John 3:16

[francisdesales]

I have already said how I am working out my salvation and it isn't by my works.
I am working out my salvation. Not by not sinning but by keeping my faith, trust, confidence and hope squarely on the work of Jesus on the cross while all the time religious people are telling me I am to place my faith, trust, confidence and hope in my ability to stop sinning in the flesh. I am fulfilling John 3:16-18

That is not YOU working out anything. Paul doesn't mention any of that in Phil 2:12. Is this what James says we are to do, or is there something more? Christianity also consists of a particular ethics, that while utterly depending on God, is not something that we are absent or not responsible for. Salvation to eternal life is based upon many "if's".

The only thing that condemns in this age of God's grace is the sin of not believing in Jesus (John 3:16-18). That means in His work on the cross.

How about Matthew 7:21-23. Perhaps a refresher course is in order. Many cry out and say "Lord, Lord". This is an act of faith. No one can do this without the Spirit of God. This confession of faith is short of something, as James and Jesus note.

Since you seem to be saying you are doing things in the flesh to work out your savaltion does that mean you are making yourself perfect by the deeds of the flesh?

When I am in Christ, I am not doing things "in the flesh". Romans 8 clearly states this.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

I think my way of working out my salvation is closer to the truth.

It is a partial truth.

How about continuing onto Gal 5, the end of the chapter? Or perhaps later in Gal 6 - "nothing else matters" but what? is it "faith alone", Richard? Is it faith and trust and all of what you say above? no. Find the citation I am referring to and read it. "Nothing else matters but...".

Your way sets up a system where some are closer to God by their works; by being able to stop sinning in the flesh. Under your way a person can decieve themselve into thinking they no longer sin in the flesh.That is foolish since no one can keep laws and commadments.

Sure we can. Men can keep the commandments of God and are EXPECTED to, according to Scriptures. The ability is given to us by the Spirit, who re-fashions us a heart that is not stone, one that obeys God willingly, when we allow the Spirit to move us. One John over and over tells us that we can obey the commandments and THIS VERY ACT is proof of Jesus' abiding presence within us.

I am a sinner in the flesh and always will be. I thank God always for His love for me, and others, that caused Him to do all the work of saving my soul on the cross. He knew I could not do it.

Those in Christ are not in the flesh, correct?

Regards

 

[RichardBurger]

I have already said how I am working out my salvation and it isn't by my works.
I am working out my salvation. Not by not sinning but by keeping my faith, trust, confidence and hope squarely on the work of Jesus on the cross while all the time religious people are telling me I am to place my faith, trust, confidence and hope in my ability to stop sinning in the flesh. I am fulfilling John 3:16-18

That is not YOU working out anything. Paul doesn't mention any of that in Phil 2:12. Is this what James says we are to do, or is there something more? Christianity also consists of a particular ethics, that while utterly depending on God, is not something that we are absent or not responsible for. Salvation to eternal life is based upon many "if's".

The only thing that condemns in this age of God's grace is the sin of not believing in Jesus (John 3:16-18). That means in His work on the cross.

How about Matthew 7:21-23. Perhaps a refresher course is in order. Many cry out and say "Lord, Lord". This is an act of faith. No one can do this without the Spirit of God. This confession of faith is short of something, as James and Jesus note.

Since you seem to be saying you are doing things in the flesh to work out your savaltion does that mean you are making yourself perfect by the deeds of the flesh?

When I am in Christ, I am not doing things "in the flesh". Romans 8 clearly states this.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

I think my way of working out my salvation is closer to the truth.

It is a partial truth.

How about continuing onto Gal 5, the end of the chapter? Or perhaps later in Gal 6 - "nothing else matters" but what? is it "faith alone", Richard? Is it faith and trust and all of what you say above? no. Find the citation I am referring to and read it. "Nothing else matters but...".

Your way sets up a system where some are closer to God by their works; by being able to stop sinning in the flesh. Under your way a person can decieve themselve into thinking they no longer sin in the flesh.That is foolish since no one can keep laws and commadments.

Sure we can. Men can keep the commandments of God and are EXPECTED to, according to Scriptures. The ability is given to us by the Spirit, who re-fashions us a heart that is not stone, one that obeys God willingly, when we allow the Spirit to move us. One John over and over tells us that we can obey the commandments and THIS VERY ACT is proof of Jesus' abiding presence within us.

I am a sinner in the flesh and always will be. I thank God always for His love for me, and others, that caused Him to do all the work of saving my soul on the cross. He knew I could not do it.

Those in Christ are not in the flesh, correct?

Regards

You said; "Salvation to eternal life is based upon many "if's"." I am sorry you see it that way because that means you never know you are a child of God or not. It also means you are a legalist and think you work out your salvation by what YOU do. In other words you want to take some of the credit for your salvation and you share the credit with Jesus.

As for me I know I am a child of God. Not because of what I do but because of what He (Jesus) did on the cross. He gets all the glory. I have placed ALL my faith, trust, confidence and hope in His work on the cross. As the scriptures say "he who trusts in the Lord will never be put to shame."

I will now end my replies on this thread since it is going no where fast.

 

[shad]

In other words you want to take some of the credit for your salvation and you share the credit with Jesus.

You are wrong with your assumption. No one is saying we take credit for our salvation. Jesus says nothing is impossible with God's help. We give all credit to Jesus. The Bible also says no one can do anything good, not even one. That means all good things come from God. So no one can boast. You seem to be following your church doctrine instead of reading the Bible yourself. You seem to be parroting your church doctrine.

 

[francisdesales]

You said; "Salvation to eternal life is based upon many "if's"." I am sorry you see it that way because that means you never know you are a child of God or not.

Not true. I know I am a child of God when I am baptized into the death of Jesus Christ. I know this by faith in the promise. But that promise doesn't mean that God has no choice anymore and He must bring me to heaven, even if I turn into an unrepentant murderer. We have confidence AS LONG AS Christ abides in us. One John tells us WHEN He abides in us and how we can know.

It also means you are a legalist and think you work out your salvation by what YOU do. In other words you want to take some of the credit for your salvation and you share the credit with Jesus.

Is Christ being judged or am I being judged...??? When I stand before God, does God judge the Christ? It appears you believe that Jesus is judged whenver a man stands before God - since Christ's work redeemed EVERY man on earth. If ANY man is convicted for hell, does this mean that Jesus is judged to have failed? If man does nothing regarding salvation, then is it Jesus' fault?

Regards

 

[RichardBurger]

No works of the flesh involved.

Romans 10:3-11
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them."
6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 or, "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
NKJV

There is nothing in the above that says we do anything to get or keep salvation except believe in Him. It is totally a work of God. But the religious will never accept a salvation in which they have no control.

 

[RichardBurger]

In other words you want to take some of the credit for your salvation and you share the credit with Jesus.

You are wrong with your assumption. No one is saying we take credit for our salvation. Jesus says nothing is impossible with God's help. We give all credit to Jesus. The Bible also says no one can do anything good, not even one. That means all good things come from God. So no one can boast. You seem to be following your church doctrine instead of reading the Bible yourself. You seem to be parroting your church doctrine.

And , of course, you are not parroting yours. Ha! Ha!

 

[francisdesales]

No works of the flesh involved.

Richard,

I have already stated that a person in Christ is not "working in the flesh". Please don't make me repeat what I have already written over and over again. I have a life outside of this forum.

Thanks.