Bible Study Jesus

[th1b.taylor]

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Mat 5:17[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Mat 5:18[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]There is a gnostic view of the scriptures today that has entered into the Christian Churches that is, literally, sending people to Hell. The single verse above, 5:17, shows the truth of the matter but it is generally, just, not considered. About 144AD, mid Second Century, Marcion prompted the notion that the Old Testament and the New Testament were in disagreement, giving birth to the heretical Gnostic idea that the New Testament has, in some fashion, superseded the Old Testament.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]In John 1:1-3 we find that nothing exists in the world that Jesus did not create or cause to be. And when we read Malachi, in the third chapter and the sixth verse we find God explaining that He never changes! What Jesus did for us, before the cross, was to teach us, not the letter of the Law, rather, He taught all that will listen, the heart of the Law. In the Law it is said that, Thou shalt not murder, if you do you will go to Hell. But Jesus taught us that if we hate our brother, we are guilty of murder, already! [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Jesus taught Christianity from the Old Testament, the New was not even being written when He was teaching and if you never study the Old Testament, the light of what Jesus had recorded for us will never shine upon the New Testament as you read it. So, you need to ask yourself, “When I read the Old Testament, is it confusing?†If it is, and it was to me before the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you might want to consider doing a Spiritual Inventory. I'm not trying to scare you into believing you're not saved but to find out if you've been quenching the Spirit. And if you can't find Him there, then you might want to think about why.[/FONT]

 

[Autumn Leaf]

By the way, did you know that birth of Jesus Christ has been shown to be divine. Man can not create a story like the story about the birth of Jesus Christ. It contains so many wonderful numerical phenomena found by Ivan Panin that the story must be from divine authority. List of the phenomena can be seen on page kotisivu.

 

[felix]

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Mat 5:17[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Mat 5:18[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]There is a gnostic view of the scriptures today that has entered into the Christian Churches that is, literally, sending people to Hell. The single verse above, 5:17, shows the truth of the matter but it is generally, just, not considered. About 144AD, mid Second Century, Marcion prompted the notion that the Old Testament and the New Testament were in disagreement, giving birth to the heretical Gnostic idea that the New Testament has, in some fashion, superseded the Old Testament.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]In John 1:1-3 we find that nothing exists in the world that Jesus did not create or cause to be. And when we read Malachi, in the third chapter and the sixth verse we find God explaining that He never changes! What Jesus did for us, before the cross, was to teach us, not the letter of the Law, rather, He taught all that will listen, the heart of the Law. In the Law it is said that, Thou shalt not murder, if you do you will go to Hell. But Jesus taught us that if we hate our brother, we are guilty of murder, already! [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Jesus taught Christianity from the Old Testament, the New was not even being written when He was teaching and if you never study the Old Testament, the light of what Jesus had recorded for us will never shine upon the New Testament as you read it. So, you need to ask yourself, “When I read the Old Testament, is it confusing?” If it is, and it was to me before the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you might want to consider doing a Spiritual Inventory. I'm not trying to scare you into believing you're not saved but to find out if you've been quenching the Spirit. And if you can't find Him there, then you might want to think about why.[/FONT]

Matt 5:17-19 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches [them,] he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Which Commandments?
Matt 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds [the] [righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matt 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast [it] from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Matt 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
Matt 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
Matt 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Matt 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you

Can you please refer me where in the Moses law, "these commandments" mentioned above are found? Christ is not speaking about the law of Moses but God's Law which He speaks out according to the New Covenant spoken by prophets.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Matt 5:17-19 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches [them,] he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Which Commandments?
Matt 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds [the] [righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matt 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast [it] from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Matt 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
Matt 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
Matt 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Matt 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you

Can you please refer me where in the Moses law, "these commandments" mentioned above are found? Christ is not speaking about the law of Moses but God's Law which He speaks out according to the New Covenant spoken by prophets.

I really dislike contests and will refuse to keep this up if it continues because there are many structures for your request and on the surface I'm going to do the silly and assume you did not mean the seen aggression. If you'll spend the time to mine the first five books, the Law of Moses, you'll find it all there.

