Jesus' humanity

[Edward]

Mrs Adam (she was not called Eve until later) sinned because she was deceived; she was told a lie and believed it:

1 Timothy 2:14
And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

The definition of deception is to believe a lie to be the truth. And there is a theory out there (again, not clear in scripture) that Adam CHOSE to disobey to remain with his wife; knowing that she would die for her disobedience and leave him alone again.

I believe that Adam sinned knowingly. Probably mostly for Love of his Wife! He Loved that girl and didn't want her to be alone, and he didn't want to be without her. SO he ate the fruit too to stand beside his Wife.

 

[hawkman]

Sure it does. They should have trusted their Creator. Let's start here with what He said.

Genesis 2:17
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.../

Adam & Eve are in the Garden and God is telling them, this is your Garden but that one tree, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, do not partake of that tree because it will do you no good, trust me I am the Lord.

So it's reasonable to say that before Adam & Eve ate from that tree, they did not have any knowledge of good and evil. No one had ever lied to them before. What is a lie?
A lie is saying something which is not truth.
Whats truth? What's bad? What does consequences mean? What does it mean good?

They did not know. After they ate from the wrong tree, suddenly Adam & Eve were very street smart and it was if their eyes were open. Eve understood the definition of the word scheme. But the only problem was, God didn't want to hang out with them any more and made sure they couldn't still get to the tree of life and booted them out.
Consequences.

Adam & Eve understood very well (after they ate the fruit) the danger of it. Yes I thik they were somewhat clueless to the danger before they ate the fruit, other than God had said, don't eat it or you wll die. So with a somewhat clueless woman (and man) it was easy to trick them with it's a fruit which will make one wise.

I always try to sleep on it before I make decisions, lol.

How much knowledge did Adam and Eve possess before eating the forbidden fruit ?

Did they know what a lie is ?

Did they know what death is ?

Anyone is welcome to answer , jaybo , D-D-W , 2nd Timothy Group

 

[jaybo]

How much knowledge did Adam and Eve possess before eating the forbidden fruit ?

Did they know what a lie is ?

Did they know what death is ?

Anyone is welcome to answer , jaybo , D-D-W , 2nd Timothy Group

I don't think that they understood what a lie or death are. They were instructed by God to do this but don't do this. The the serpent (whatever type of creature it actually was is open to debate) put the idea into Eve's mind that it was okay to question God's motive and she and Adam gave into temptation. In other words, they lacked faith. For some reason they didn't trust God.

 

[Edward]

How much knowledge did Adam and Eve possess before eating the forbidden fruit ?

Did they know what a lie is ?

Did they know what death is ?

Anyone is welcome to answer , jaybo , D-D-W , 2nd Timothy Group

The only knowledge they had was of good. They had no knowledge of evil. They knew they were not supposed to eat from that one tree. A lie is evil and it is sin. Death is the result of sin and evil. So they had no knowledge of that.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Does this take place as part of our sanctification process?

100%. In fact, I was Purified that day. I was stripped of the Sinful Nature, and Christ set me free of not only my Sin Nature, but I knew that I was completely forgiven of my past sins.

Yes, I continued to sin in my new life, but I slowly began to transform, which meant eliminating sources of sin as the days, months, and years have gone by. But yes, that Holy Day of being engulfed into the Spirit . . . that was the first day of my Holy Sanctification process.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

How much knowledge did Adam and Eve possess before eating the forbidden fruit ?

Did they know what a lie is ?

Did they know what death is ?

Anyone is welcome to answer , jaybo , D-D-W , 2nd Timothy Group

Of course, it is difficult to say what knowledge they had of sin, but now that I think of it, they were told about death for sure.

Genesis 2:17 KJV - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

 

[hawkman]

Of course, it is difficult to say what knowledge they had of sin, but now that I think of it, they were told about death for sure.

Genesis 2:17 KJV - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

So since they were told they would die if they disobeyed God don't you think God would have explained to Adam and Eve what death was ? Today is the first day I even considered this .

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

So since they were told they would die if they disobeyed God don't you think God would have explained to Adam and Eve what death was ?

