Jesus could have been disapproved.

[Runningman]

Repeating a failed argument doesn't win the debate. Find one quote where Gesenius denies the Holy Trinity. Be certain to provide the precise denial and where it appears.

Means to say, your argument hasn't been refuted to your "satisfaction" which is the response from almost everyone when their beliefs aren't affirmed. On this subject there are either skeptics or believers. You are skeptical of what I presented you. Nevertheless, what I presented to you is all true according to Scripture.

Christ often explained He and the Father are one, and like you the Jews wanted to stone Him for it:
30 "I and My Father are one."
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God." (Jn. 10:30-33 NKJ)

They were right, Jesus was making Himself to be God. But as the Master of Street Preaching, He deflects the mob by quoting scripture to "take the wind out of their sails" because had they cast stones angels would have killed them on the spot (Mt. 26:53-54).

To save their lives Jesus quotes scripture to confuse them:
34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law,`I said, "You are gods "'?
35 "If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world,`You are blaspheming,' because I said,`I am the Son of God '? (Jn. 10:34-36 NKJ)

But this in no way denied He was saying He is God, God the Son. But it did stop them from throwing stones, saving their lives.

Jesus wasn't making himself out to be God nor was Jesus being God a belief that early Christians held. Jesus never directly said "I am God" no one ever directly said to Jesus "You are God" and no one in the Bible called Jesus God thereafter.

On the matter of the narrative in John 10, contrary to their false accusations, Jesus debunked their talking points much like how Jesus debunked your talking point, by directly contradicting their claims and therefore Jesus denied being God. The Son of God and God are distinct in Scripture. One is God and the other is not God. That's why in plain English grammar "of God" refers to the relationship between one person and another, indicating Jesus is associated with God and belongs to God, but is not the same person as God.

Jesus contradicted their false accusations:

John 10​

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? ​

This has nothing to do with Trinitarianism. We have already plainly established that Trinitarianism is unprecedented in the Bible so your premise doesn't follow to its conclusion. The onessness Jesus has with God, the disciples shared, and also Paul said it as well.

John 17​

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.​

​

1 Corinthians 6​

17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.​

They were on the brink of fire coming down from heaven to consume them.

Merciful Jesus saved them, but He does not leave without wryly repeating His claim to be one with God, the only begotten Son of the Father:
37 "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38 "but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."
39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. (Jn. 10:37-39 NKJ)

There is no claim to be God one time by Jesus. Actually Jesus directly denied being God. Of course, I don't believe you will believe Jesus on this point. Nevertheless, Jesus deflected and said that only one is good in the objective sense of the word, that is God alone. The one who Jesus said is God is the Father.

Mark 10​

18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. ​

​

John 17​

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.​

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Jesus wasn't making himself out to be God

Then He would have had to prove it and that means judgment day, because no man will see Him as He truly is and live.

Besides this, His great example of humility in serving even His enemies without condemning them is exactly what our Father does every day...unless He takes some in judgment...which is what the Son has done and continues to do.

It's fine to compare Jesus with other servants of God, except for one distinction,

He that is without sin among you...Jn.8:7 KJV

Runningman
Here's an idea. In the parable where the landowner wants the unfruitful tree uprooted (Lk.13:6-9) why are the landowner and caretaker (Father and Son) not in agreement and why does the Sons' will prevail over the Fathers'?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Means to say, your argument hasn't been refuted to your "satisfaction" which is the response from almost everyone when their beliefs aren't affirmed. On this subject there are either skeptics or believers. You are skeptical of what I presented you. Nevertheless, what I presented to you is all true according to Scripture.

Find one quote where Gesenius denies the Holy Trinity. Be certain to provide the precise denial and where it appears.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jesus wasn't making himself out to be God nor was Jesus being God a belief that early Christians held. Jesus never directly said "I am God" no one ever directly said to Jesus "You are God" and no one in the Bible called Jesus God thereafter.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Jn. 1:1 NKJ)

And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" (Jn. 20:28 NKJ)

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. (1 Tim. 3:16 NKJ)

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. (1 Jn. 5:20 NKJ)

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:7-8 NKJ)

 

[Runningman]

Find one quote where Gesenius denies the Holy Trinity. Be certain to provide the precise denial and where it appears.

