 24:1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple,
Mat 24:2 and Jesus said to them, `Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.'
Mat 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?' (YLT)

They asked to know when the temple was going to be destroyed, the signs of his coming, and the end of the age.

He told them what signs would take place before it happened. He didn't say the gospel wouldn't still be preached after that, or "after" the end of the "age."

He also used the word "oikoumen?" for world which is different from the more common word for world used in the NT which is Kosmos. Oikoumen? typically means an area or part of the world such as the Roman Empire. Jesus knew that the gospel would be spread throughout the Roman Empire before the temple was destroyed, and, according to Paul, it was.

oikoumene
G3625
?????????
oikoumen?
Total KJV Occurrences: 15

kosmos
G2889
??????
kosmos
Total KJV Occurrences: 188
world, 185

Oikoumene is almost always used in reference to the "known world" in the NT with very few exceptions.
 
(THE) said:
If this had happened in 70AD why was the Gospel still being preached after 70AD? Doesn't that indicate that the Gospel hadn't spread to all the world?

Good point,,,the gospel will not be spread all over the wolrd until these days:::

9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

NOt to mention that if the destruction foretold on the mount,,,was pointing to 70ad ,,,what the heck are we still doing here,,,,I mean come on,,,, are we to believe a generation last from 70ad until 2010 and still counting,,,im not buyin it,, neither is Zecheriah 14.....

Who was Jesus talking to when he said "in the synagogues you will be beaten"?

Mar 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mar 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple,

Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,


Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say,

Take heed lest any man deceive you:
Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Mar 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

Jesus stood in front of his disciples and told them that they would be beaten in synagogues, brought before kings and councils, and that the Holy Spirit would give them the words to say when it happened. He also said it would happen within the time frame of everything else he was describing.

If those things didn't happen to the disciples, that would make Jesus wrong.

At best if one argues that those things will happen in the future, they would have to argue for a repeat of something that was already fulfilled. Those things HAD to happen to the disciples. Jesus was talking directly to them, and told them that those things would happen to them specifically.

There's just no way around it, lol. :yes :) :thumb
 
researcher said:
If this had happened in 70AD why was the Gospel still being preached after 70AD? Doesn't that indicate that the Gospel hadn't spread to all the world?

Remember what his disciples asked him:

Mat 24:1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple,
Mat 24:2 and Jesus said to them, `Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.'
Mat 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?' (YLT)

They asked to know when the temple was going to be destroyed, the signs of his coming, and the end of the age.

He told them what signs would take place before it happened. He didn't say the gospel wouldn't still be preached after that, or "after" the end of the "age."
End of age is commonly known to be the end of earth's age. The end of the world, not the age ending in 70AD!

He also used the word "oikoumen?" for world which is different from the more common word for world used in the NT which is Kosmos. Oikoumen? typically means an area or part of the world such as the Roman Empire. Jesus knew that the gospel would be spread throughout the Roman Empire before the temple was destroyed, and, according to Paul, it was.

oikoumene
G3625
?????????
oikoumen?
Total KJV Occurrences: 15

kosmos
G2889
??????
kosmos
Total KJV Occurrences: 188
world, 185

Oikoumene is almost always used in reference to the "known world" in the NT with very few exceptions.
The word oikoumene means the land, i.e. the terrene part of the globe.
 
researcher said:
(THE) said:
If this had happened in 70AD why was the Gospel still being preached after 70AD? Doesn't that indicate that the Gospel hadn't spread to all the world?

Good point,,,the gospel will not be spread all over the wolrd until these days:::

9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

NOt to mention that if the destruction foretold on the mount,,,was pointing to 70ad ,,,what the heck are we still doing here,,,,I mean come on,,,, are we to believe a generation last from 70ad until 2010 and still counting,,,im not buyin it,, neither is Zecheriah 14.....

Who was Jesus talking to when he said "in the synagogues you will be beaten"?

Mar 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mar 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple,

Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,


Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say,

Take heed lest any man deceive you:
Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Mar 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

Jesus stood in front of his disciples and told them that they would be beaten in synagogues, brought before kings and councils, and that the Holy Spirit would give them the words to say when it happened. He also said it would happen within the time frame of everything else he was describing.

If those things didn't happen to the disciples, that would make Jesus wrong.

At best if one argues that those things will happen in the future, they would have to argue for a repeat of something that was already fulfilled. Those things HAD to happen to the disciples. Jesus was talking directly to them, and told them that those things would happen to them specifically.

There's just no way around it, lol. :yes :) :thumb

Hey Researcher waz up :popcorn ,,,,before I answer,,,,I wanted to know if you understand the 7 seals,,,,,because they are being released here by Christ Himself,,,,,so If these things have taken place,,,then the 7 seals have also taken place,,,but thats impossible.........
 
