I go by the written Word of God, not the interpretation of imperfect human beings understanding of the written Word of God. God can inspire men to write down his thoughts accurately, so when it comes to the truth of who God is and the truth of how a human being can get salvation, if we had to believe in God being three persons in a godhead God would have inspired that to be written down accurately. No interpretation would be needed that God is three persons in a godhead. However there is nothing written down concerning that.
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Jesus
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Did you really mean to say that? You're implying that you're a perfect human being and therefore your interpretation is perfect. That is a very dangerous, prideful state to be in. Your interpretation is at least as imperfect and faulty as anyone else's.
That is begging the question. God did inspire them to write that there was, is, and ever will be only one God, that Jesus is both truly man and truly God, and that Jesus isn't the Father.
Again, all the foundations are there and your interpretation is lacking compared with a Trinitarian understanding. God uses progressive revelation throughout the Bible and this is no different.
I'm a Jehovah's Witness
I'm not implying anything, neither am I interpreting anything. Genesis says, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Nothing in this scripture teaches that God joined a immaterial living soul to the human body. It does teach that when God blew the breath of life into the human body that the human body became a living soul. So since Genesis 2:7 doesn't say God gave a living soul to the human body but instead says the human body became a living soul, I'm going to believe that the human body became a living soul not that it was given a living soul.
I'm not going to believe in God being three persons in a godhead when I see it's not written down in scripture anywhere. Those who believe in the Trinity, make it a point to say that if you don't believe in the Trinity, that God is three persons in a godhead, you can't be saved, even though that's not written down in scripture nowhere. Trinitarians add to scripture when they say you have to believe in the Trinity, that God is three persons in a godhead for a person to get salvation, because the scriptures don't say that.
Yes, you are,. It is absolutely impossible to read the Bible and not interpret it. That is not how reading works, whether the Bible or anything else. You do interpret it and you put your interpretation above all others. Everything you read in the Bible is filtered through all your life experiences, everything else you've read, and all your biases. More than that, "your interpretation" isn't really yours, it's the Watchtower's; although you might differ from them a bit, if you dare. So, you actually do go by "the interpretation of imperfect human beings." And, very imperfect ones at that, given the errors in the NWT that are meant to mislead, their many false prophecies, etc.
Okay.
Again, this is what is clearly given in Scripture:
1. There is only one God.
2. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
3. The Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit, and the Son isn't the Holy Spirit.
Those are the foundations of the Trinity precisely because they all appear in Scripture.
When I'm reading verse Genesis 2:7 which says, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul," all I'm doing is reading this scripture. However I agree that understanding what you read is part of reading. So when I read Genesis 2: 7 I must understand what Genesis 2:7 is saying, and I read nothing in this verse that says God joined an immaterial soul to the human body, and I understand that anyone who says that Genesis 2:7 is saying that God joined an immaterial soul to the human body, they are saying Genesis 2:7 should not have been translated with the word "Became." That would mean they believe all English versions of the Bible were wrong to translate Genesis 2:7 with the word "Became." But Genesis 2:7 is not translated inaccurately the accurate word for Genesis 2: 7 is "Became" not "Gave." So since the word "Gave" is nowhere in Genesis 2:7 I'm not going to understand this scriptures to be saying God "Gave" the human body an immaterial soul. When reading this scripture, it says nothing in any way or even by implication that God "Gave" an immaterial soul to the human body. Genesis 2:7 tells me that after God blew the breath of life into the human body that human body "Became" a living soul. These two words "Gave" and "Became," don't mean the same thing. So I understand that when a person says that Genesis 2: 7 is saying that God joined an immaterial soul to the human body, I can see for myself that they're throwing the word "Became" out of this scripture and replacing it with the word, "Gave." I'm not going to agree with throwing the word "Became" out of Genesis 2:7, and replacing it with the word "Gave."
I have no idea what this has to do with the discussion.
Thank you as that explains your understanding in what you have been taught.
They do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.
These type of teachings comes against that which has already been written as JW use The New World Translation Bible, which is a translation of the Bible published by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. It is used and distributed by Jehovah's Witnesses.
This thread is about Jesus, not the other thread about the soul.
I just left my last Christian Forum because they banned discussion of the Trinity. This was the 1st major test of orthodoxy in Christian history, as I understand it. To ban discussion of it is to dilute the Gospel and to give cover for JWs and others who are Arian or who deny the Deity of Christ.
Without the Deity of Christ we do not have a real mediator between God and Man. He forgives because he is God. He gives us the Holy Spirit because he is God. He grants us Eternal Life because he is God. Period.
I actually was brought up in the protestant church. I didn't become a Jehovah's Witness until my mid 30's. There were many things that the protestant church taught that I honestly didn't and don't believe to be in the scriptures. I know many people in the protestant church believe that if you don't believe what the protestant church teaches then you're not a Christian, but everyone is an imperfect human beings like myself and although they have their belief and teach it I don't think them to be perfect human beings who are infallible about what they believe to be true and what they believe is in agreement with the scriptures.
