What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

    Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

    Read The Gospel Online.

  • Site Restructuring

    The site is currently undergoing some restructuring, which will take some time. Sorry for the inconvenience if things are a little hard to find right now.

    Please let us know if you find any new problems with the way things work and we will get them fixed. You can always report any problems or difficulty finding something in the Talk With The Staff / Report a site issue forum.

Jesus' humanity

Donations

Total amount
$1,642.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Donate View
2nd Timothy Group said:
Whoa now . . .

Adam and Eve were not created with the natural tendency to sin. When God said that all that He had created was "good," He might as well have said "perfect."

Adam and Eve were born with one Nature . . . the Human Nature. The purpose of this Nature is to serve, and this Nature will serve whichever Spiritual Father it belongs to, be it either the Devil or God, the Father. Humans serve, and that's it.

When Adam and Eve sinned, their disobedience caused their eyes to be "opened" to sin, but closed to God. Thus, the Purpose of Christ is to redeem us from the Curse/s that came from Adam and Eve's unholy work. Jesus accomplishes His Purpose through His Holy Work, which is to Circumcise hearts of this Sinful Nature, He also grants the ability to Repent, He also grants the Holy Spirit, and belief in His death and resurrection along with believing in the Power that raised Him from the dead . . . these are His Holy Works. These completed Works of Christ result in the Effect of Christ, which is a Transformed human being. Any person who once possessed Satan as their Spiritual Father, and is then adopted by Christ as their Spiritual Father, there is a colossal Transformation and it is unavoidable.
Click to expand...
Both Adam and Eve sinned. Eve listened to the serpent and ignored what God had said to Adam. Adam despite knowing what God had said, listened to Eve. So they both sinned. It seems that they did indeed have a natural tendency to sin, since they both sinned by disobeying God's command.

When Adam and Eve sinned, their eyes were "opened to sin" by eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They had the choice not to do so. Why did they sin and disobey God? Because it was in their sin nature.

Genesis 3:6-7, "So when the woman saw that a) the tree was good for food and b) that it was a delight to the eyes and that c) the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and c) he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together and made loincloths for themselves." (my additional notations, of course).

She saw that the tree was good -- a serious misjudgment. She saw that it was a delight to her eyes -- another serious misjudgment. She thought that the tree would make her wise -- another serious misjudgment, the opposite of faith. And Adam , who heard directly from God, ate some of the fruit anyway. He disobeyed God's command. So they both sinned. Why? Because it was in their nature to sin. Why else would they have sinned???

I agree totally with your last paragraph.
 
jaybo said:
Where did God refer to them as "good"?
Click to expand...
Genesis 1:27-31 NKJV - "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." 29 And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 "Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

They were created in the Image of God. Since when does the Image of God contain an evil Sinful Nature?

Next, God Blessed them.

There is no Curse as of yet, proven by how God was providing for them. If they possessed any evil way, they would not be given total provisions.
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
Genesis 1:27-31 NKJV - "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." 29 And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 "Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

They were created in the Image of God. Since when does the Image of God contain an evil Sinful Nature?

Next, God Blessed them.

There is no Curse as of yet, proven by how God was providing for them. If they possessed any evil way, they would not be given total provisions.
Click to expand...
Genesis 1:31, " God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."

Do you not understand "everything"? The things God created -- every herb that yields seed, every tree whose fruit yields seed, every beast of the earth, every bird of the air, everything that creeps on the earth (including serpents), everything in which there is life -- are "good". This clearly means that God was pleased with His creation. It does not refer to Adam's and Eve's human nature. If it did, why did they disobey God? Clearly they were not "good" in the moral sense, otherwise animals, birds, trees, etc. are morally good (which is nonsense).

If, as you claim, Adam and Eve were good, why did they sin and disobey God? If a child disobeys their parents, are they good?
 
jaybo said:
Genesis 1:31, " God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."

Do you not understand "everything"? The things God created -- every herb that yields seed, every tree whose fruit yields seed, every beast of the earth, every bird of the air, everything that creeps on the earth (including serpents), everything in which there is life -- are "good". This clearly means that God was pleased with His creation. It does not refer to Adam's and Eve's human nature. If it did, why did they disobey God? Clearly they were not "good" in the moral sense, otherwise animals, birds, trees, etc. are morally good (which is nonsense).

If, as you claim, Adam and Eve were good, why did they sin and disobey God? If a child disobeys their parents, are they good?
Click to expand...

Uhhh . . . this is a little too intense for me to address, as I don't think this needs to be quite so dissected. There really isn't anything that I can add to make these Scriptures more clear. In my opinion, they speak for themselves. :)

I hope you have a great day!
 
jaybo said:
Where did God refer to them as "good"?
Click to expand...

