John 3:16

[RichardBurger]

Please read what I am saying. I am talking about Jesus' commandments, not Moses' law. Jesus says "if you love Me Keep my commandments"

Okay, then explain the commandments you are talking about. Surely you can list them since you say we must keep them.

It is all over the New Testament especially in the sermon on the mount. Example; love your enemy.

Okay how about this one in the same sermon;

Matthew 5:48
48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
NKJV

You don't seem to understand that Jesus was showing the Jews that human beings can not keep the perfect laws of God. They need for God to do something to save them. And He did on the cross.

Why do you try and place the children of God under rules and regulations. No one living in human sinful flesh can stop from sinning no matter how many commands are given and that includes everyone. It is very obvious to me that those that say we must obey commandments don't really know what commandment we, under grace, are to follow. They really do not comprehend what John 3:16-18 is saying.

The only sin that condemns, under grace, is the sin of un-belief in Jesus Christ. If you don't believe he is the Son of God then you certainly can't believe ""His work on the cross saves you". And if you think your endeavors to not sin are going to keep you saved you are wrong. His work on the cross is sufficent to save anyone that trust in it.

 

[jasoncran]

hmm that would be hard for a gay man that wants to get saved to do on his own.

gays need power from on high to change. if the lord doesnt change them, when we make statements like that(we need to follow this or that) will cause them to give up.

no, i am not saying that its ok for us to sin. just that prayer and accountabiltiy is needed and also that they must know that they can(gays) can remain celebate, and pray and believe that the lord does change them.

its frustrating , with porn i struggled for yrs, i would watch it, feel guilty, cry out to god, then try not to think about that sin, but then all of sudden a girl would walk by wearing half of nothing in the store, gym and anywhere, and the cycle.

i was eventually delivered, but the temptation is still strong. its not easy when the word around says sex and such like is ok. even worse for the gays to change when the world calls that normal.

 

[shad]

You don't seem to understand that Jesus was showing the Jews that human beings can not keep the perfect laws of God. They need for God to do something to save them. And He did on the cross.

Why does Jesus give us so many commandments if we cannot keep them? Jesus also says nothing is impossible with God's help. Why does Jesus say if "you love me keep my commandments" if we cannot keep them?

You seem to be misusing the Scriptures.

 

[jasoncran]

because shad, we dont have the power, if you read my post you would see that.

we need power, what is that power?

jn 1:12 "but as many recieved him,to them he gave power to become the sons of GOD,even to them that believeth on his name"

power to change that is what is needed. unless the lord changes us we simply cant do that.

 

[shad]

because shad, we dont have the power, if you read my post you would see that.

we need power, what is that power?

jn 1:12 "but as many recieved him,to them he gave power to become the sons of GOD,even to them that believeth on his name"

power to change that is what is needed. unless the lord changes us we simply cant do that.

Again and again with the excuses. Jesus simply says "nothing is impossible with God's help". You don't seem to believe in Jesus' words. Your kind of faith leads to an unvictorious Christainity.

 

[jasoncran]

wow! flippin amazing judgment. really
i prayed hard for my deliverance from porn, fasted, asked others to help me. it had a stronghold on me
every heard of stronghold sin?

i got delivered. i dont like porn at all. i went to the alter at my church to pray, and the hs overtook me and i spoke in the given prayer language and on that day i no longer look at porn
how did that happen

shad, you judge me and others every day,you claim that you have the only correct interpration, and yet pass juddgements, that is a sin, and if i took it your way, you arent saved, never have been

but i dont .

as i'm not able to do that since i am not GOD, nor do i live near you.

learn some mercy. i make no excuse for my struggle but if you ever actually walked with the lord, you find that you cant do it nor be perfect.

i never, ever have made an excuse for my porn struggle and when i posted on it, it was for prayer and to my shame as i was confessing my faults.i wanted deliverance. that is why i wont bother asking prayer from you, as i woild get judged.

 

[shad]

here is what you said:

jasoncran wrote:
because shad, we dont have the power, if you read my post you would see that.

You seem to be saying Jesus is lying. Jesus says nothing is impossible with God. You have been making excuses one after another to deny Jesus' own words. It is so sad, jason.

 

[RichardBurger]

You don't seem to understand that Jesus was showing the Jews that human beings can not keep the perfect laws of God. They need for God to do something to save them. And He did on the cross.

Why does Jesus give us so many commandments if we cannot keep them? Jesus also says nothing is impossible with God's help. Why does Jesus say if "you love me keep my commandments" if we cannot keep them?

You seem to be misusing the Scriptures.

If you are going to start with the accusations then I wil not continue to respond.

Since you are proclaiming that others must keep Jesus' commandment I bet that means you think you are keeping them. And yet you could not list them as I asked. It seems to me that since you proclaim we must keep His commandments you must think you are. What do you really see in the mirror?

 

[shad]

Since you are proclaiming that others must keep Jesus' commandment I bet that means you think you are keeping them. And yet you could not list them as I asked. It seems to me that since you proclaim we must keep His commandments you must think you are. What do you really see in the mirror?

Why the personal attack? I am only talking about what Jesus says. Jesus says "if you love Me keep My commandments" He also says "anything is possible with God".

