Joel Olsteen

[Mike]

Geo, gosh it's great to have the truth affirmed in your post. When ministers leave out part or distort the Gospel in any regard, they should be dismissed by biblical Christians.

And I love your comment about repenting and repenting. Agreed completely!

I vowed to take a break from the boards on Easter, but I was moved by your truths and the Spirit in your post. I believe we as Christians should ignore Osteen and pray for those who follow his flawed ministry.

 

[faithtransforms]

You're welcome! Praying you get out of what you need to, and you're not alone for sure.
Sometimes it's when you'll be used greatly by God that the enemy works the hardest to stop.

The lukewarm he doesn't bother with, but with what is coming I sense the lukewarm are gonna get serious for God real quick like, real soon.

And if you need prayer, let moi know!

Thanks for sharing about Jesus visiting you, isn't it cool! But even if all eyes would see Jesus not all eyes will recognize Jesus when He resurrects after 2 ''days''. Hosea 6:2-3

Be bless.

Thank you Marc. Once again you bless me greatly

 

[faithtransforms]

I say that not only Joel O. but there are many preachers in America who preach not the truth anymore but a sugar and chocolate coated Scripture. This is a total distortion of the true message of Christ which is: repentance, righteousness, holiness, denial of the flesh, separation from the world and obedience to God's will. What did these churches do to the community and to the country? They produced Christians who's heart are hardened, blind, proud, arrogant, lovers of money, pleasure, haters of good, having a form of godliness but denying its power. Why? because these preachers preach forgiveness without repentance; preach love without judgement; preach heaven without hell. They turn the truth into lie and turn the lie into truth. Woe to those who call evil good and good evil. Their sins will follow them. Jude 1:11 (NIV) tells us, "Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion." Now a days, people have itching ears. They only want to hear the preacher they like. They are not after the truth anymore. Sounds like we are in the last days...Hmmm.

I would agree with you there. There are many false teachers who put an undue emphasis on prosperity. However, there are some prosperity teachers who also preach "repentance, righteousness, holiness, denial of the flesh, separation from the world and obedience to God's will." One of whom is Kenneth Copeland. Now I'm sure you think he's a heretic, but I would guess you've only seen him a handful of times and got turned off by something and judged him by that and have never investigated him further. But I am familiar with a large body of his work. And if there is anyone who preaches obedience, denial of the flesh, repentance and holiness it's Kenneth (and Gloria) Copeland.

 

[Mike]

I would agree with you there. There are many false teachers who put an undue emphasis on prosperity. However, there are some prosperity teachers who also preach "repentance, righteousness, holiness, denial of the flesh, separation from the world and obedience to God's will."

But Osteen doen't. So why do you support him? faithfransforms, don't let false preachers pull you from
the Truth of the Gospel. I realize you don't depend on Osteen's message, but you condone it. That's wrong enough on its own.

Just listen to main stream biblical theology: prosperity preaching is wrong!!! Don't allow yourself to be pulled in its direction!

 

[faithtransforms]

And it's only Babylon that would classify guys like Hinn or Copeland as christians. Even the less charming and nice Europeans can see these clearly as what they really are, and it's not a serious discernment challenge either, just watch youtube and their own "best moments" and interviews. Wolves with smart schemes to make 'maximum cash in minimum time' to fill up their jets. Copeland is the richest. But Hinn has one clever trick to make one million in 10 minutes, so he could catch up eventually if not the impending dollar crash comes first.

I challenge you to watch this video of Kenneth Copeland and tell me what you think:

http://www.bvov.tv/kcm/ondemand/2009bvc.php .

Watch the Friday, March 6, 2009 Evening Service with Kenneth Copeland. You may not agree with his theology, but you are blind as a bat if you cannot see the integrity of this man.

 

[faithtransforms]

I would agree with you there. There are many false teachers who put an undue emphasis on prosperity. However, there are some prosperity teachers who also preach "repentance, righteousness, holiness, denial of the flesh, separation from the world and obedience to God's will."

But Osteen doen't. So why do you support him? faithfransforms, don't let false preachers pull you from
the Truth of the Gospel. I realize you don't depend on Osteen's message, but you condone it. That's wrong enough on its own.

