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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Joel Olsteen
- Thread starter Mike
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Mike
Member
happyjoy said:
happyjoy, no one is going to have an impact on you and your spiritual journey other than the Holy Spirit. In the few weeks that I've been on the board, you stand out to me as someone who's trying to find the Truth. I hope I'm right. If you seek, you will find. If you're looking for the path of least resistance and a "feel good" message that you will find no conviction in, Joel Osteen is the one for you.
When I posed a question for atheists in the Theology forum, you were among those that challenged the Bible. I guess you will need to open yourself up to the Holy Spirit to be led, and not lead yourself. If you see Christianity as having no Truth and remain fixed in your bias, then I believe there is nothing I or anyone else can say. As Christians, we can only share the Gospel. Whether or not it is accepted, we move on and let the Lord do His work.
Your opinion of Christians (drinking blood, eating flesh, fire & brimstone) is a twisted way of viewing what we are all about. If that's what you believe we are all about, quite frankly you've been listening to the wrong people. "Healers" drudging up people, slapping people in the forehead and healing them is a stereotype created by people who have used honest Christianity for personal gain, in my opinion.
Christians find "happiness and Joy" in being loved by God, accepting the Gospel and loving Him enough to accept His Word. Sometimes this means accepting the Truths He has established even if they initially convict us and force us to point out our own flaws.
I might chime in if I see you making false claims of Christianity, but I will try not to make any work of changing your heart. That's a trap that I need to overcome and leave it to Him. I don't believe people "hate" Joel Osteen, but we hate the way he allows people to live however they want and doesn't challenge people to accept the Truth. And I certainly hate a message that says God will give us riches on earth if we ask for them. Our riches are stored up in Heaven and have nothing to do with worldly wealth. Wealth and "things" are not necessarily wrong, but being fixated on them is. Jesus did not say money is the root of all evil. He said the "love of" money is. We can have things and not feel guilty as long as they don't become an obsession or stand in the way of a relationship with him. Joel Osteen stands does not preach the full Gospel. He's afraid to hold people accountable to the convicting tenets of Christianity.
I'm sure we will meet again on the board. If you find that I am trying to persuade you to change your heart, please feel free to point it out to me.
Jesus, I leave happyjoy in Your Hands. Holy Spirit, I ask you to speak to her. God, I pray your blessing on her. All in One, I pray for a miracle to happen in happyjoy's heart. Amen!
faithtransforms
Member
Joel Osteen isn't all that bad. I don't watch him, because he isn't into deep doctrine, which is what I like. But I have seen him some and I don't think he's a bad guy. His father John Osteen was a fine man of God.
Anyway, the bible does say that "God will surround the righteous with favor like a shield" (somewhere in Psalms). The bible also says "God takes pleasure in the prosperity of his servant" Prov 35:7 I think. The bible also says if we pray according to His will, we know he heareth us, and we have the petitions we have requested of Him" (I think that's in first John somewhere). We know we are praying according to His will if it lines up with scripture). Psalm 112 says that "wealth and riches shall be in the home of him who delights greatly in His (God's) commandments." Now, Psalms and Proverbs are not part of the law. They didn't pass away, which means they are valid today. Jesus also said, "whatsoever things ye desire when ye pray, believe ye receive them and ye shall have them." In Psalms it also says "Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." Now, all that is scriptural.
So Joel Osteen isn't coming totally out of left field with what he teaches, and I think he means well. While he doesn't do much for me, I'm not going to condemn him. I actually saw a 2 hour interview with he and his wife on TBN, there was definitely some substance there.
The bible also says in relation to judging other believers, "Who are you to judge another man's servant?"
People think prosperity is not scriptural but it is. Jesus (in part) died so that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles (Galations). The blessing of Abraham was, I will bless those who bless you, and curse those you curse you and I will make you plenteous in goods and will bless you and be with you.
Now those scriptures I cited above relate to prosperity, and they are still valid today. It is true, if you have enough FAITH in God's word, not just believe but have FAITH, God WILL answer your prayers. I don't believe it is God's will that someone be sick or die of cancer or that sort of thing. But you have to be rock solid on the Word building your faith and standing on the promises for them to manifest. God is a good God, and He wants to bless us, but we receive nothing from Him without faith.