No need to even talk about the Trinity by Genesenius since the concept of a Trinity God is completely foreign in the Bible. It doesn't exist in Jewish theology so it wouldn't suddenly appear in Hebrew grammar. The topic of the Trinity is unrelated to Hebrew grammar. Trinitarian philosophy only exists in Catholic, Protestant, and some other miscellaneous sects of Christianity, but it's not directly explained or described in Scripture.

You don't consider this a "satisfactory" enough rejection of the possibility of a Trinity?

"That the language has entirely rejected the idea of numerical plurality in Elohim (whenever it denotes one God), is proved especially by its being almost invariably joined with a singular attribute"

 

[Runningman]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Jn. 1:1 NKJ)

There is a lot of context to this, but that doesn't say Jesus is God. John was careful to call the Word God here. John demonstrated he doesn't believe Jesus is God in some things he said. Acts 4:23-28 John prayed to the Sovereign Lord and Creator and just called Jesus His servant. 1 John 1:1-4 the Word of Life is referred to as a thing that was manifested in Jesus.

And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" (Jn. 20:28 NKJ)

In John 20:17 Jesus said his and his brothers God is the Father, but closely note that in John 20:28 Thomas didn't say "you" are God nor was that something Jesus taught Thomas.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. (1 Tim. 3:16 NKJ)

This verse doesn't exist in modern Bible versions. As much as I like the KJV and NKJV, it was actually proven to be a forgery.

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. (1 Jn. 5:20 NKJ)

Person 1 = Son
of
Person 2 = God

So when this verse says "this " or "he" is the true God it's referring back to the previously mentioned God which would be the Father.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:7-8 NKJ)

Revelation 1:4-8 says the Almighty is isnt the same person as Jesus. The Lord "which is, and which was, and which is to come" in verse 8 is described as a different person from Jesus Christ in verse 5. That means the Almighty isn't Jesus.

4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

[Runningman]

Runningman
Here's an idea. In the parable where the landowner wants the unfruitful tree uprooted (Lk.13:6-9) why are the landowner and caretaker (Father and Son) not in agreement and why does the Sons' will prevail over the Fathers'?

Just check out John 15:1-8. The unfruitful tree is actually a person given a chance to prove they are a disciple of Jesus. It's also a lesson to not test the patience of God. He will eventually start uprooting trees, cutting off branches, etc.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Just check out John 15:1-8. The unfruitful tree is actually a person given a chance to prove they are a disciple of Jesus. It's also a lesson to not test the patience of God. He will eventually start uprooting trees, cutting off branches, etc.

I fully agree. Now look at how the Messiahs' "patience was tested" by being dishonored by sinners. Stripped naked, beaten and executed for no lawful reason.
So the parable shows the farmer (Jesus) reminding the landowner (Father) how merciful the God is...in comparison to men.

The uprooting occurs ar His next appearing.

 

[Alfred Persson]

This verse doesn't exist in modern Bible versions. As much as I like the KJV and NKJV, it was actually proven to be a forgery.

That is incorrect:

1 Timothy 3:16
Ὃς ἐφανερώθη

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:God was manifested in the flesh,Justified in the Spirit,Seen by angels,Preached among the Gentiles,Believed on in the world,Received up in glory.

The manuscript evidence is split between two primary options. Instead of “who was revealed,” some manuscripts have “God was revealed.” One manuscript has “which was revealed.” With the two primary options, there is little interpretive difference, as most interpreters resolve the pronoun referent as the deity, though that deity is typically Christ (as the context demands) and not “God.”-Brannan, R., & Loken, I. (2014). The Lexham Textual Notes on the Bible (1 Ti 3:16). Lexham Press.

Jesus (=God, He) was manifest in the flesh, therefore all the variants prove you wrong.