I think that you're right. However, there is always that possibility that they didn't understand, that the Lord prevented them from understanding. We certainly see this happen to many, many people throughout the Bible. Below is a classic example:

Luke 9:43-45 NLT - "Awe gripped the people as they saw this majestic display of God's power. While everyone was marveling at everything he was doing, Jesus said to his disciples, "Listen to me and remember what I say. The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of his enemies." But they didn't know what he meant. Its significance was hidden from them, so they couldn't understand it, and they were afraid to ask him about it."

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

NO, the scripture says clearly "upon," not "within." That is a distinction that has carried from the books of Moses thru the NT.
"Within" is for character and strength. "Upon" is for acts of supernatural power; signs and wonders.

It is a RCC doctrine that I reject that says Mary had to be "immaculate" in order to carry our Lord as a baby.

This is one of the reasons for why I believe that the saints from the Old Testament WERE Indwelt by the Spirit of God. Note that I'm quoting the KJV and not the NLT.

Daniel 4:8 KJV - "But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying . . ."

Daniel 5:11 KJV - "There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers . . ."

 

[Benadam]

Sometimes I wonder is that some say "nature to sin" as all are born with that protentional to sin is very different from some saying we are born with a "sin nature".

I see a difference between being born with nature to sin that is different then being born with a sin nature as all of us are made in the image of God being wonderfully made when He knitted us together in our mother's womb.

Perhaps a wounded nature is better. Human nature is not as it was before sin. Jesus said sinners need a doctor.

 

[gordon777]

Why not just see the verses as it is described ?

Fact 1. God forbids Adam and Eve to not eat of the tree of knowledge ( good and evil)

2. Adam and Eve demonstrate they understand what this warning from God means ( to surely die) proven by what the serpent says, as the serpent reasons to Eve that she will not die ( so Eve had to have understood what dying, and not dying meant, or he would be answering/beguiling for nothing.)

3. Eve also understands the the tree she was forbidden from taking from, makes one wise, so she has understanding what wisdom is, and that is what is shown as the reason she disobeyed God ( to gain more knowledge of good and evil) as the knowledge that Adam and Eve had so far was what they were taught by God in good knledge/instruction ( and disputed by the serpent which also gave knowledge of evil)




Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


Look at Ezekiel 3, and that same situation continues. Even though Adam and Eve took off the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, all it was was further knowledge than thy already had ( as it is both instruction of Gods ways of wisdom on earth, and the serpents opposition, and why he is the antichrist)

Gods instruction then is to warn the wicked( as Adam and Eve were warned by God) to not do wickedness ( to disobey God) and when the same wicked man disobeys Gods words,, as Adam and Eve did ( being also wicked then was proven of Adam and Eve of course) they die in their iniquity as Adam and Eve did ( for transgression.)




Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

 

[jaybo]

So since they were told they would die if they disobeyed God don't you think God would have explained to Adam and Eve what death was ? Today is the first day I even considered this .

I think that Adam and Eve were symbolic, as is much of Genesis. In other words, I think that Adam and Eve are representative of humanity. We must all make the choice to heed what God says and because all sin, we have all disobeyed God. We have desired to be the judges of what is good and what is evil and it has caused our separation from God. When we realize our predicament we turn to God, repent, ask for forgiveness, and are granted eternal life.

 

[Robert Pate]

I ran into difficulty on another Christian forum because of my belief in Jesus' humanity. I believe that because Jesus was fully human (Hebrews 2:17 and elsewhere) He had to have been born that way, lived His life as a true human being, experiencing all that we experience, received the Holy Spirit after being baptized, took our sins on His sinless body, and was sacrificed for our sins (not His).

I was told that this was contrary to Trinitarian doctrine and was therefore false. What are your thoughts on this subject?

Jesus was all human and all God in one person. If he was not all human, then he would not be able to save us. Only God can atone for the sins of the whole world.

 

[gordon777]

Adam and Eve are our first father and mother, that connects us all to them, and then we see, just as vain choosing as Adam and Eve were, so everybody who does not have God as their Father ( through faith in Jesus Christ) still speaks and does only vanity.


Christ created all things, and that is not human. Christ was made a new thing in the earth, when a woman had a man. ( Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ on earth.

When any person can show they can create the same as Christ created the world, then they have an understanding in comparison to Jesus being human, if not, they are the humans and thunk that God should be like them.




Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Jeremiah 31:22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the Lord hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:




So again, we can only know Christ in the Spirit, there is nothing to know in the flesh ( as all men are in, talking without the Spirit)



2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.