Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[FreeGrace]

Is eternal life ongoing life?

No, it's not. "ongoing life" describes physical life. It's ongoing until it dies. Since eternal life cannot die, it is more than simply ongoing.

Eternal life is God's life.

If it is ongoing life, then how can we only receive it one time?

How many times does one receive human life? Please answer.

If it is ongoing life, by the very definition we must conclude that we must continue to receive it in order for it to be eternal.

That makes no sense, any more than the idea that physical life must continually be received.

Your idea of eternal life reminds me of water dripping from a hose.

 

[FreeGrace]

At the end of a life of faith, that bears fruit unto holiness.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23

Please cease from trying to pit Scripture against itself. Jesus was clear as to WHEN someone receives eternal life; when they believe. John 5:24. Not at the end of one's life.

26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:26-29

The question of WHEN one receives eternal life is answered in v.24. It's WHEN one believes.

Pease point out the condition(s) Jesus said for recipients of eternal life in order to never perish in John 10:28.

The point is that there are no conditions that recipients of eternal life must meet in order to never perish.

The simple FACT is that just being a recipient of eternal life means that one will never perish.

That is also called eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace]

I wrote no interpretation.

Please point out my interpretation.

There is only scripture.

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

I asked for clarification:
"I need some clarification before I can respond to this regarding Rom 2:6-8.

Can human beings earn eternal life by "continually doing good"? yes or no

I'll be able to point out whether your "interpretation" is correct or not.

Thanks."

Apparently I'm not going to get any clarification. So I cannot point out anything.

Which words of these passages do you find to be false?

Why not actually read my posts. I've already answered that.

It appears there is no real attempt to have a real conversation here.

 

[Nathan]

No, it's not. "ongoing life" describes physical life. It's ongoing until it dies. Since eternal life cannot die, it is more than simply ongoing.

Eternal life is God's life.


How many times does one receive human life? Please answer.


That makes no sense, any more than the idea that physical life must continually be received.

Your idea of eternal life reminds me of water dripping from a hose.

If you think life just exists, then perform a simple test for yourself.

Stop eating and drinking. Let me know how long you continue to live - even after you were born into this life just the one time - you still have to continue in it.

Ongoing does not mean there is an end. It simply means it's on going. Eternal life is ongoing.

 

[FreeGrace]

Where is my "misinterpretation in these following passages? It's only scripture, and nothing more.

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

Once more, I asked for clarification:
"I need some clarification before I can respond to this regarding Rom 2:6-8.

Can human beings earn eternal life by "continually doing good"? yes or no

I'll be able to point out whether your "interpretation" is correct or not.

Thanks."

So, again, there appears to be no serious attempt to have a real conversation.

Which words of these passages do you find to be false?

i've already answered. Please read my posts to find my answer.

 

[FreeGrace]

They have to be His sheep, follow Him, and hear Him. That's the condition.

His promise was ALREADY to His sheep. In v.28 there are NO CONDITIONS for His sheep, who are recipients of eternal life to meet.

The simple promise is that recipients of eternal life will never perish.

Or is there another understanding of His promise?

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

As I said, where are the conditions in v.28? I see NONE.

The issue here isn't how to be one of "them", but "them" must do to never perish?

The answer is: nothing. There is NOTHING a recipient of eternal life must do in order to never perish.

The plain FACT is that by receiving the gift of eternal life means that they will never perish. If this isn't true, then show where in Jesus' promise that any one of "them" must meet conditions in order to never perish.

The whole problem with the loss of salvation view is the assumption that there are conditions that people MUST MEET in order to get to heaven, which means 'to never perish'.

Jesus gave no conditions, in spite of the strenuous attempts to claim there are conditions.

In fact, the ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to receive eternal life. That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Jesus' promise was to recipients of ternal life.

One becomes a recipient of eternal life WHEN one receives eternal life.

This cannot be refuted. If it could be, then it would refute what Jesus promised. Good luck with that!

 

[FreeGrace]

If you think life just exists, then perform a simple test for yourself.

I never said that. Please don't put phony words in my mouth.

When I said physical life is ongoing, I guess I made an assumption that would obviously include eating and drinking.

Stop eating and drinking. Let me know how long you continue to live - even after you were born into this life just the one time - you still have to continue in it.

OK, I think I got it. This is equating physical life with spiritual life, which is eternal life.

So, how does God continuously have eternal life? What does He spiritually eat and drink?

Ongoing does not mean there is an end. It simply means it's on going. Eternal life is ongoing.

I think your ideas are rather confused.

But I am interested in your answer to how God sustains His own eternal life, since it's clear to me that you've equated physical life, which requires sustenance, with God's eternal life.

 

[JLB]

i've already answered. Please read my posts to find my answer.

I read your post.

Your answer was false.

You falsely accused me of "misinterpreting" the scripture.

I gave no interpretation.

I simply posted scripture with no interpretation.

I have asked you... Which words of these passages do you find to be false?

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

JLB

 

[JLB]

Please cease from trying to pit Scripture against itself. Jesus was clear as to WHEN someone receives eternal life; when they believe. John 5:24. Not at the end of one's life.