But those of us confident the Majority Text is the best text, agree with the KJV reading against the minority paltry few mss that were discovered (cast away as garbage) texts, in monasteries and ancient trash heaps or fabricated by modern editors.

 

[Runningman]

That is incorrect:

1 Timothy 3:16
Ὃς ἐφανερώθη

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:God was manifested in the flesh,Justified in the Spirit,Seen by angels,Preached among the Gentiles,Believed on in the world,Received up in glory.

The manuscript evidence is split between two primary options. Instead of “who was revealed,” some manuscripts have “God was revealed.” One manuscript has “which was revealed.” With the two primary options, there is little interpretive difference, as most interpreters resolve the pronoun referent as the deity, though that deity is typically Christ (as the context demands) and not “God.”-Brannan, R., & Loken, I. (2014). The Lexham Textual Notes on the Bible (1 Ti 3:16). Lexham Press.

Jesus (=God, He) was manifest in the flesh, therefore all the variants prove you wrong.

But those of us confident the Majority Text is the best text, agree with the KJV reading against the minority paltry few mss that were discovered (cast away as garbage) texts, in monasteries and ancient trash heaps or fabricated by modern editors.

This would be a minority opinion. I encourage to read some of the commentaries on this by people with credentials.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

1 Timothy 3:16

"God was manifest in the flesh.—Here, in the most ancient authorities, the word “God” does not occur. We must, then, literally translate the Greek of the most famous and trustworthy MSS. as follows: He who was manifested in the flesh. In the later MSS., and in the great majority of the fathers who cite the passage, we certainly find Theos (“God”), as in the Received text. The substitution can be traced to no special doctrinal prejudice, but is owing, probably, to a well-meant correction of early scribes. At first sight, Theos (“God”) would be a reading easier to understand, and grammatically more exact; and in the original copies, the great similitude between ΘC (“God”)—the contracted form in which ΘEOC was written—and the relative ΘC (“He who”), would be likely to suggest to an officious scribe the very trifling alteration necessary for the easier and apparently more accurate word. Recent investigations have shown, however, beyond controversy that the oldest MSS., with scarcely an exception, contain the more difficult reading, ΘC (“He who”)."

 

[LeviR]

This would be a minority opinion. I encourage to read some of the commentaries on this by people with credentials.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

1 Timothy 3:16

"God was manifest in the flesh.—Here, in the most ancient authorities, the word “God” does not occur. We must, then, literally translate the Greek of the most famous and trustworthy MSS. as follows: He who was manifested in the flesh. In the later MSS., and in the great majority of the fathers who cite the passage, we certainly find Theos (“God”), as in the Received text. The substitution can be traced to no special doctrinal prejudice, but is owing, probably, to a well-meant correction of early scribes. At first sight, Theos (“God”) would be a reading easier to understand, and grammatically more exact; and in the original copies, the great similitude between ΘC (“God”)—the contracted form in which ΘEOC was written—and the relative ΘC (“He who”), would be likely to suggest to an officious scribe the very trifling alteration necessary for the easier and apparently more accurate word. Recent investigations have shown, however, beyond controversy that the oldest MSS., with scarcely an exception, contain the more difficult reading, ΘC (“He who”)."

We really need to allow the scriptures themself to inform our understanding.
“God was manifest in the flesh” is correct.

God was first manifest in the flesh by word, deed and spirit. He was finally manifest by eternal life of a mortal body raised from the dead.

2Co 4:10 - Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

2Co 4:11 - For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Well, there I go again.

 

[Free]

False. God is just one person known as the Father as John 17:3, Ephesians 4:6, and 1 Corinthians 8:6 say.

Check out Exodus 7:1, Exodus 22:20, Judges 6:31, Judges 11:24, and 1 Samuel 5:7. Elohim can refer to single beings. Why elohim is a plural word and yet YHWH is clear about being a singular person who created alone is because elohim refers to intensification or amplification. That's why elohim is attributed to a singular person.

Isaiah 44
24Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Renowned Hebrew scholar Gesenius said so. There isn't a greater authority on Hebrew than him.

