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Jesus

kjw47 said:
Gods will= his name in over 7000 places in his bible. Satan's will = remove Gods name in 7000 places in Gods bible to mislead all using those translations. One's religion shows 100% whose will they support on the matter of Gods name by the translation they use. Jesus showed all in the Lord's prayer, his Father's name is the #1 issue to all involved.
Catholicism translated certain errors in to fit false council teachings, they carried over into all translations that are altered. They removed Gods name as well even though Jerome told the Catholic leader back before he translated to the Latin vulgate that Gods name belonged in the NT as well as the OT.
I use a translation that put Gods name back out of support for Gods will on the matter. The false religions condemned them for putting Gods name back. Why? Because they can't even understand Jesus' words in the Lords prayer even though they say it a gazillion x.
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Okay, but I gave a few passages where it is stated that the Son created “all things,” by which is meant everything that was created. That precludes the Son from having been created. So, where is it stated that the Son created “all other things”? I cannot find such a statement anywhere.
 
Free said:
Okay, but I gave a few passages where it is stated that the Son created “all things,” by which is meant everything that was created. That precludes the Son from having been created. So, where is it stated that the Son created “all other things”? I cannot find such a statement anywhere.
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Jesus is the firstborn of all creation=created direct first and last. He is Gods master worker of Prov 8==verse 30 the one beside God during the creation process--He gives 100% credit to God at Prov 8 for creating.
Gen 1:27--HE( NOT WE) created. Same word used by Gods master worker-HE(God)

Let us make man in our image= God and his master worker.
 
kjw47 said:
Jesus is the firstborn of all creation=created direct first and last. He is Gods master worker of Prov 8==verse 30 the one beside God during the creation process--He gives 100% credit to God at Prov 8 for creating.
Gen 1:27--HE( NOT WE) created. Same word used by Gods master worker-HE(God)
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Okay, again, I provided a few passages which show that the Son created, or was the agent of creating, everything that was ever created. This means he cannot have been created. You say he created “all other things,” but that isn’t stated anywhere and contradicts the passages I gave.

kjw47 said:
Let us make man in our image= God and his master worker.
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Except that we’re made in God’s image alone, no one else’s:

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)
 
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The word "was" is the Greek, en, which is a form of eimi (I Am), and speaks of continuous action in the past; that is, absolute preexistence before any creation. What that statement means is that when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence, and hence, there was never a time when he did not exist. The very same applies to the Father, who has absolute preexistence.

In the second clause, "and the Word was with God," it is the Greek pros that is translated as "with." But it isn't merely speaking of being together or near. It is in the accusative and expresses “direction towards,” as in relationship and communion, implying intimacy. It is important to note here that in the Greek the article is present, so it reads, "the Word was with [the] God." So, God is a reference to someone other than the Word, at a minimum it is a reference to the Father.

When it comes to the last clause, "the Word was God," it is significant that "God" doesn't have the article in the Greek, as it was in the preceding clause. If the article had been present then "Word" and "God" become interchangeable, and they are one and the same, which is the error of Oneness theology. But this whole passage is about the logos, who the logos is, not who God is, so John purposely doesn't use the article to avoid equating the two words. What it can only mean then, is that the Word was divine in nature, or deity. However, since there is only one God, it is rightly translated as "the Word was God."

Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.

We see a repeat of verse 1 with the use of en, pros, and God with the article, reaffirming the timeless preexistence of the Word who was in active communion with the Father.

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

Simple, straightforward logic tells us that since "all things were made through" the Word, and that "without him was not any thing made that was made," it necessarily follows that the Word is not something that was made (see also 1 Cor 8:6 and Col 1:16-17). That is, there never was a time when the Word did not exist. If the Word was something created, then John and Paul are wrong; ignorant at best, purposely lying at worst.

John's whole point is who the Word is. The purpose of his prologue is to introduce us to the Word become flesh, God entering into time as a human, in the person of Jesus. The Word had eternal preexistence, the same as the Father, in intimate relationship with God, and was in nature deity himself. Yet, we know there has always been only one God. The best explanation is that there is plurality within the one God (as Gen 1:26-27 strongly implies), hence, the historical doctrine of the Trinity best takes this evidence into account.
 
Free said:
Okay, again, I provided a few passages which show that the Son created, or was the agent of creating, everything that was ever created. This means he cannot have been created. You say he created “all other things,” but that isn’t stated anywhere and contradicts the passages I gave.


Except that we’re made in God’s image alone, no one else’s:

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)
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Gods image= The ability to love and reason.
 
kjw47 said:
Gods image= The ability to love and reason.
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It's probably much more than that, but that doesn't address what Gen 1:26-27 state: 1) that we are created only in God's image and 2) God uses plural personal pronouns in discussing creating humans in his image, and then the narrative uses singular personal pronouns when mentioning the act of creating humans in God's image.

You still haven't addressed any of the other passages I have provided nor supported your claim that "all other things" were created through Jesus.
 
Josef said:
Hey All,
Please show us a reference for this.
This is what John 1:1-4 says:

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jesus is at the beginning.
He bagan the beginning.
Therefore Jesus had to exist before the beginning.

If Jesus was created, He would have been the beginning.
But Genesis 1:1 tells us God created the heavens and the earth.
John tells us Jesus made/created all things.
All is an absolute term.
Anything less than all, and it is not all.
If Jesus was created all would no longer be all.
So Jesus had to exist before creation, and He Himself cannot be created if John's statement is true. (Which we believe it is.)
Therefore, Jesus cannot be a created being.