It's in Genesis 1:31 and after man was creayed too.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.../
 
jaybo said:
Genesis 1:31, " God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."

Do you not understand "everything"? The things God created -- every herb that yields seed, every tree whose fruit yields seed, every beast of the earth, every bird of the air, everything that creeps on the earth (including serpents), everything in which there is life -- are "good". This clearly means that God was pleased with His creation. It does not refer to Adam's and Eve's human nature. If it did, why did they disobey God? Clearly they were not "good" in the moral sense, otherwise animals, birds, trees, etc. are morally good (which is nonsense).

If, as you claim, Adam and Eve were good, why did they sin and disobey God? If a child disobeys their parents, are they good?
Click to expand...
jaybo, Do you suggest God has a "sin nature" ? You said Adam and Eve were created with a "sin nature" , when they were actually created "in the image of God " . God has no "sin nature" .

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This "sin nature" you believe in seems to be a curse upon mankind, but read here in this verse something very different to a curse, a blessing matter of fact .

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

jaybo said:
If, as you claim, Adam and Eve were good, why did they sin and disobey God?
Click to expand...
Do not discount the part that the serpent played in the fall of mankind . Satan is here with us now and looking for anyway he can find to destroy us !
The serpent was (and is) the ultimate salesman with a sales pitch he had honed to the most shining . The serpent knew the stakes were high and he held nothing back in his devious presentation to Eve .

One very important word in this next verse desired . The things the serpent said gave Eve a desire for the forbidden fruit and it was up to Eve to refuse or act on the desire .

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
Genesis 1:27-31 NKJV - "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." 29 And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 "Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

They were created in the Image of God. Since when does the Image of God contain an evil Sinful Nature?

Next, God Blessed them.

There is no Curse as of yet, proven by how God was providing for them. If they possessed any evil way, they would not be given total provisions.
Click to expand...
Good may not be a reference to morality.
.
 
Cooper said:
Good may not be a reference to morality.
.
Click to expand...

It is likely to be all-inclusive. If a thing is immoral, the Curse would have already been applied because of its immorality.

Before Adam and Eve "fell," Lion laid down with the lamb. Animals were not consuming one another, etc. But after the "fall," Lions began eating lambs. Because of these things, Laws would need to be disseminated to the people, for it is the Law that pronounces the Curse of the Lord. It is the Law that outlines the Curse and what it causes humans to do. If there were no Curse, there would be no need for Law. Therefore, prior to the Law, there was no immorality, for the Law was not yet needed.
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
It is likely to be all-inclusive. If a thing is immoral, the Curse would have already been applied because of its immorality.

Before Adam and Eve "fell," Lion laid down with the lamb. Animals were not consuming one another, etc. But after the "fall," Lions began eating lambs. Because of these things, Laws would need to be disseminated to the people, for it is the Law that pronounces the Curse of the Lord. It is the Law that outlines the Curse and what it causes humans to do. If there were no Curse, there would be no need for Law. Therefore, prior to the Law, there was no immorality, for the Law was not yet needed.
Click to expand...
There has always been a food chain, and that is good and met with the creator's approval. Otherwise, the animal kingdom would not survive, so no food chain and mankind, being at the top of the food chain, would not exist. It was all good.

What God did was good and remains good. What Adam and Eve did, and Lucifer before them, Lucifer being the snake in the Old Testament parable, was straight forward disobedience, causing a gulf between man and God, which can only be crossed by turning to the Saviour.
.
 
Last edited:
2nd Timothy Group said:
Exactly, and this is why a person is considered "complete" in Christ.

Colossians 2:9-10 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority."
Click to expand...
You missed a bit below your quote. Complete in Christ if we receive the same circumcision of Christ. ( putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, and Christ being circumcision of the Spirit as born at birth, had no body of the sins of the flesh to put off.)

Then Christ can dwell in our hearts by faith ( by the faith of Christ who created all things through faith.) and we are then rooted in love, to understand and to know the love of Christ, ( passing all knowledge of men of this world) to be filled with all the fulness of God is to know that Christ is love.




Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
 
All was created to be good, and very good.

That included the serpent.

Did the serpent have a sin nature, yes he did.

Were Adam and Eve of the devil, yes, because the devil was a murderer from the beginning, and speaks lies, and his children hear him and do the lusts of their father ( Adam and Eve lusted after the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.)




Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.




God still had HIs children who heard Him. Not Cain ( who was of the wicked one.) , but Abel:




1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.



The blood of Abel spoke from the ground, and the blood of sprinkling ( of Christ) speaks better things than Abel, FROM HEAVEN, and you are supposed to hear the voice speaking from HEAVEN, not discussing earthly things as you seem to only be able to do with each other. ( but are corrected.)




Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Donations

Total amount
$1,642.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Donate View
Back
Top