 

[Guest]

Why the personal attack?

Now that is irony....

 

[RichardBurger]

One thing that is obvious is the fact that sinful flesh can never be made perfect. We are not made perfect in the flesh by the actions of the flesh. Galatians 3:1-3 says so.

Galatians 3:1-3
Justification by Faith (cf. Romans 4) 3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

When reading Romans 7 we see that Paul never says he will no longer sin in the flesh. Verse 25 says that Paul's flesh Will follow the law of sin.

Romans 7:22-25
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

When reading the above we must remember that we are only righteous before God in the spirit, not the flesh. In verse 25 we also see that Jesus has already delivered those that have been born again in the spirit. Their sinful flesh can not condemn them.

 

[jasoncran]

here is what you said:

jasoncran wrote:
because shad, we dont have the power, if you read my post you would see that.

You seem to be saying Jesus is lying. Jesus says nothing is impossible with God. You have been making excuses one after another to deny Jesus' own words. It is so sad, jason.

because shad, you make it sound like this. i pray and in that second its done. when for me with the love of men in a sexual nature that occured, but it doenst happen for us all at once.
God lets us struggle with sin and i dont know why.

i only know what sin i have had to fight daily and need strength to overcome.
for me porn was the hardest to overcome.far more then the lusting of male organs and body parts.

 

[shad]

i only know what sin i have had to fight daily and need strength to overcome.
for me porn was the hardest to overcome.far more then the lusting of male organs and body parts.

Good for you that you overcame.

 

[RichardBurger]

here is what you said:

jasoncran wrote:
because shad, we dont have the power, if you read my post you would see that.

You seem to be saying Jesus is lying. Jesus says nothing is impossible with God. You have been making excuses one after another to deny Jesus' own words. It is so sad, jason.

because shad, you make it sound like this. i pray and in that second its done. when for me with the love of men in a sexual nature that occured, but it doenst happen for us all at once.
God lets us struggle with sin and i dont know why.

i only know what sin i have had to fight daily and need strength to overcome.
for me porn was the hardest to overcome.far more then the lusting of male organs and body parts.

Why do Christians struggle with their sins of the flesh? Don't they have confidence that Jesus' blood has already paid for their sins of the flesh? Don't they have faith, trust, and confidence the blood of Jesus pays for their sins? Seems to me that if a person has to overcome sins of the flesh by his/her choice then it is the same situation as being under the Jewish Law.

No child of God wants to sin in the flesh. But they do just like Paul said he did in Romans 7. But the child of God is confident that God has made a way for those, who live in sinful flesh, to be saved and it isn't by their power to make a choice not to sin. If it is then there is no difference living under the law or under grace.

 

[shad]

Why do Christians struggle with their sins of the flesh? Don't they have confidence that Jesus' blood has already paid for their sins of the flesh? Don't they have faith, trust, and confidence the blood of Jesus pays for their sins? Seems to me that if a person has to overcome sins of the flesh by his/her choice then it is the same situation as being under the Jewish Law.

It seems that you are saying Christians dont have to overcome their sins and weaknesses. This is devil's doctrine. Jesus says over and over to be faithful to Him until the end. Faithful does not mean doing nothing.

No child of God wants to sin in the flesh. But they do just like Paul said he did in Romans 7. But the child of God is confident that God has made a way for those, who live in sinful flesh, to be saved and it isn't by their power to make a choice not to sin. If it is then there is no difference living under the law or under grace.

Paul did not live in sin. Of course we all have to struggle to overcome our sins and weaknesses because we live in satan's world. That's why Jesus says with God anything is possible. You are spreading lies about Christianity. Jesus did not die so we can live in hypocrisy.

 

[RichardBurger]

Why do Christians struggle with their sins of the flesh? Don't they have confidence that Jesus' blood has already paid for their sins of the flesh? Don't they have faith, trust, and confidence the blood of Jesus pays for their sins? Seems to me that if a person has to overcome sins of the flesh by his/her choice then it is the same situation as being under the Jewish Law.

It seems that you are saying Christians dont have to overcome their sins and weaknesses. This is devil's doctrine. Jesus says over and over to be faithful to Him until the end. Faithful does not mean doing nothing.

No child of God wants to sin in the flesh. But they do just like Paul said he did in Romans 7. But the child of God is confident that God has made a way for those, who live in sinful flesh, to be saved and it isn't by their power to make a choice not to sin. If it is then there is no difference living under the law or under grace.

Paul did not live in sin. Of course we all have to struggle to overcome our sins and weaknesses because we live in satan's world. That's why Jesus says with God anything is possible. You are spreading lies about Christianity. Jesus did not die so we can live in hypocrisy.

So Paul did not live in sin, Where did you get that? He said that with the flesh he followed the law of sin in Romans 7.

So, in your opinion, overcoming sins of the flesh is a work of man. Jesus did not overcome the world and it's sin for us , we must do it ourselves. A very religious idea.

You are on here telling everyone that they must keep Jesus' commandments and yet you are accusing me of teaching the devil's doctrine. Thanks for all the love you are showing for me but remember it shows you don't follow Jesus commandments either.