Jesus is the eternal Son of God.
He is life and the light of men.
Amen.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
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Revelation 3:14 says, "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God."

Colossians 1:15 says, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."

Before Colossians 1:15, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living creatures the same meaning applies, the firstborn is part of the group. “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals.

Jesus said at John 17:3, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

At John 20:17 Jesus Christ said after his resurrection, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

These scriptures clearly show Jesus wasn't saying he was God. God is the only one who has no beginning, so Jesus had a beginning.
 
kjw47 said:
Jesus was by Gods side during the creation of everything else. All other things were created through the being God sent to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal. An angel was sent=Gods best was sent.
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I agree that the only begotten Son of God was in heaven with God during the creation of everything else, and that all other things were created by God, through the only begotten Son. I agree while the only begotten Son of God was in heaven before being sent to mankind as a human he was mortal, and that the only begotten Son of God was mortal while on earth as a human. However after the only begotten Son of God sacrificed his human body for mankind and God resurrected him God resurrected Jesus as a life giving spirit and Jesus was given immortality, and he inherited incorruption.
 
Free said:
It's probably much more than that, but that doesn't address what Gen 1:26-27 state: 1) that we are created only in God's image and 2) God uses plural personal pronouns in discussing creating humans in his image, and then the narrative uses singular personal pronouns when mentioning the act of creating humans in God's image.

You still haven't addressed any of the other passages I have provided nor supported your claim that "all other things" were created through Jesus.
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God is the only one with the power and wisdom to create. He used his master worker who was beside him during the creation process. His Master worker was created in his image as well, its why us was used.
 
BB1956 said:
I agree that the only begotten Son of God was in heaven with God during the creation of everything else, and that all other things were created by God, through the only begotten Son. I agree while the only begotten Son of God was in heaven before being sent to mankind as a human he was mortal, and that the only begotten Son of God was mortal while on earth as a human. However after the only begotten Son of God sacrificed his human body for mankind and God resurrected him God resurrected Jesus as a life giving spirit and Jesus was given immortality, and he inherited incorruption.
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No mortals live in heaven, nor ever have. It's the dwelling place of spirit beings.
 
BB1956 said:
I agree that the only begotten Son of God was in heaven with God during the creation of everything else, and that all other things were created by God, through the only begotten Son.
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Based on what, though?
 
kjw47 said:
God is the only one with the power and wisdom to create.
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I completely agree.

kjw47 said:
He used his master worker who was beside him during the creation process. His Master worker was created in his image as well, its why us was used.
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Where does God tell us that "His Master worker was created in his image"? And, why do you not address the passages I have provided?
 
Who Jesus is, "But who do you say that I am?", is the most important question to answer, and we must take everything the Bible says into consideration so as to have the fullest possible context, which will provide the least chance of error. No one can afford to get this wrong. We must put our faith and trust in the biblical Christ and none other.
 
Question said:
Jesus is the one GOD sent. Seems like those on this site don't know Him!
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That's a very bold and inaccurate claim that none of us know who Jesus is!!!

Can you give us your understanding of who Jesus is with scripture and your relationship with Him?
 
BB1956 said:
I have never read in scripture where Jesus said he was God. I do understand that there are imperfect human beings who interpret certain scriptures to make it seem the scriptures are saying Jesus is God in the flesh, but I don't follow imperfect human beings personal interpretations of scripture. That's because no one is going to convince me that God is so ignorant that it's impossible for him to inspire men to write down his thoughts accurately. So when a scripture says, "I and the Father are one" and imperfect humans interpret this scripture to mean that Jesus and God are the same person, I'm going to disagree. I can read no matter how many people say I can't read, and I can see for myself that people are taking this particular scripture out of context to prove there belief. I'm not going to agree when people taking scripture out of context to try to prove what they believe. Now I do understand that people have the right to believe their personal interpretations of scripture, or someone else's personal interpretations, they even have the right to take a scripture out of context but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

In scripture some Jews accused Jesus of making himself equal to God, Jesus replied: "Is it not written in your law, 'I said: "you are God's"'? If he called 'gods' those against whom the word God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, 'You blaspheme,' because I said, I am God's Son?"(John 10:34-36) Here in this scripture Jesus wasn't saying he was equal to God or that he was God, simply because he said he was God's Son.

The scriptures show us that as a son, Jesus ascribed superior authority, knowledge and greatness to his Father. He stated: "This sitting down at my right hand and at my left hand is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father"(Matthew 20:23) "concerning that day or that hour nobody knows, neither that angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father."(Mark 13:32) "The Father is greater than I am."(John 14:28) Jesus acknowledged his Father as his God. Just before his death Jesus cried out: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"(Matthew 27:46) Then after Jesus resurrection, he told Mary Magdalene: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God."(John 20:17)
Finally, in a revelation to the apostle John, Jesus Christ identified himself as the first of God's creations, saying: "These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God."(Revelation 3:14; John 1:14; Colossians 1:15.)

So the testimony of Jesus Christ respecting himself while on earth reveals that he was not just some wise man nor was he God in the flesh, but he was the perfect human Son of God. The record concerning Jesus words and deeds served to establish this truth. Wrote the apostle John: "Jesus performed many other signs also before the disciples, which are not written down in this scroll. But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name."(John 20:30,31)
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Hello BB1956, However, We do also see where His Son Jesus Christ says that GOD Is A Spirit, and He has a Father.

Love, Walter
 
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