Just listen to main stream biblical theology: prosperity preaching is wrong!!! Don't allow yourself to be pulled in its direction!

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY I DO NOT SUPPORT JOEL OSTEEN????? All I said is I think the man means well, as misguided as he is.

I "condone" it because I think people are genuinely getting born again in his church. But the more I talk about it in this thread, the less I condone it though, because you're right, it's not the TRUE GOSPEL. I do believe in prosperity though, or once again, how are we going to feed the poor and clothe the naked, etc without MONEY? And there IS scriptural evidence to back it up. I am doing a study on it right now and will be starting a thread about it soon. We are blessed to be a blessing. I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but I don't think I've ever asked God for even ONE material thing. I seek His Face and His Kingdom. But in doing so, he has blessed me outrageously. I am not rich, in fact, I'm barely making it, but God has ALWAYS supplied my needs and sometimes my wants also. As I said, someone paid cash for a brand new car and gave it to me in 2006 when I was really on fire for God. That was the blessing and favor of God. I wasn't "believing" for a new car, God just blessed me with it.

 

[jasoncran]

that isn a prosperity gospel, but a poor choice of words for it, that is scriptural.
its called doing the lord work first and letting him meet those needs, notice needs not wants.

 

[DarcyLu]

I "condone" it because I think people are genuinely getting born again in his church. But the more I talk about it in this thread, the less I condone it though, because you're right, it's not the TRUE GOSPEL. I do believe in prosperity though, or once again, how are we going to feed the poor and clothe the naked, etc without MONEY? And there IS scriptural evidence to back it up. I am doing a study on it right now and will be starting a thread about it soon. We are blessed to be a blessing. I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but I don't think I've ever asked God for even ONE material thing. I seek His Face and His Kingdom. But in doing so, he has blessed me outrageously. I am not rich, in fact, I'm barely making it, but God has ALWAYS supplied my needs and sometimes my wants also. As I said, someone paid cash for a brand new car and gave it to me in 2006 when I was really on fire for God. That was the blessing and favor of God. I wasn't "believing" for a new car, God just blessed me with it.

yes, He does supply our needs, when we are seeking Him and in His Word, His promise is that He will meet our needs. so if there is a person who is in "poverty" level as the US would describe such an individual, don't you think God will meet that person's needs, also, if they are seeking Him. Of course He will as He has promised it!

we, as Christians, who are truly seeking God, only need God to supply our needs, we have to rely on Him alone, not on other Christians with money because there will be a time when other Christians won't have any money either.

The Israelites, in the wilderness, did not have any money, but their needs were met by God. it's just like doctors, there will be a time when we will not be able to rely on doctors as we are accustomed to, God will meet our needs! God wants us to rely on Him!

 

[Bishopj]

I have nothing against preaching or teaching about prosperity because all of us wants to prosper in every areas of our lives. The problem is that when preachers place so much emphasis on the subject. Why? because it is a way to bring in income to the church or ministry. For that purpose, the true essence of the Gospel has been lost which means that "there is a form of godliness in the message but it is powerless". The message is shallow. It's milk. It's for baby. If you attend that kind of church in your lifetime you will remain in elementary level drinking spiritual milk. You will never learn to grind solid food.

These preachers have a lot of followers. I guess, if they would just preach the truth they could turn this nation into a Holy Spirit filled, tongue talking, prophesying, devil chasing, sick healing, Gospel preaching nation. However, that is not the case because if we just open our eyes, this nation has been turned to Sodom and Gomorrah ripe for God's judgement. As a nation, we had been humiliated, insulted, ignored, blamed and mocked not for the reason that we are godly but because we turned away from God. Our schools rejected God. The government rejected God by calling it "Separation of church and State". The preachers preach "Peace, peace, peace where there is no peace". The prophets prophecy false hope-they don't point out the sins of God's people so that they could repent and God would heal them. They prophecy by Baal (the god of this world). Wicked and adulterous nation! When are you going to open your eyes!!!

 

[Mike]

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY I DO NOT SUPPORT JOEL OSTEEN????? All I said is I think the man means well, as misguided as he is.