"That the language has entirely rejected the idea of numerical plurality in Elohim (whenever it denotes one God), is proved especially by its being almost invariably joined with a singular attribute"

Gesenius’ Hebrew Grammar (Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1910), p. 399.

Furthermore, men and YHWH being in proximity doesn't necessitate one being the other. For example, where men and YHWH are mentioned in the same context, we can rightly conclude that God is still not a man and a man is still not God. For Scripture plainly states God is not a man or the son of man.

Numbers 23
19God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,

Hosea 11
9I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man;

Additionally, provided that people who are themselves made in the image of God, are not themselves 3 persons in one being. We each are one person just like God is.

Then provide just one verse that proves God is only one person. No anti-Trinitarianism on these forums has yet been able to do so.

 

[LeviR]

Then provide just one verse that proves God is only one person. No anti-Trinitarianism on these forums has yet been able to do so.

Here’s is someone on the web trying to explain the Trinity.
He says:
“God is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. The Father is God. Jesus (the Son) is God. The Holy Spirit is God. ONLY the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God.”

He says “ONLY the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God”

Not that ONLY the Father is God. That would excludes the others.

But the Scripture doesn’t speak like the Trinitarian because it says “The Father is the ONLY true God.”

 

[Alfred Persson]

This would be a minority opinion. I encourage to read some of the commentaries on this by people with credentials.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

1 Timothy 3:16

"God was manifest in the flesh.—Here, in the most ancient authorities, the word “God” does not occur. We must, then, literally translate the Greek of the most famous and trustworthy MSS. as follows: He who was manifested in the flesh. In the later MSS., and in the great majority of the fathers who cite the passage, we certainly find Theos (“God”), as in the Received text. The substitution can be traced to no special doctrinal prejudice, but is owing, probably, to a well-meant correction of early scribes. At first sight, Theos (“God”) would be a reading easier to understand, and grammatically more exact; and in the original copies, the great similitude between ΘC (“God”)—the contracted form in which ΘEOC was written—and the relative ΘC (“He who”), would be likely to suggest to an officious scribe the very trifling alteration necessary for the easier and apparently more accurate word. Recent investigations have shown, however, beyond controversy that the oldest MSS., with scarcely an exception, contain the more difficult reading, ΘC (“He who”)."

I bolded in red font the weightier evidence, mss Christians actually used. The so called "oldest MSS" are a minority of mss hardly no one used, or didn't use at all that were "discovered" in the Vatican or Monastery shelves of unused texts, or ME garbage dumps. The implication we draw from such non-use is they contained so many errors Christians wouldn't use them or threw them away. Unfortunately, that "non-use" preserved them for modern critics.

The tide is turning against the 18th-19th century scholars like Ellicot, the premise "the more difficult reading" has lost support. I always find the grammatically correct easier reading far superior to the alleged "difficult reading" AND you will note Ellicot observes the easier reading is "grammatically more exact".

In effect, Ellicot prefers to introduce grammatical error into the NT, rather than follow the Bible the Church Fathers used. That is incredibly stupid.

AND Lexham is the latest data, not Ellicot who died in 1905.

About the Authors​

Rick Brannan is Information Architect for Logos Bible Software. In his role at Logos, he is responsible for linguistic databases of the Greek New Testament, the Septuagint, and other Greek writings of the Hellenistic era. He is also Product Manager for the Lexham English Bible and the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition. Rick has edited multiple works including The New International Version English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the New Testament, The Lexham English Bible English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the New Testament, and An English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the Apostolic Fathers. He also translated the Greek portions of the writings of the Apostolic Fathers for The Apostolic Fathers Greek-English Interlinear. He resides in Bellingham with his wife, Amy, and their daughter, Ella.

Israel P. Loken was born in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin, to a strong Christian family, where his father worked as general manager of a large Christian radio station. Then the family moved to Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to launch another Christian radio station. It was there that Israel attended Lancaster Bible College before completing his masters and doctoral degrees at Dallas Seminary. Today he is the chair of the Bible and Theology departments at the College of Biblical Studies in Houston, where he helped begin the schools undergraduate program.