The Jewish Worshiper of old understood the Pentateuch to be the Mosaic Law while I've been informed by some of them today that the 613 commands of the Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers are the Mosaic Law, contained in the Pentateuch. But when one can wrap their head around the truth that the New Testament is the Inspired Life Application Commentary of the Bible Jesus, Paul, Peter and the others taught from, it becomes much easier to be led through the scriptures by the Holy Spirit.

Praying this helps and for God's blessing to pour over and to just swamp your study with blessing.

 

[felix]

I really dislike contests and will refuse to keep this up if it continues because there are many structures for your request and on the surface I'm going to do the silly and assume you did not mean the seen aggression. If you'll spend the time to mine the first five books, the Law of Moses, you'll find it all there.

Hmm... it's somewhere there in the law and yet you can't find it ? Why don't you simply admit the truth that it isn't there ? Of course you will not continue (nor will you like to continue) because how can you reply for an non existing answer.

If you truly seek the truth then, reply boldly let me know what in the law does the points of sermon on the mount occurs. Just don't reply totally unrelated and say it's somewhere there and you'll find it all there.

 

[wayseer]

Jesus taught Christianity from the Old Testament

How could Jesus teach 'Christianity'? Think about it. Christianity is about death and resurrection - so - until Jesus died there could be no christology.

Certainly Jesus was a Jew and taught from the Tanakh but he also changed that law. See Matthew Chapter 5 and the 'But I say to you' statements .....

You are correct with the number of obligations, 613, but as most of these have to do with the Temple and as there is no Temple then no one can perform those pertaining to the Temple.

Further, Jesus also said that anyone who fulfills the love commandment fulfills all the Law (Matt 22: 34-40).

Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Mat 5:17[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Mat 5:18[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]There is a gnostic view of the scriptures today that has entered into the Christian Churches that is, literally, sending people to Hell. The single verse above, 5:17, shows the truth of the matter but it is generally, just, not considered. About 144AD, mid Second Century, Marcion prompted the notion that the Old Testament and the New Testament were in disagreement, giving birth to the heretical Gnostic idea that the New Testament has, in some fashion, superseded the Old Testament.[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]In John 1:1-3 we find that nothing exists in the world that Jesus did not create or cause to be. And when we read Malachi, in the third chapter and the sixth verse we find God explaining that He never changes! What Jesus did for us, before the cross, was to teach us, not the letter of the Law, rather, He taught all that will listen, the heart of the Law. In the Law it is said that, Thou shalt not murder, if you do you will go to Hell. But Jesus taught us that if we hate our brother, we are guilty of murder, already! [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Jesus taught Christianity from the Old Testament, the New was not even being written when He was teaching and if you never study the Old Testament, the light of what Jesus had recorded for us will never shine upon the New Testament as you read it. So, you need to ask yourself, “When I read the Old Testament, is it confusing?” If it is, and it was to me before the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you might want to consider doing a Spiritual Inventory. I'm not trying to scare you into believing you're not saved but to find out if you've been quenching the Spirit. And if you can't find Him there, then you might want to think about why.[/FONT]

I agree with you on this. I teach Old Testament to men at my church. Not that I know it all, but they know practically nothing. I am surprised at how few people read the Old Testament. It seems that many people know Psalms and nothing else. Nobody I talk to knows who Gideon is. I've been studying the Old Testament for close to 28 years and I am continually learning. Gods' word in the Old Testament is full of surprises if one will just read it.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hmm... it's somewhere there in the law and yet you can't find it ? Why don't you simply admit the truth that it isn't there ? Of course you will not continue (nor will you like to continue) because how can you reply for an non existing answer.

If you truly seek the truth then, reply boldly let me know what in the law does the points of sermon on the mount occurs. Just don't reply totally unrelated and say it's somewhere there and you'll find it all there.

I gave you the answer but you are here to prove yourself... bye.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I think Jesus was teaching also from Himself, the Word which became flesh (John ch 1). God's Word was Jesus. When Jesus spoke more Bible was being created. He didn't need the OT to teach the Word as He WAS the Word, but to show the continuity (in the beginning was the Word) and integrate the history of God's chosen for whom Christ came in the first place, it is only natural that Christ would reference the OT. Jesus the Christ/Messiah told His listeners that if they wanted to be His followers (Christians) what they had to do (they had to deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Him) and how to do it was summed up at the Sermon on the Mound.