Anyway, the bible does say that "God will surround the righteous with favor like a shield" (somewhere in Psalms). The bible also says "God takes pleasure in the prosperity of his servant" Prov 35:7 I think. The bible also says if we pray according to His will, we know he heareth us, and we have the petitions we have requested of Him" (I think that's in first John somewhere). We know we are praying according to His will if it lines up with scripture). Psalm 112 says that "wealth and riches shall be in the home of him who delights greatly in His (God's) commandments." Now, Psalms and Proverbs are not part of the law. They didn't pass away, which means they are valid today. Jesus also said, "whatsoever things ye desire when ye pray, believe ye receive them and ye shall have them." In Psalms it also says "Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." Now, all that is scriptural.
So Joel Osteen isn't coming totally out of left field with what he teaches, and I think he means well. While he doesn't do much for me, I'm not going to condemn him. I actually saw a 2 hour interview with he and his wife on TBN, there was definitely some substance there.
The bible also says in relation to judging other believers, "Who are you to judge another man's servant?"
People think prosperity is not scriptural but it is. Jesus (in part) died so that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles (Galations). The blessing of Abraham was, I will bless those who bless you, and curse those you curse you and I will make you plenteous in goods and will bless you and be with you.
Now those scriptures I cited above relate to prosperity, and they are still valid today. It is true, if you have enough FAITH in God's word, not just believe but have FAITH, God WILL answer your prayers. I don't believe it is God's will that someone be sick or die of cancer or that sort of thing. But you have to be rock solid on the Word building your faith and standing on the promises for them to manifest. God is a good God, and He wants to bless us, but we receive nothing from Him without faith.
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Well, there are many parts to the body. I don't think any one preacher can be the total fulfillment of any one. Only Holy Spirit of God through Christ Jesus can do that. And anyone who denies that is just not willing to learn from Holy Spirit. Pastors are not the end all means of my spiritual growing. But they are only teachers who help me partly, in my moving forward. Even Jesus, when he went as a child to listen to the Rabbi the synagogues... I'm sure he didn't have just one throughout his youth that he listened to and had as assistants in his mentoring. (That's not to say that he needed them but, Jesus, come in the flesh, "AS OUR EXAMPLE" had many Rabbi that he learned scriptures and had discussions with about them. It is written that they were marveled at Jesus' intelligence as a boy. So then, why should we rely only on one pastor or mentor or even only one church? Jesus traveled and didn't have just one building or Rabbi. I don't even recall Jesus saying that a "membership" to any one particular church is the thing for all of us to do. "Church "membership" is nothing but church doctrine. I don't see any thing in the bible that says stay in one church and only one church as a member of that church. If there is please show me, so I can be corrected.
The scriptures are our BASE from which we make our decisions and gather our logic. NOT man. Man is only an assistant... HOLY SPIRIT IS OUR GUIDE.
Like I said earlier, I think Joel is a great motivational speaker, and that's about all I get from out of his ministry. If I want a minister who gives a really hard core biblical conviction type of preaching.... ummmm, well, the Baptists and the Pentecostals are great for that.
And in order to discern the spirit of truth or deception that would or might come from out of the mouth of any preacher or from any ministry, or person... I most definitely only rely on what I've learned from "the WHOLE Bible", all scriptures, as I am guided by Holy Spirit of my Father God/Christ Jesus who is the only one who teaches me spiritual discernment. Man can twist and turn the truth into a lie, a deception... but it is only HOLY SPIRIT of Father God/Christ Jesus that reveals the truth and exposes the lies.
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Well, there are many parts to the body. I don't think any one preacher can be the total fulfillment of any one. Only Holy Spirit of God through Christ Jesus can do that. And anyone who denies that is just not willing to learn from Holy Spirit. Pastors are not the end all means of my spiritual growing. But they are only teachers who help me partly, in my moving forward. Even Jesus, when he went as a child to listen to the Rabbi the synagogues... I'm sure he didn't have just one throughout his youth that he listened to and had as assistants in his mentoring. (That's not to say that he needed them but, Jesus, come in the flesh, "AS OUR EXAMPLE" had many Rabbi that he learned scriptures and had discussions with about them. It is written that they were marveled at Jesus' intelligence as a boy. So then, why should we rely only on one pastor or mentor or even only one church? Jesus traveled and didn't have just one building or Rabbi. I don't even recall Jesus saying that a "membership" to any one particular church is the thing for all of us to do. "Church "membership" is nothing but church doctrine. I don't see any thing in the bible that says stay in one church and only one church as a member of that church. If there is please show me, so I can be corrected.
The scriptures are our BASE from which we make our decisions and gather our logic. NOT man. Man is only an assistant... HOLY SPIRIT IS OUR GUIDE.
Like I said earlier, I think Joel is a great motivational speaker, and that's about all I get from out of his ministry. If I want a minister who gives a really hard core biblical conviction type of preaching.... ummmm, well, the Baptists and the Pentecostals are great for that.