 

[LeviR]

I bolded in red font the weightier evidence, mss Christians actually used. The so called "oldest MSS" are a minority of mss hardly no one used, or didn't use at all that were "discovered" in the Vatican or Monastery shelves of unused texts, or ME garbage dumps. The implication we draw from such non-use is they contained so many errors Christians wouldn't use them or threw them away. Unfortunately, that "non-use" preserved them for modern critics.

The tide is turning against the 18th-19th century scholars like Ellicot, the premise "the more difficult reading" has lost support. I always find the grammatically correct easier reading far superior to the alleged "difficult reading" AND you will note Ellicot observes the easier reading is "grammatically more exact".

In effect, Ellicot prefers to introduce grammatical error into the NT, rather than follow the Bible the Church Fathers used. That is incredibly stupid.

AND Lexham is the latest data, not Ellicot who died in 1905.

About the Authors​

Rick Brannan is Information Architect for Logos Bible Software. In his role at Logos, he is responsible for linguistic databases of the Greek New Testament, the Septuagint, and other Greek writings of the Hellenistic era. He is also Product Manager for the Lexham English Bible and the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition. Rick has edited multiple works including The New International Version English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the New Testament, The Lexham English Bible English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the New Testament, and An English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the Apostolic Fathers. He also translated the Greek portions of the writings of the Apostolic Fathers for The Apostolic Fathers Greek-English Interlinear. He resides in Bellingham with his wife, Amy, and their daughter, Ella.

Israel P. Loken was born in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin, to a strong Christian family, where his father worked as general manager of a large Christian radio station. Then the family moved to Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to launch another Christian radio station. It was there that Israel attended Lancaster Bible College before completing his masters and doctoral degrees at Dallas Seminary. Today he is the chair of the Bible and Theology departments at the College of Biblical Studies in Houston, where he helped begin the schools undergraduate program.

“Jesus is God” would be the reply of just about anyone I could ask.
But Jesus is not alone God.
So everyone who would answer me the question “who is Jesus” with the reply “Jesus is God” would be giving me an incomplete answer without most of them even knowing it.
The reason for this is that Trinitarians say, the Father is God, the Son is God , the Holy Spirit is God.
The catch is, that none of them is alone God, because God is only one.
If I were to teach Trinitarianism I would never say, the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.
I would ONLY say the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God.
But that doesn’t match up too well with Scripture, does it?

 

[Alfred Persson]

“Jesus is God” would be the reply of just about anyone I could ask.
But Jesus is not alone God.
So everyone who would answer me the question “who is Jesus” with the reply “Jesus is God” would be giving me an incomplete answer without most of them even knowing it.
The reason for this is that Trinitarians say, the Father is God, the Son is God , the Holy Spirit is God.
The catch is, that none of them is alone God, because God is only one.
If I were to teach Trinitarianism I would never say, the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.
I would ONLY say the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God.
But that doesn’t match up too well with Scripture, does it?

Your argument confuses Person with Being, there is only One essence that is God and in it are three divine persons equally subsisting.

The Person of the Father, Son or Holy Spirit is God because He subsists in the One divine essence that is God.

Yahweh is God, Father Son and Holy Spirit. That matches scripture perfectly. Christians are baptized in the Compound Unity of Yahweh who is One Name (singular) but three are named: Father Son and Holy Spirit:

19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matt. 28:19-20 NKJ)

 

[Runningman]

We really need to allow the scriptures themself to inform our understanding.
“God was manifest in the flesh” is correct.

God was first manifest in the flesh by word, deed and spirit. He was finally manifest by eternal life of a mortal body raised from the dead.

2Co 4:10 - Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

2Co 4:11 - For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Well, there I go again.

Well, 1 Timothy 3:16's "God was manifested in the flesh" is actually a later edition. They actually have proof of the edited manuscript. Scholars generally agree this is the case.

Whether or not one believes it is philosophically true is another issue.

In what sense do you believe God manifested in the flesh?