I wanted to know if you understand the 7 seals

Insert the word "Land" wherever you see the word "earth" in the 7 seals depiction. It will be a little clearer. ;)

Earth/Land/Region
G1093
??
g?
ghay
Contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application): - country, earth (-ly), ground, land, world.
 
Who was Jesus talking to when he said "in the synagogues you will be beaten"?

He was talking to the disciples about the generation of the fig tree......

This doctrine is going to be awful hard to prove......

Christ said all the things spoken of would happen in 1 generation and that generation wont pass until all those things are fulfilled.....

30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

If I go down the line,,,can you prove every event has already happened????????

If so I would ask when did this happen????

14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

and this??????

26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Remeber all these things happen in one generation,,,,so there is no way we can say some of the events happened in 70ad while we are still waiting for the rest of them to transpire....

1,939 years is a very long generation dont you think.......

29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

at the doors??????? you mean this has been nigh and at the doors for 1,939 years,,,maybe someone cant find the key.....
 
(THE) said:
Who was Jesus talking to when he said "in the synagogues you will be beaten"?

He was talking to the disciples about the generation of the fig tree......

Mat 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives,

the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?' (YLT)

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answering said to them,

`Take heed that no one may lead you astray,
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Go back to the start of the chapter. Who's he talking to? He told the disciples that when they saw these things, take note of it, because it is close. He didn't say, "the people living in that time take note," or "when 'They' see all these things, they will know it is near," he said, "when you," and Peter and James and John were standing right there.

Jesus could have phrased in a lot of different ways to make it inexplicably clear, but he didn't. He said "you" right to the disciples faces. Lol.

The parable of the fig tree was not a reference to a far future event. It was an example for them explained in terms they could understand.

Christ said all the things spoken of would happen in 1 generation and that generation wont pass until all those things are fulfilled.....

The temple was destroyed in 1 generation, yes.

30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

If I go down the line,,,can you prove every event has already happened????????

With notes from historians who lived in that day, most can be proven.

If so I would ask when did this happen????

14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Flee Judaea. Jerusalem was in the province of Judaea. The Roman legions and their auxiliary legions would be there. They killed almost everyone.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mat 24:15 "So when you see the destructive desecration, mentioned by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place (let the reader take note), (ISV)

Luk 21:20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.

Desolation
G2050
????????
er?m?sis
er-ay'-mo-sis
From G2049; despoliation: - desolation.

G2049
??????
er?mo?
er-ay-mo'-o
From G2048; to lay waste (literally or figuratively): - (bring to, make) desolate (-ion), come to nought.

Commentaries

The reference here is probably to the occupation of the temple precincts by the idolatrous Romans under Titus, with their standards and ensigns. Josephus says that, after the burning of the temple the Romans brought their ensigns and set them over against the eastern gate, and there they offered sacrifices to them, and declared Titus, with acclamations, to be emperor.


Marvin R. Vincent, D.D.
Baldwin Professor of Sacred Literature in Union Theological Seminary New York.


Mat 24:15 When ye see the abomination of desolation - Daniel's term is, The abomination that maketh desolate, Dan_11:31; that is, the standards of the desolating legions, on which they bear the abominable images of their idols: Standing in the holy place - Not only the temple and the mountain on which it stood, but the whole city of Jerusalem, and several furlongs of land round about it, were accounted holy; particularly the mount on which our Lord now sat, and on which the Romans afterward planted their ensigns. He that readeth let him understand - Whoever reads that prophecy of Daniel, let him deeply consider it. Mar_13:14; Luk_21:20; Dan_9:27.

John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible


Mat 24:15
The abomination of desolation - This is a Hebrew expression, meaning an abominable or hateful destroyer. The Gentiles were all held in abomination by the Jews, Act_10:28. The abomination of desolation means the Roman army, and is so explained by Luk_21:20. The Roman army is further called the “abomination†on account of the images of the emperor, and the eagles, carried in front of the legions, and regarded by the Romans with divine honors.
Spoken of by Daniel the prophet - Dan_9:26-27; Dan_11:31; Dan_12:11, see the notes at those passages.
Standing in the holy place - Mark says, standing where it ought not,†meaning the same thing. All Jerusalem was esteemed “holy,†Mat_4:5. The meaning of this is, when you see the Roman armies standing in the holy city or encamped around the temple, or the Roman ensigns or standards in the temple. Josephus relates that when the city was taken, the Romans brought their idols into the temple, and placed them over the eastern gate, and sacrificed to them there, “Jewish Wars,†b. 6 chapter 6, section 1.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Albert Barnes (1798-1870)


Mat 24:15
The abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel - This abomination of desolation, St. Luke, (Luk_21:20, Luk_21:21), refers to the Roman army; and this abomination standing in the holy place is the Roman army besieging Jerusalem;