I just post what the scriptures say, and without any interpretation, they alone refute your unbiblical theory, that takes a part of a verse, while ignoring the conditions given and the rest of the context.

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-28

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

JLB

 

[JLB]

Can human beings earn eternal life by "continually doing good"? yes or no

A person must have the gift of the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, leading them to live according the desires of the Spirit, which are good, not evil.

Those who by patient continence in doing good will receive eternal life.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

Do you believe a born again Christian, who has been given the Holy Spirit, but chooses to live according to the sinful desires of the flesh, in which they do evil, will inherit eternal life?

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”John 3:36 NASB



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I read your post.

Your answer was false.

Really? Proof?

You falsely accused me of "misinterpreting" the scripture.

I gave no interpretation.

Well then. Give an interpretation, so I can evaluate it.

I simply posted scripture with no interpretation.

What's the point in that?

I have asked you... Which words of these passages do you find to be false?

And I answered every time. I think it's time to read my posts before repeatedly asking the same question.

 

[FreeGrace]

I just post what the scriptures say, and without any interpretation, they alone refute your unbiblical theory, that takes a part of a verse, while ignoring the conditions given and the rest of the context.

Nope. I have also posted Scriptures that clearly promise eternal security for recipients of eternal life, simply on the basis of receiving eternal life. Which no one has refuted.

The ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to to be given eternal life. Agree or disagree?

 

[FreeGrace]

A person must have the gift of the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, leading them to live according the desires of the Spirit, which are good, not evil.

I agree.

Those who by patient continence in doing good will receive eternal life.
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

There's nothing about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in Rom 2:6-8. It's simply about "continually doing good" and earning eternal life.

Which no one can do. If anyone could do this, they wouldn't need the sacrifice for their sins, because they wouldn't have any sins.

Do you believe a born again Christian, who has been given the Holy Spirit, but chooses to live according to the sinful desires of the flesh, in which they do evil, will inherit eternal life?

By "eternal life" I understand that to be a reference to the experience of eternity AFTER life on earth. And "inheritance" refers to rewards earned by obedience and faithfulness.

So, no, a born again Christian will NOT inherit eternal life, if they live according to their sinful desires. Of course not.

But remember what Jesus promises to "them", being recipients of eternal life; they will never perish. John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Do you agree with the promise Jesus makes with recipients of eternal life?

Jesus also taught WHEN one receives eternal life; which is when they believe. John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Do you agree that one has eternal life when one believes?

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”John 3:36 NASB

Absolutely true. But this has nothing to do with the discussion about somehow losing salvation, which cannot be found in the plain words of Scripture.

Only through a lot of assumption.

 

[Nathan]

I never said that. Please don't put phony words in my mouth.

When I said physical life is ongoing, I guess I made an assumption that would obviously include eating and drinking.


OK, I think I got it. This is equating physical life with spiritual life, which is eternal life.

So, how does God continuously have eternal life? What does He spiritually eat and drink?


I think your ideas are rather confused.

But I am interested in your answer to how God sustains His own eternal life, since it's clear to me that you've equated physical life, which requires sustenance, with God's eternal life.

You may be on the verge of understanding. You at least see the distinction between mortal man and the immortal God.

God doesn't have to have continuous eternal life, He is the source of it. He is eternal, therefore the life He gives - continually - to mortal beings is eternal life.

Without the eternal God giving His eternal life, you will perish.

God gave His Son so you could live eternaly through Him. In Him you have this life that is eternal, away from Him you do not have it. Eternal life is not a 'thing' that is passed from one hand to another - it's a LIFE that exists eternaly with the only eternal God.

God set a way for you to have this, but you can only have it according to His way. It's His life, He decides how you receive it. You cannot have it doing things your way.


Matthew 24:13 (ESV)
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Mark 13:13 (ESV)
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

John 6:27 (ESV)
Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal."

2 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)
if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

 

[JLB]

Nope. I have also posted Scriptures that clearly promise eternal security for recipients of eternal life, simply on the basis of receiving eternal life. Which no one has refuted.

The ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to to be given eternal life. Agree or disagree?

You have posted no scriptures.

 

[JLB]

Really? Proof?


Well then. Give an interpretation, so I can evaluate it.


What's the point in that?


And I answered every time. I think it's time to read my posts before repeatedly asking the same question.

Here's your proof that you have never addressed, only refuse to answer a simple question.

Which words of these passages do you find to be false?

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

JLB

 

[eddif]

Yes. You are "in the faith" if Jesus Christ (Messiah) GOD is in you. Period. Quite simple really.


I thought the enemy primarily uses lies, falsehood and deceit. Yet:

2 Corinthians 13:8 For we are not able to do anything against the truth, but rather only for the truth. ​

Where do you find Biblical support that the enemy uses the doubts of qualified people to "lead people away"?

Jesus (thru Holy Spirit inspired Matthew) provided the example of Peter's "doubt" for a reason:

Matthew 14:30-31 But when he saw the strong wind, he was afraid. And beginning to sink, he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!” And immediately Jesus extended his hand and caught him and said to him, “You of little faith! Why did you doubt?”​

Peter's fear led to his doubt and he began to sink. He had faith (was "in the faith"/in the boat, so-to-speak) but it was just a "little faith" at the time, evidently.