I was simply replying to free post at post #125
JW's don't won't the trinity doctrine banned on any christian forum. The problem is people start judging and arguing about trinity when they start discussing it. If a person says something about the Trinity and someone disagrees with that person and they start posting one another then if they see they're not going to agree on what they have posted about the Trinity then they should agree to disagree and move on.
In all reality the teachings about the Trinity started first with Jesus and has nothing to do with Protestants or any denomination/non-denominational churches.
You need to go read up on Charles Taze Russell who was one of the founders of the Watch Tower and JW's false doctrine taught from The New World Translation. I pray that the Holy Spirit would open your eyes and that you would come out of his deceptive
Charles Taze Russell | Founder of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Bible Student Movement
Charles Taze Russell was the founder of the International Bible Students Association, forerunner of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. By the time he was 20, Russell had left both Presbyterianism and Congregationalism because he could not reconcile the idea of an eternal hell with God’s mercy. He had drifted
www.britannica.com
I haven't found it written down in scripture that Jesus spoke about any explicit doctrine of any trinity or there being three persons in a godhead. I haven't found it written in scripture that he said he was God. It's people who are saying, Jesus is God or was God, and they try to teach it in such a way that the terms ‘Christ’ and ‘God’ are interchangeable. But nowhere in scripture is this true. The only thing I've found in scripture is that it says that Jesus was the Word of God, and that it says that God was in Christ, and it says that Jesus is the Son of God; but it does not say that Jesus was God.
Hello BB1956, Has anyone read it completely? https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....t-luke-2439-yet-god-is-spirit-john-424-can-we
Love, Walter And Debbie
That's because you use The New World Translation bible and is not found in there as the Watch Tower rewrote their version of the Bible that all us Christians use. Below is what JW are taught about grace and Jesus crucifixion which comes against the true word of God.
Salvation (Grace vs. Works)
Salvation requires that one accept Bible doctrines as interpreted by the Governing Body, be baptized as a Jehovah's Witness and follow the program of works as laid out by the Governing Body.
Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that they believe in the grace of God and that one does not earn salvation by their works. While they give lip service to God’s grace, their actions indicate differently. Consider the policy of making a disfellowshipped person earn their way back into the congregation. Remember you must be a Jehovah’s Witness "in good standing" to survive the end times, and to remain in good standing you must follow the rules and works set out by the Watchtower Organization. If someone breaks a rule, the elders decide whether that person is repentant or not, if they decide they are not repentant they are disfellowshipped. A disfellowshipped witness will not survive the time of the end. Think about it, they are deciding who deserves God’s grace and who does not.
Wherever you find the word grace in most Bibles you will find the term "undeserved kindness" in their Bible. While this may or may not be an acceptable translation of the original Greek word, it gives them a great deal of latitude in their teaching. In the December, 1993 issue of The Kingdom Ministry (a publication for members only) in an article titled "Sow Bountifully but With Discernment" the Watchtower Organization printed this thought "We want to give deserving ones the opportunity to learn of Jehovah’s undeserved kindness and the Kingdom hope". This brings to mind some serious questions: How can anyone deserve God's undeserved kindness if it's undeserved? And just what methods would mortal man use to discern who deserves God's undeserved kindness and who does not, are not God's thoughts higher than man's? This statement really shows the attitude of The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society—not all people deserve God’s grace and it is the job of Jehovah's Witnesses to discern who does and who does not. Jehovah's Witnesses constantly boast that they alone are "preaching the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth". Are they preaching in all the inhabited earth or just to the ones they deem deserving?
Jesus crucified on a stake not a cross
They reject the traditional symbol of Christianity, the cross, as being of pagan origin. They translate the Greek word from the Christian Scriptures "stauros" as "torture stake", and believe that Jesus was crucified on a single upright wooden stake with no crossbeam. They view the cross as an Idol and wearing or displaying one is considered idol worship.
I pray for you that your Spiritual eyes and ears will be opened to what has all ready been written by the Prophets and Apostles who were inspired of God to write and teach all of us.
When people state “God is spirit”, I agree that's correct. And I agree that God lives in the body of believers. But the temple such as Paul says here at 1 Corinthians 3: 16,17 that temple does not have the personal presence of God. It means merely that God’s spirit dwells in this symbolic temple. God dwells there merely by his spirit, because the members thereof are in the flesh on the earth.
So if someone says when reading 1 Corinthians 3: 16, 17 that God literally dwells in every literal human being who is a Christian, I disagree with that. I agree that God's Holy Spirit dwells in that global congregation that Jesus is head of.
I also looked in the KJV, which is the Bible I grew up with way before I knew of any NWT and I haven't found anywhere in that Version of the scriptures where's it written down in scripture that Jesus spoke about any explicit doctrine of any trinity or there being three persons in a godhead. I haven't found it written in scripture that he said he was God. Like I said It's people who are saying, Jesus is God or was God, and they try to teach it in such a way that the terms ‘Christ’ and ‘God’ are interchangeable. But like I said nowhere in scripture is this true. The only thing I've found in scripture is that it says that Jesus was the Word of God, and that it says that God was in Christ, and it says that Jesus is the Son of God; but it does not say that Jesus was God.