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Adam Clarke, LL.D., F.S.A., (1715-1832)


the Roman army is designed; see Luk_21:20 which was the ??? ?????? ????, "the wing", or "army of abominations making desolate", Dan_9:27. Armies are called wings, Isa_8:8 and the Roman armies were desolating ones to the Jews, and to whom they were an abomination; not only because they consisted of Heathen men, and uncircumcised persons, but chiefly because of the images of their gods, which were upon their ensigns: for images and idols were always an abomination to them; so the "filthiness" which Hezekiah ordered to be carried out of the holy place, 2Ch_29:5 is by the Targum called, ??????, "an abomination"; and this, by the Jewish writers (w), is said to be an idol,

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Dr. John Gill (1690-1771)


Most commentators already believe Jesus was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD here.

and this??????

26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Yes, this would have happened over Jerusalem or Judaea. The people still alive there would have seen it. The whole thing is about Jerusalem and the Jews.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth (LAND) mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

All the tribes of the earth mourn - That is, either all the “tribes or people†of the land of Judea shall mourn at the great calamities coming upon them, or all the nations of the world shall wail when he comes to judgment. All the wicked shall mourn at the prospect of their doom, Rev_1:7. The cause of their wailing at the day of judgment will be chiefly that they have pierced, killed, rejected the Saviour, and that they deserve the condemnation that is coming upon them, Joh_19:37; Zec_12:12.
And they shall see the Son of man - The Lord Jesus coming to judgment. Probably this refers more directly to his coming at the last day, though it may also mean that the “evidence†of his coming to destroy Jerusalem will then be seen.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Albert Barnes (1798-1870)

Mat 24:30
Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man - The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of Divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ’s power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of this manifestation of God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By ??? ???, of the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places, the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the Jewish people wherever found.

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Adam Clarke, LL.D., F.S.A., (1715-1832)

And then shall the tribes of the earth, or land,
mourn; that is, the land of Judea; for other lands, and countries, were not usually divided into tribes,
as that was; neither were they affected with the calamities and desolations of it, and the vengeance of the son of man upon it; at least not so as to mourn on that account, but rather were glad and rejoiced:

and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. The Arabic version reads it, "ye shall see", as is expressed by Christ, in Mat_26:64. Where the high priest, chief priests, Scribes, and elders, and the whole sanhedrim of the Jews are spoken to: and as the same persons, namely, the Jews, are meant here as there; so the same coming of the son of man is intended; not his coming at the last day to judgment; though that will be in the clouds of heaven, and with great power and glory; but his coming to bring on, and give the finishing stroke to the destruction of that people, which was a dark and cloudy dispensation to them: and when they felt the power of his arm, might, if not blind and stupid to the last degree, see the glory of his person, that he was more than a mere man,

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Dr. John Gill (1690-1771)



Remeber all these things happen in one generation,,,,so there is no way we can say some of the events happened in 70ad while we are still waiting for the rest of them to transpire....

1,939 years is a very long generation dont you think.......

[quote:3rgi2jqq]29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

at the doors??????? you mean this has been nigh and at the doors for 1,939 years,,,maybe someone cant find the key.....[/quote:3rgi2jqq]

Jesus told the scribes and pharisees that he would be back to kill them

Mar 12:1 And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
Mar 12:2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.
Mar 12:3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
Mar 12:4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.
Mar 12:5 And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.
Mar 12:6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mar 12:7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
Mar 12:8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do?

he will come

and destroy the husbandmen,

and will give the vineyard unto others.


:yes

It's obvious these things had to have happened. Jesus said they would and he said they would happen in the time of the disciples. It's just not what most people thought it would be. :yes Too many scary movies about being "left behind," and some overblown imaginations. ;) :) :yes :approve
 
(THE) said:
NOt to mention that if the destruction foretold on the mount,,,was pointing to 70ad ,,,what the heck are we still doing here,,,,I mean come on,,,, are we to believe a generation last from 70ad until 2010 and still counting,,,im not buyin it,, neither is Zecheriah 14.....

That's just it bro, quite a few Preterists don't recognize the Zechariah 14 Scripture as still future. We must not forget that Preterists have a 'special license'. When a Bible scripture doesn't fit Preterist doctrine, the special license comes into play, and it's OK to say the scripture in question was only meant in the "spiritual sense", or was past history. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.)
 
Relying too much on the old Bible commentaries from those like Albert Barnes, Adam Clarke, etc. can be dangerous in today's times. They didn't get to live in our times today and see many of the signs only today's generation on earth has been given. If they had lived in today's times, I'm certain 'portions of their understanding of Bible prophecy would have been different. However, E.W. Bullinger who also lived in the 1800's, lot of his understanding about prophecy for the end is hanging in there pretty close. One difference between Bullinger and other Bible scolars of his days might be Bullinger's grasp of the Massorah notes within some copies of the Old Testament Hebrew manuscripts (see Appendixes in The Companion Bible, the KJV study Bible Bullinger put together). That might not have been available to Barnes, Clarke et al.
 