And in order to discern the spirit of truth or deception that would or might come from out of the mouth of any preacher or from any ministry, or person... I most definitely only rely on what I've learned from "the WHOLE Bible", all scriptures, as I am guided by Holy Spirit of my Father God/Christ Jesus who is the only one who teaches me spiritual discernment. Man can twist and turn the truth into a lie, a deception... but it is only HOLY SPIRIT of Father God/Christ Jesus that reveals the truth and exposes the lies.
.
Mike
Member
So in the past few posts, we've established that Osteen is:
Not all that bad
Not a bad guy
He means well
A great motivational speaker
This all might make him a wonderful coworker, but that's not the criteria for a shepherd of God's people.
2
As I said, having things isn't bad if they don't become an idol for you. When they do, Jesus has something to say to you.
Mt. 6 19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
He leaves out the Gospel to broaden his audience and confuses too many people who don't fully understand the difference between spiritual and worldly wealth. He IS out in left field with prosperity preaching. Some of the most richly blessed people in the world have no wealth.
Not all that bad
Not a bad guy
He means well
A great motivational speaker
This all might make him a wonderful coworker, but that's not the criteria for a shepherd of God's people.
2 As I said, having things isn't bad if they don't become an idol for you. When they do, Jesus has something to say to you.
Mt. 6 19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
He leaves out the Gospel to broaden his audience and confuses too many people who don't fully understand the difference between spiritual and worldly wealth. He IS out in left field with prosperity preaching. Some of the most richly blessed people in the world have no wealth.
Mysteryman
Member
Joel is just one of many sons who took over their father's ministry. That alone should tell you something. I know of no son who took over their father's ministry within the church epistles, or book of Acts, or later epistles. Men of God are appointed by God, not man or men or father's. Men of God , anoint other men, by the will of God. Elders, are those who hold true the gospel of Christ for a length of time. Elders also eat the meat of the Word. While Apostles, Prophets and Teachers eat the strong meat of the Word.
I do not see any example of Joel being any .
Many men will ordain whoever they well please. As long as it is for the good of their money hungry ministry.
I do not see any example of Joel being any .
Many men will ordain whoever they well please. As long as it is for the good of their money hungry ministry.
NinaMMitchell
Member
It might be a good idea to actually listen to what he teaches, then read the Bible and compare. There is no comparison he does not know scripture and on talks about being blessed. The Bible talks about deception..........it also talks about Jesus saying I did not know you.
Please explain when the Bible said we are not sinners. WE ALL ARE and as a minister of Christ he needs to be clear. Yes we are not to judge the world but we are ALL SINNERS.[/quote]
Maybe he just meant that he is not going to call someone a sinner because he's a sinner too, and to him maybe that's judgmental.
faithtransforms
Member
DarcyLu said:prosperity means to be secure, quiet and at ease, it does not mean "be wealthy and rich" - which Osteen does teach, he is a false teacher and offers false hope.faithtransforms said:
Psalm 112
1 Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.
2 His seed shall be mighty upon earth: the generation of the upright shall be blessed.
3 Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
As I have said, the psalms are NOT part of the law. They did not pass away. How do you explain the above scripture? I agree Christians shouldn't be trying to pimp God for mansions and Rolls Royce's, but prosperity involves that we "always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work" 2 COR 9:8.
How are Christians supposed to feed the hungry and clothe the naked if we don't have any money?! Imagine what a bunch of honest, god-fearing wealthy Christians could do for this earth. Money is not the root of all evil, the love of money is.
jasoncran
Member
that transcript says it all as i watched that one live.
he looked like he wasnt sure of what the bible says.
its clear on that.
did not jesus say i am the way the truth and life or only by me can one come to the father.
or this he that believeth not is condemned already and has the wrath of God abinding on him.
his words(the Lord) not mine. he judges the lost not me. we are to be his messengers that tell others to repent.
he looked like he wasnt sure of what the bible says.
its clear on that.
did not jesus say i am the way the truth and life or only by me can one come to the father.
or this he that believeth not is condemned already and has the wrath of God abinding on him.
his words(the Lord) not mine. he judges the lost not me. we are to be his messengers that tell others to repent.