When Peter (an 'in the faith' person) feared death and began to doubt, how long did it take Jesus (who is powerful God) to extend His hand and catch him???

There's a reason God is strong when we are weak. And a reason He's there with us.

2 Corinthians 13:4 For indeed, he was crucified because of weakness, but he lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we will live together with him because of the power of God toward you.​

Are there qualified, in-the-faith people (that is having Jesus Christ in them, whether they recognize it or not, weak faith or strong faith) that will NOT live together with Him, in your opinion?

I wonder if this helps?
FreeGrace might be using this verse concept:

Matthew 14:22 KJV
And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away.

In faith they were already on the other shore if they believed his instructions.
Nothing should stop their arriving on the other shore (they had their instructions).

A storm should not influence their resolve to arrive at the other shore.
.......
In our life storms (sometimes mental) hit us.
We have Jesus interceding for us
We have the Holy Spirit
We have the quickening spirit
We have church discipline
We have spiritual gifts
We have promises
We have other benefits

Problems may come. Will we cease to be in faith about making it into the security of eternity?

Some posters are just being honest about the trials between:
Go to other side (heaven)
And
Resist the storms (firm in faith), and use existing benefits to see the instructions followed.

eddif

 

[Nathan]

I wonder if this helps?
FreeGrace might be using this verse concept:

Matthew 14:22 KJV
And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away.

In faith they were already on the other shore if they believed his instructions.
Nothing should stop their arriving on the other shore (they had their instructions).

A storm should not influence their resolve to arrive at the other shore.
.......
In our life storms (sometimes mental) hit us.
We have Jesus interceding for us
We have the Holy Spirit
We have the quickening spirit
We have church discipline
We have spiritual gifts
We have promises
We have other benefits

Problems may come. Will we cease to be in faith about making it into the security of eternity?

Some posters are just being honest about the trials between:
Go to other side (heaven)
And
Resist the storms (firm in faith), and use existing benefits to see the instructions followed.

eddif

I appreciate the analogy.

All to often, probably for good reason, people think that because a person knows endurance is instructed by God, that somehow those same people don't believe in the other instructions given by the Lord who saves us.

By faith we are there. By faith I am shaking your hand there eddif.

Faith isn't faith if someone is forced to believe. Love isn't love if someone is forced to love.

The only reason to teach the hard to hear words is because love does not show partiality.

If the disciples had chosen to stay on shore, they would have never seen what was waiting for them on the other side.

 

[FreeGrace]

You may be on the verge of understanding.

You're just too generous.

You at least see the distinction between mortal man and the immortal God.

Why is Jesus' promise to recipients not being seen?

God doesn't have to have continuous eternal life, He is the source of it. He is eternal, therefore the life He gives - continually - to mortal beings is eternal life.

What I've asked for is evidence from Scripture that God gives eternal life "continuously". I haven't seen any yet.

Without the eternal God giving His eternal life, you will perish.

The gift of eternal life is given WHEN one believes, according to Jesus in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

So, that's WHEN Jesus gives eternal life; when one believes. So eternal security is PROMISED at the moment one believes.

God gave His Son so you could live eternaly through Him. In Him you have this life that is eternal, away from Him you do not have it. Eternal life is not a 'thing' that is passed from one hand to another - it's a LIFE that exists eternaly with the only eternal God.

I've also asked for evidence from Scripture that refutes Eph 1:13,14 about the sealing with the Holy Spirit, which is a guarantee of our inheritance for the day of redemption.

Another clear statement of eternal security.

God set a way for you to have this, but you can only have it according to His way. It's His life, He decides how you receive it. You cannot have it doing things your way.

None of what I've posted is my way. It's ALL from Scripture.

1. God's will is that those who believe will HAVE eternal life. John 6:40
2. WHEN a person believes in Jesus Christ, they HAVE eternal life.
3. Jesus gives them (believers) eternal life (WHEN they believe) and they will NEVERE PERISH. John 10:28

This is biblical and therefore irrefutable.

Matthew 24:13 (ESV)
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Check the context. Which is about the Tribulation ONLY.

Mark 13:13 (ESV)
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Ditto.

John 6:27 (ESV)
Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal."

Check the next 2 verses. Eternal life is received by faith in Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)
if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Enduring is about reigning, not getting into heaven. Many believers will get into heaven but not everyone will reign with Him.

And, from the context, what is being denied is the privilege of reigning with Him.

Note that enduring and denying are opposites.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I have also posted Scriptures that clearly promise eternal security for recipients of eternal life, simply on the basis of receiving eternal life. Which no one has refuted.

The ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to to be given eternal life. Agree or disagree?"

You have posted no scriptures.

I was asking a question. Why would posting Scripture be required????

But OK, here is the verse that tells us WHEN one receives eternal life:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Here is the verse that promises eternal security to recipients of eternal life:
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

So, again, my question, based on these 2 verses:
The ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to to be given eternal life. Agree or disagree?