Also, the "abomination of desolation" per the Book of Daniel, which our Lord Jesus referenced in Matthew 24, is specifically about the setting up of false worship in the temple in Jeruslaem, with the placing of an idol in the holy place (inner sanctuary, holy of holies). That's the example per the Book of Daniel.

The erroneous idea that the "abomination of desolation" just means a literal destruction is not the meaning in Daniel...

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
(KJV)

Dan 12:11
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
(KJV)


In Matt.24, our Lord Jesus was giving a parallel to the signs He gave in His Book of Revelation. Revelation 13 specifically mentions the setting up of the image of the beast for the purpose of false worship. Thus the 'desolate' idea in Daniel is specifically about the spiritual desolation that comes from idol worship. The temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. before the Romans ever had a chance setup an idol in the sancturary.
 
veteran said:
Relying too much on the old Bible commentaries from those like Albert Barnes, Adam Clarke, etc. can be dangerous in today's times. They didn't get to live in our times today and see many of the signs only today's generation on earth has been given. If they had lived in today's times, I'm certain 'portions of their understanding of Bible prophecy would have been different. However, E.W. Bullinger who also lived in the 1800's, lot of his understanding about prophecy for the end is hanging in there pretty close. One difference between Bullinger and other Bible scolars of his days might be Bullinger's grasp of the Massorah notes within some copies of the Old Testament Hebrew manuscripts (see Appendixes in The Companion Bible, the KJV study Bible Bullinger put together). That might not have been available to Barnes, Clarke et al.

I agree,,,this kind of thinking makes void alot of the bible..... Indeed Bullinger had a leg up on the other scholars because Ginsberg only choose him to translate into english he would not allow any others......Albert barnes ,,huh :confused Adam Clarke ,,,who :shrug never heard of the dudes....

I will have to google them,,,but from the trail being left ,,I dont think il be studying wit them.... :shame
 
Ok Researcher well I would first like to see historical evidence of the AOD taking place.....

WHen did it happen,,in what year????????

The daily oblation and sacrifice is what we call holy communion ,,,so I will need evidence of someone taking away that.....

Daniel 9:26 "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
 
I was wondering,,,if people think that all these things happen in 70AD does that mean preterists believe that the next event will be Christ return?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

THat could be very dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
researcher said:
Jesus told the scribes and pharisees that he would be back to kill them

Mar 12:1 And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
Mar 12:2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.
Mar 12:3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
Mar 12:4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.
Mar 12:5 And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.
Mar 12:6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mar 12:7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
Mar 12:8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do?

he will come
Jesus was the "son" in this parable that was killed. The owner of the vineyard would return to utterly destroy those that killed the son.

You and I had a hand in killing the Son through our sin.

and destroy the husbandmen,

and will give the vineyard unto others.
God indeed destroyed those in charge of the vineyard and gave it to others.

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

The gentile world was not destroyed in 70AD.
 
(THE) said:
I was wondering,,,if people think that all these things happen in 70AD does that mean preterists believe that the next event will be Christ return?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

THat could be very dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to the preterist Jesus must be coming back a third time.
 
RND said:
(THE) said:
I was wondering,,,if people think that all these things happen in 70AD does that mean preterists believe that the next event will be Christ return?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

THat could be very dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to the preterist Jesus must be coming back a third time.

Thats just crazy,,,,I ask because If they believe matthew 24 has happened,,,then they believe the AOD has happen,,,,,if the AOD has happen that means satan has been kicked out and is here on earth....

That means that when satan really does get kicked out,,, preterist might belive satan is Christ because there chronolical order of ending events is all screwy....

I get the feeling preterist believe the next huge event will be Christ returned,,,if thats the case there going to get a big surprise when the 7th trump actually blows........
 
(THE) said:
Thats just crazy,,,,I ask because If they believe matthew 24 has happened,,,then they believe the AOD has happen,,,,,if the AOD has happen that means satan has been kicked out and is here on earth....
Proof that Satan was kicked out of heaven is the fact he appeared in the Garden of Eden. The AOD is at this time being set up.

That means that when satan really does get kicked out,,, preterist might belive satan is Christ because there chronolical order of ending events is all screwy....
(THE) Jesus never stated anything about Satan being kicked out of heaven in Mat. 24.

I get the feeling preterist believe the next huge event will be Christ returned,,,if thats the case there going to get a big surprise when the 7th trump actually blows........
That I agree with. Preterist's are sorely in error.
 
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