 

[Runningman]

I bolded in red font the weightier evidence, mss Christians actually used. The so called "oldest MSS" are a minority of mss hardly no one used, or didn't use at all that were "discovered" in the Vatican or Monastery shelves of unused texts, or ME garbage dumps. The implication we draw from such non-use is they contained so many errors Christians wouldn't use them or threw them away. Unfortunately, that "non-use" preserved them for modern critics.

The tide is turning against the 18th-19th century scholars like Ellicot, the premise "the more difficult reading" has lost support. I always find the grammatically correct easier reading far superior to the alleged "difficult reading" AND you will note Ellicot observes the easier reading is "grammatically more exact".

In effect, Ellicot prefers to introduce grammatical error into the NT, rather than follow the Bible the Church Fathers used. That is incredibly stupid.

AND Lexham is the latest data, not Ellicot who died in 1905.

About the Authors​

Rick Brannan is Information Architect for Logos Bible Software. In his role at Logos, he is responsible for linguistic databases of the Greek New Testament, the Septuagint, and other Greek writings of the Hellenistic era. He is also Product Manager for the Lexham English Bible and the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition. Rick has edited multiple works including The New International Version English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the New Testament, The Lexham English Bible English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the New Testament, and An English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the Apostolic Fathers. He also translated the Greek portions of the writings of the Apostolic Fathers for The Apostolic Fathers Greek-English Interlinear. He resides in Bellingham with his wife, Amy, and their daughter, Ella.

Israel P. Loken was born in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin, to a strong Christian family, where his father worked as general manager of a large Christian radio station. Then the family moved to Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to launch another Christian radio station. It was there that Israel attended Lancaster Bible College before completing his masters and doctoral degrees at Dallas Seminary. Today he is the chair of the Bible and Theology departments at the College of Biblical Studies in Houston, where he helped begin the schools undergraduate program.

Already been through this debate before. You will quote your sources, I'll quote my sources, I'll show you the photograph of the edited manuscript, you'll deny it, and neither of us will let go of our beliefs.

I say that based on the preponderance of evidence against the deity of Jesus that he isn't God. I didn't write the Bible, I didn't wake up one day with this preference, etc. I simply accept that what the Bible says. If the Bible said Jesus is God I would actually readily accept it and preach it everywhere, but it doesn't. No way could I preach that with a good conscience. Apparently Jesus and his followers felt the same as I do.

All of the prooftexts of Jesus' alleged deity are actually theologically arguments. What is sure and explicit are things like John 17:1-3 that directly identify who the only true God is. That is what I believe.

 

[Runningman]

Then provide just one verse that proves God is only one person. No anti-Trinitarianism on these forums has yet been able to do so.

The Bible directly calls the Father the only true God and the Father is a person. (John 17:1-3)

This very basically means God is one person.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Already been through this debate before. You will quote your sources, I'll quote my sources, I'll show you the photograph of the edited manuscript, you'll deny it, and neither of us will let go of our beliefs.

I say that based on the preponderance of evidence against the deity of Jesus that he isn't God. I didn't write the Bible, I didn't wake up one day with this preference, etc. I simply accept that what the Bible says. If the Bible said Jesus is God I would actually readily accept it and preach it everywhere, but it doesn't. No way could I preach that with a good conscience. Apparently Jesus and his followers felt the same as I do.

All of the prooftexts of Jesus' alleged deity are actually theologically arguments. What is sure and explicit are things like John 17:1-3 that directly identify who the only true God is. That is what I believe.

Those who deny the Holy Trinity reject the Jesus of Scripture: Jesus knows all things, He proved He knows the future. Recall He predicted Peter would deny Him thrice before a rooster crowed (Mt. 26:75) or that they all would be scattered:

30 "Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God."
31 Jesus answered them, "Do you now believe?
32 "Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me.
33 "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." (Jn. 16:28-33 NKJ)

Therefore, when Jesus commanded His disciples baptize in the compound unity of the Name of God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, He knew Trinitarians would cite it for proof of the Holy Trinity:

19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matt. 28:19-20 NKJ)