The Sermon on the Mount was and is a great lesson but far to many fall into heresy by making it exclusive as opposed to being inclusive and there is a reason for every book in the Bible.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I agree with you on this. I teach Old Testament to men at my church. Not that I know it all, but they know practically nothing. I am surprised at how few people read the Old Testament. It seems that many people know Psalms and nothing else. Nobody I talk to knows who Gideon is. I've been studying the Old Testament for close to 28 years and I am continually learning. Gods' word in the Old Testament is full of surprises if one will just read it.

This is good to hear and FYI, you have about 6 years on me. I'll be 68 next month and have been studying since I was 45. Also FYI... I'll see you when we go Home.

 

[felix]

I gave you the answer but you are here to prove yourself... bye.

Trying to run away does not mean what you say is correct. I just asked the reference in the law where the message found in the sermon on the mount occurs. Yet, no answer till now.
I checked all the above posts in this thread for any OT reference and found absolutely none.

 

[felix]

.. Every Word Christ spoke was God's Word ..

Amen :yes

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I think you may be missing the point that Mr. Taylor is making.
His point is to read the Old Testament and allow the Spirit of God to lead you into all understanding.
If you find that you are unable to do that, then you will never find the answers.
I find reading the Old Testament a pleasure, not a burden.

 

[felix]

I think you may be missing the point that Mr. Taylor is making.
His point is to read the Old Testament and allow the Spirit of God to lead you into all understanding.
If you find that you are unable to do that, then you will never find the answers.
I find reading the Old Testament a pleasure, not a burden.

I am specifically addressing Mat 5:17-18 in post #1 which has nothing to do with the law of Moses based on reply #3. If you have answer for my post at #3, I welcome your reply.

Also, who said reading OT is a burden?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Again, I think you are missing the point.


As for the OT being a burden to read, that was not directed at you.

It was a general statement that I have found to be true for many people.
I can see how you may have thought otherwise and I am sorry for not expressing myself better.

 

[th1b.taylor]

You folks will never talk any sense to Felix until he rids himself of the chip on his shoulder, called pride. I noticed right away that he was here to fight and when I gave him the opportunity to back away and to just discuss in love he refused. The most any of us can do is to pray for him until he chooses to submit to the leading of the Holy Spirit. None are wrong for trying but just as we learn from Proverbs, Wisdom is so valuable.

Felix has offered me the opportunity to upset myself, ignore God and to fall into the sin of vanity with him but I have gone there to often already and had to repent to often. If we pray for him and if he is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit will move on him.

 

[felix]

You folks will never talk any sense to Felix until he rids himself of the chip on his shoulder, called pride. I noticed right away that he was here to fight and when I gave him the opportunity to back away and to just discuss in love he refused. The most any of us can do is to pray for him until he chooses to submit to the leading of the Holy Spirit. None are wrong for trying but just as we learn from Proverbs, Wisdom is so valuable.

Felix has offered me the opportunity to upset myself, ignore God and to fall into the sin of vanity with him but I have gone there to often already and had to repent to often. If we pray for him and if he is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit will move on him.

So, if I ask for reference in OT, are you taught to blame others by using "pride" if you don't have an answer ?
Have you noticed that, even though I never targeted you, you repeated target me personally and without taking the discussion into consideration ?

 

[Mike]

Felix, this is the Bible Study Forum; not the A&T. You have appeared argumentative from your first post, and that is not what this particular forum is for. I suggest you leave it alone or start a discussion in an appropriate forum.

 

[nmwings]

Can you please refer me where in the Moses law, "these commandments" mentioned above are found?

Messiah is explaining how to be obedient not by rote or by ritual, but from our hearts.

Mark 12:29-30 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.'

Which is found in Deut 6:4-9 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

Lev 19:18 'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Christ is not speaking about the law of Moses but God's Law which He speaks out according to the New Covenant spoken by prophets.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 says it is the Law from Sinai that will be written on our hearts.

You should also read Acts 6:13-14 because it defines a false witness as anyone who speaks against the Temple, who speaks against the Law given at Sinai, or who claims Jesus changed that Law.

 

[Goinheix]

My opinion. We christians dont have to observ the Law. We christians are warned of observing the Law. We christians shall avoid any fashion of observance of the Law.