It doesn't matter if he "means well" if his message is misguided. I'm certain the Dali Lama means well. I overstated myself when I said you hitched your wagon to him. I realize you are not following him around as a disciple would, but simply condoning him and defending him is worrisome enough to me.

But the more I talk about it in this thread, the less I condone it though, because you're right, it's not the TRUE GOSPEL.

:amen :amen :amen And I don't for a minute think that we are persuading you. Clearly, He is convicting you & that's awesome

I do believe in prosperity though, or once again, how are we going to feed the poor and clothe the naked, etc without MONEY? ... We are blessed to be a blessing.

When Jesus asked Peter 3 times "Do you love Me?" and told him 3 times, "Feed My sheep", did He literally mean to feed his followers with food? Or did he command him to feed his followers with the Gospel and the Truth? We ARE blessed to be a blessing. We were blessed with faith in the Gospel so we can bless others with that life-saving message.

You're a sister in Christ, so I don't consider this argumentative. Iron sharpens Iron, and we need each other. I've had times on these boards where I've needed to be nudged back on to the road.

 

[Mike]

Hey Faith, God does use all His creation to speak to us. I met an amazing sister in Christ who like you loves animals, you even share her hair color (coverage). And she is very sensitive to her natural surroundings of God's creation.

God uses her in serious warfare, we met at an open Heavens conference and I sense in you much anointing for creation. There No doubt in my Spirit that you are or would be a great intercessor for the Lord.

And even maybe a prayer warrior. If you haven't yet, check out xpmedia with Paricia King, she's a real angel who gathers the elect.

Women in this Day are making up some of the greatest warriors in God's end time army for sure. Because of purity we see in them. Remember it was Eve who called the ennemy a deceiver, so many sisters have that amazing anointing to warfare.

Have you ever considered deliverance ministry or intercession?

Be blessed.

Marc

I'm late in responding to this, but I meant to. Marc, if you happen back to this thread and see this post, can you elaborate on what you're saying here. I've read it 3 times and can't understand what you are saying. Since I don't understand, perhaps I'm way off base. It sounds like new ageism - one with creation - all creation is God - type of stuff. I hope I'm way off.

Thanks in advance for responding!!

mjjcb

 

[MMarc]

Hey Faith, God does use all His creation to speak to us. I met an amazing sister in Christ who like you loves animals, you even share her hair color (coverage). And she is very sensitive to her natural surroundings of God's creation.

God uses her in serious warfare, we met at an open Heavens conference and I sense in you much anointing for creation. There No doubt in my Spirit that you are or would be a great intercessor for the Lord.

And even maybe a prayer warrior. If you haven't yet, check out xpmedia with Paricia King, she's a real angel who gathers the elect.

Women in this Day are making up some of the greatest warriors in God's end time army for sure. Because of purity we see in them. Remember it was Eve who called the ennemy a deceiver, so many sisters have that amazing anointing to warfare.

Have you ever considered deliverance ministry or intercession?

Be blessed.

Marc

I'm late in responding to this, but I meant to. Marc, if you happen back to this thread and see this post, can you elaborate on what you're saying here. I've read it 3 times and can't understand what you are saying. Since I don't understand, perhaps I'm way off base. It sounds like new ageism - one with creation - all creation is God - type of stuff. I hope I'm way off.

Thanks in advance for responding!!

mjjcb

If God can use donkeys to talk to people, He can use all His creation to speak to us for signs. I don't worship God's creation but I know when someone is sensitive to God's signs.

As all creation sings the Glory of God, for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, as Jesus says, will discern when God gives signs. Remember God created ALL THINGS.

The idea is to reconcile Heaven and earth as it was meant to be in the beginning, before the fall. Joel 2 ''they see the garden before them...''

BTW Faith, glory to God you got a new car!

And mjjcb, I hope this answers you're question. Here is something you might want to try.

Ask God/Jesus/Holy Spirit a question or a prayer etc. Now wait for an answer, you will know He has answered you when you receive a sign, the Holy Spirit will bring back to memory your prayer...

As children we were taught to pray to God but not to listen to God. And after He has answered you do it again! It will come to pass that you will be talking in real time with God and He will answer you in real time. Just like the prophets and apostles used to do.