hi faithtransforms,faithtransforms said:
it would be nice, wouldn't it? if all of us Christians were wealthy and rich, yet the "prosperity gospel" is a false gospel - and Joel is exactly one of them who this verse refers to:
1 Timothy 6:5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
in addition, with Joel teaching millions of people, his job would be to lead the flock to the Lord, but how can anyone do that if he is "afraid" to mention sin - he even admits he doesn't like to discuss sin because "people are already down, why make them feel worse" lol say what? it's on his website if you want to check it out.jasoncran said:
faithtransforms
Member
Joel Osteen knows the truth, he was just trying not to alienate people. It was a bad move for sure. And interestingly enough, right after he got all that flack for what he said on Larry King, I watched his show and they were up there pleading the blood of Jesus and repenting and all this. Honestly, I think his biggest problem is that he's just wimpy. Again, I'm not a fan, but who am I to judge another man's servant? The guy is saved, he's not a false prophet, his father was a great man of God. I just honestly don't think he's a good decision maker. I personally get nothing out of his services, and I BELIEVE in prosperity!!! But I really think he means well.
faithtransforms
Member
DarcyLu said:
You haven't addressed my question. How do you account for Psalm 112? There are CONSTANT references to the wealth and prosperity of the righteous in Psalms and Proverbs. And as I have said, they are not part of the law, they did NOT pass away. So how do you answer this?
jasoncran
Member
simple read the book acts and then theres apostle paul who had no home.
in timothy what does it command to those that have money.
it also deals with the poor, if i remember correctly
many of the apostles died poor. that verse may mean riches is heaven.
can god bless us financally yes, but that doesnt mean that we (all of us) are to be wealthy,
what does matt 6:33 seek FIRST THE KINDGDOM OF HEAVEN and all things will be added to you.
if read the verses before that, Jesus was talking about worrying about those fancy clothes and such like and what food you were to eat. he was saying that God will provide for you, that means needs not wants. though he does give more than we could ever ask.
in timothy what does it command to those that have money.
it also deals with the poor, if i remember correctly
many of the apostles died poor. that verse may mean riches is heaven.
can god bless us financally yes, but that doesnt mean that we (all of us) are to be wealthy,
what does matt 6:33 seek FIRST THE KINDGDOM OF HEAVEN and all things will be added to you.
if read the verses before that, Jesus was talking about worrying about those fancy clothes and such like and what food you were to eat. he was saying that God will provide for you, that means needs not wants. though he does give more than we could ever ask.
oh, forgot to answer, sorry...faithtransforms said:
the hebrew word wealth, in short, means "enough", God gives us what we need, do we need to be all rich? no the prosperity gospel basically says we should all be rich or at least well off enough to give to the poor, have enough leftover at the end of the day and if you look at communities around the US or even in other nations, this is not the case - this is why the food banks in the US has increased their clientele over the past few years. if you look at the poorest nations, some of the communities don't even have homes. there are alot of haitians who are Christians, who are now sleeping in tents if they are lucky.
faithtransforms
Member
The bible says "Charge the rich in this world that they be not high-minded".
AGAIN, I am NOT saying people should be trying to pimp God for mansions and Rolls Royce's. But the bible says "Owe no man anything". Guess what that means? We aren't supposed to be in debt! Anti-prosperity people conveniently skip over such statements. And yes, when you seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, all these things will be added unto you. About a year after I got saved, I was so on fire for God it was incredible. I sought the kingdom of God constantly, and you know what God did? He gave me a brand new car, paid for, no car payment, no debt. He's no respector of persons. I had never had a car less than 10 years old in my life!!! (And I was 30 at the time). I wasn't believing God for a new car either, it just happened!
Once AGAIN I will say, I am NOT saying people should be trying to pimp God for mansions and Rolls Royce's. But to have enough to feed your family. To have cars you don't have to fear will break down at every moment, to have money to send your kids to school...yes, I believe God will provide all these things if you continually seek Him, and I mean seek His Face, not His hand.
AGAIN, I am NOT saying people should be trying to pimp God for mansions and Rolls Royce's. But the bible says "Owe no man anything". Guess what that means? We aren't supposed to be in debt! Anti-prosperity people conveniently skip over such statements. And yes, when you seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, all these things will be added unto you. About a year after I got saved, I was so on fire for God it was incredible. I sought the kingdom of God constantly, and you know what God did? He gave me a brand new car, paid for, no car payment, no debt. He's no respector of persons. I had never had a car less than 10 years old in my life!!! (And I was 30 at the time). I wasn't believing God for a new car either, it just happened!
Once AGAIN I will say, I am NOT saying people should be trying to pimp God for mansions and Rolls Royce's. But to have enough to feed your family. To have cars you don't have to fear will break down at every moment, to have money to send your kids to school...yes, I believe God will provide all these things if you continually seek Him, and I mean seek His Face, not His hand.