But I don't worry about the things you say about me. I am sure they said the same things about Paul.

 

[francisdesales]

Why do Christians struggle with their sins of the flesh? Don't they have confidence that Jesus' blood has already paid for their sins of the flesh? Don't they have faith, trust, and confidence the blood of Jesus pays for their sins? Seems to me that if a person has to overcome sins of the flesh by his/her choice then it is the same situation as being under the Jewish Law.

Salvation is conditional - but it is not attained by our actions ALONE. Paul notes that it is God who moves our wills to do good (Phil 2:12), WHILE noting we are to work out that salvation. Thus, salvation is a synergistic act, something that God inspires and enables me to do - but I must also allow God to work within me. We know by experience that God has given us the ability to reject that love He provides to us.


Regards

 

[RichardBurger]

Why do Christians struggle with their sins of the flesh? Don't they have confidence that Jesus' blood has already paid for their sins of the flesh? Don't they have faith, trust, and confidence the blood of Jesus pays for their sins? Seems to me that if a person has to overcome sins of the flesh by his/her choice then it is the same situation as being under the Jewish Law.

Salvation is conditional - but it is not attained by our actions ALONE. Paul notes that it is God who moves our wills to do good (Phil 2:12), WHILE noting we are to work out that salvation. Thus, salvation is a synergistic act, something that God inspires and enables me to do - but I must also allow God to work within me. We know by experience that God has given us the ability to reject that love He provides to us.


Regards

If salvation is conditional on the flesh keeping commandments then I am afraid no one can be saved. Or is it that you believe you can keep laws and commandments?

Heb 7:18-22 (NKJ)
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

The law and commandments made no one perfect because no one can keep them. That seems to be the weakness of the flesh. Thank God that He has made a way for those in sinful flesh to be seen as righteous before God.

For those that think you are seen as righteous before God because you think you keep His commandement to love other I wish to say this; If you love others because you are commanded to love them then all you are doing is loving your self. Surely it can be seen that a man can not command his wife to love him nor the wife command her husband to love her. This is common sense.

I am working out my salvation. Not by not sinning but by keeping my faith, trust, confidence and hope squarely on the work of Jesus on the cross while all the time religious people are telling me I am to place my faith, trust, confidence and hope in my ability to stop sinning in the flesh.

 

[francisdesales]

Salvation is conditional - but it is not attained by our actions ALONE. Paul notes that it is God who moves our wills to do good (Phil 2:12), WHILE noting we are to work out that salvation. Thus, salvation is a synergistic act, something that God inspires and enables me to do - but I must also allow God to work within me. We know by experience that God has given us the ability to reject that love He provides to us.

If salvation is conditional on the flesh keeping commandments then I am afraid no one can be saved. Or is it that you believe you can keep laws and commandments?

Richard, I didn't say that at all. Please note the one verse I did cite and allude to has GOD MOVING ME AND MY WILL. Not my own flesh. Synergy is a cooperation, at some level, between myself as a transformed Christian, and God's graces within me. We, as Christians, are expected to cooperate with what God is doing within us. It is in THIS way that we "work out our salvation", because it is not easy to die to self and let Christ become more manifest through our Spirit-inspired actions.

Regards

 

[RichardBurger]

Salvation is conditional - but it is not attained by our actions ALONE. Paul notes that it is God who moves our wills to do good (Phil 2:12), WHILE noting we are to work out that salvation. Thus, salvation is a synergistic act, something that God inspires and enables me to do - but I must also allow God to work within me. We know by experience that God has given us the ability to reject that love He provides to us.

If salvation is conditional on the flesh keeping commandments then I am afraid no one can be saved. Or is it that you believe you can keep laws and commandments?

Richard, I didn't say that at all. Please note the one verse I did cite and allude to has GOD MOVING ME AND MY WILL. Not my own flesh. Synergy is a cooperation, at some level, between myself as a transformed Christian, and God's graces within me. We, as Christians, are expected to cooperate with what God is doing within us. It is in THIS way that we "work out our salvation", because it is not easy to die to self and let Christ become more manifest through our Spirit-inspired actions.

Regards

I have already said how I am working out my salvation and it isn't by my works.
I am working out my salvation. Not by not sinning but by keeping my faith, trust, confidence and hope squarely on the work of Jesus on the cross while all the time religious people are telling me I am to place my faith, trust, confidence and hope in my ability to stop sinning in the flesh. I am fulfilling John 3:16-18

The only thing that condemns in this age of God's grace is the sin of not believing in Jesus (John 3:16-18). That means in His work on the cross.

Since you seem to be saying you are doing things in the flesh to work out your savaltion does that mean you are making yourself perfect by the deeds of the flesh?

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

I think my way of working out my salvation is closer to the truth.

Your way sets up a system where some are closer to God by their works; by being able to stop sinning in the flesh. Under your way a person can decieve themselve into thinking they no longer sin in the flesh.That is foolish since no one can keep laws and commadments.

I am a sinner in the flesh and always will be. I thank God always for His love for me, and others, that caused Him to do all the work of saving my soul on the cross. He knew I could not do it.