This relation is now available to all of us who love Jesus. Imagine conversing with your creator?
Your parents didn't give birth to you to put you in a closet. They interacted with you. This is why Jesus died for you, by washing away your sins you too have access to the Almighty/Jesus/HS.

God wants to interact with His creation, and His children! Ask and you shall receive, seek and shall find, knock and it will open to you. The Kingdom of God is in you access it, believe, and voila!

Let me know how that goes.
Be blessed

 

[jasoncran]

yes, but one must be cautious with that as the flesh will answer that as well. a church does something called journaling down the road from me. this done is silence and with prayer where you write what you hear from the lord. you would be suprised what the flesh says. Does the LORD use that. yes. But you must be aware and put things on the shelf.

 

[Mike]

The Kingdom of God is in you access it, believe, and voila!

Marc, I don't disagree with anything you said, but as it relates to the topic at hand in this thread, this doesn't seem to apply. If you take this to its conclusion and end up asking for a car, or a house, or whatever, you are no longer seeking the Kingdom of God. You are focusing on being blessed by worldly things.

Let me ask you this. If you want a boat. You really want a boat. Is there a chance the love for a boat could become a wedge between you and a meaningful relationship with God? Could that boat become a sort of obsession that turns out to distract you from the quiet time you're talking about? Could this boat become so important that you would do anything to keep it? Now, backing up a few questions, could the forces of evil know your weakness for this love and convince someone to talk to you about selling their boat to you? Could they suggest that your price that you are willing to pay is acceptable, and that your price you're willing to pay is better than nothing at all?

I don't obsess with getting things from God or hearing the answer I want to hear. Whether the Lord says "yes", "no" or "wait", I pray for a heart that rejoices in His will for me. Getting "things" isn't necessarily a "blessing". Having them isn't wrong. Making them important enough to become an idol is. Finding "no" or "wait" to mean that you aren't being blessed is wrong.

This flies in the face of Osteen's ministry. So does the absolute unwavering Truth of the Gospel. Wavering is wrong, leaving out accountability is wrong, prosperity preaching is wrong. Osteen is not building up the church. A Christian who doesn't see through his flawed theology is not being led by the Spirit.

 

[Danus]

I posted something in another thread that I wondered about. I wanted to put it up for discussion.

I don't see how Christians can reconcile Joel Olsteen's theology with scripture. Now, I've only watched about 5 minutes of him. But besides his polished tele-evangelist style, I disagree with his whole ministry. As I understand it, he has it that if you pray for it, and your faith is strong, God will provide it. I've even heard it said that he will go so far as to say that God has no choice but to honor the prayer request of a faithful Christian.

Am I wrong? If I'm right, where is the supporting scripture in that?

mjjcb, I have not read through all the replies, but I would agree with you on Olsteen. He teaches a "Prosperity Gospel" TD Jakes is another one. Both are OK preachers as far as firing up a crowd I guess, but I think they lead people down a false path. I would tell anyone searching for God's word to avoid these guys big time. I think they are totally in it for themselves first and God second, if at all.

 

[faithtransforms]

I really don't like Joel Osteen. But NOT ALL PREACHERS OF PROSPERITY ARE BAD! TD Jakes believes in it, but I've seen his show many, many times and he didn't mention prosperity at all. He has the gift of exhortation. He preaches the Word and encourages his congregation that they can get the victory, that the battle is the Lord's. The problem with most people who don't like TD Jakes or Kenneth Copeland for example, is that they may have seen some footage or watched a show or two, decided they are false prophets and that's it. End of story. You DON'T KNOW ENOUGH about them to judge them the way you do. Some of you probably do, but I suspect most of you don't.

Kenneth Copeland is my absolute favorite preacher. Now yes, he preaches prosperity, but that IS NOT the majority of his message by any means. He and his wife Gloria preach obedience to the Word of God first and foremost. They preach holiness. And they preach that God will bless you if you seek first the Kingdom. His message is really about obedience. He believes in wealth for Christians, and if you don't believe that, fine. But you guys need to stop judging people that most of you know very little about. He believes it is ok to have a big house and a nice car, as long as they aren't idols. He also teaches that, as well as being obedient, you must be a cheerful giver. He says God blesses you according to your giving. Which is in perfect agreement with Luke 6:38 "Give , and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down , and shaken together , and running over , shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again." He says if you don't give money to give, give time to the Lord or serve the poor or when you're going through your closet and gathering old clothes for the homeless shelter, don't just give out the old stuff you want, that isn't a sacrifice. Give one of your best dresses or suits. That's a sacrifice. Whe Araunah offered Dave an free animal to slaughter, David said "Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing". It is the sacrifice that brings the blessings. Not under the law, but imitating your Father as a dear child, you give, and it is given back to you. What you give doesn't have to be money.

 

[jasoncran]

one a theological level, is giving always going mean the you will get things? no.

it may be other things. i dont feel comfortable saying that if you give you get things or more money. that leads to i give because i want to be blessed, rather giving to the work as you are blessing the lord by telling him thanks for the things you given me and i want to return some back so that the poor and the lost can be ministered too.

 

[Mike]

faithtransforms, I wonder if you would care to comment on this. And then tell me how this line of thought is compatible with the idea of prosperity preaching...

Let me ask you this. If you want a boat. You really want a boat. Is there a chance the love for a boat could become a wedge between you and a meaningful relationship with God? Could that boat become a sort of obsession that turns out to distract you from the quiet time you're talking about? Could this boat become so important that you would do anything to keep it? Now, backing up a few questions, could the forces of evil know your weakness for this love and convince someone to talk to you about selling their boat to you? Could they suggest that your price that you are willing to pay is acceptable, and that your price you're willing to pay is better than nothing at all?

I don't obsess with getting things from God or hearing the answer I want to hear. Whether the Lord says "yes", "no" or "wait", I pray for a heart that rejoices in His will for me. Getting "things" isn't necessarily a "blessing". Having them isn't wrong. Making them important enough to become an idol is. Finding "no" or "wait" to mean that you aren't being blessed is wrong.

I'm just using "I" to make my point. I'm not saying "I do this. Look at me". I believe there are people much more blessed by not having prayer requests answered they way they would want. Alternatively, I would say there are some people who are cursed with things that come to stand in the way of a relationship with God.

Thanks Faith!

 

[faithtransforms]

one a theological level, is giving always going mean the you will get things? no.

it may be other things. i dont feel comfortable saying that if you give you get things or more money. that leads to i give because i want to be blessed, rather giving to the work as you are blessing the lord by telling him thanks for the things you given me and i want to return some back so that the poor and the lost can be ministered too.

If you give with the wrong motive in your heart, God will not bless that. So those people that give just to blessed, aren't going to get very far. It has to come from the heart or God will not honor it.

But Luke 6:38 says "Give and it will be given back to you." I see no ambiguity there. It's pretty clear to me. "Give , and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down , and shaken together , and running over , shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again ." Those words are written in RED. That is Jesus talking.

 

[jasoncran]

one a theological level, is giving always going mean the you will get things? no.

it may be other things. i dont feel comfortable saying that if you give you get things or more money. that leads to i give because i want to be blessed, rather giving to the work as you are blessing the lord by telling him thanks for the things you given me and i want to return some back so that the poor and the lost can be ministered too.

If you give with the wrong motive in your heart, God will not bless that. So those people that give just to blessed, aren't going to get very far. It has to come from the heart or God will not honor it.

But Luke 6:38 says "Give and it will be given back to you." I see no ambiguity there. It's pretty clear to me. "Give , and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down , and shaken together , and running over , shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again ." Those words are written in RED. That is Jesus talking.

then what say you to this?
i know a woman who has always been faithful in giving and is taken care of but i wouldnt say blessed as big large cars, and a house , and so on. needs met, yes. but not driving a brand new car, or anything like that.

sometimes we confuse that verse with the here and now, when it can mean also that in hereafter.

the problem with that is, we look for the return. i dont when i tithed. never did. i gave and let god bless. but sometimes his blessing werent always to bless me(ie i got what i asked and i didnt want it later on)

the career field i'm in. i aksed and i was lead to do this(turn wrenches) now i'm stuck and theres no where to climb up. i dont want to be 50 turnin wrenches. hard on the body.


you can also say that verse with these things

comfort
time
ministry