John Calvin's Heretical Teaching

[brightfame52]

I don't know BF.
Maybe there's a misunderstanding??

Please answer:

DOES GOD LOVE THE WHOLE WORLD, MEANING EVERYONE IN IT,
OR DOES HE JUST LOVE THE PERSONS HE CHOSE FOR SALVATION?

I'd appreciate it.

Please refrain from posting in this forum.

 

[JLB]

Please refrain from posting in this forum.

Please answer:

DOES GOD LOVE THE WHOLE WORLD, MEANING EVERYONE IN IT,
OR DOES HE JUST LOVE THE PERSONS HE CHOSE FOR SALVATION?

 

[brightfame52]

It’s a question of understanding what hate means in the context of the passage.

It means hate. What does Love mean ?

Please answer:

DOES GOD LOVE THE WHOLE WORLD, MEANING EVERYONE IN IT,
OR DOES HE JUST LOVE THE PERSONS HE CHOSE FOR SALVATION?

No, God doesnt Love but hated Esau and hates all the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5 so you are projecting falsehood.

 

[JLB]

It means hate. What does Love mean ?

No, God doesnt Love but hated Esau and hates all the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5 so you are projecting falsehood.

The scriptures say He loves the world and desires all men to be saved.


Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

 

[brightfame52]

The scriptures say He loves the world and desires all men to be saved.


Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Does God love the workers of iniquity who are part of the world of the humn race Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

 

[brightfame52]

The scriptures say He loves the world and desires all men to be saved.


Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Those are in regards to Gods Elect or Christs Body the Church

 

[JLB]

No, God doesnt Love but hated Esau

What iniquity did Esau commit?

 

[JLB]

Those are in regards to Gods Elect or Christs Body the Church

That is not what the scripture says.

You added your own words to the scripture in order to change the meaning of what the scripture so plainly states in the New Testament.


Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

 

[brightfame52]

What iniquity did Esau commit?

Not relevant all are sinners. God loves some sinners and He hates some sinners.

 

[brightfame52]

That is not what the scripture says.

You added your own words to the scripture in order to change the meaning of what the scripture so plainly states in the New Testament.


Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Applies to the elect, the Church

 

[atpollard]

John 3:16 (I didn't read how SS understands it) is understood by all Christianity to mean that God so loved EVERYONE He created that He gave EVERYONE the opportunity to be saved IF they wanted to be.

The grandfather of Montezuma wanted to be saved from the need to perform Human Sacrifice to appease the Aztec snake god, but the GOSPEL of Christ did not arrive in the Americas until after he died.

Was he saved without Christ? (Making the cross unnecessary).
Did EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION really have the same opportunity?

• Was his opportunity the same as Saul/Paul?
• Billy Graham?

Sorry, but REALITY contradicts the FANTASY that you claim every christian (except Reformed who read the Bible and believe what God said) believes. Believing what is contrary to reality is called “delusional“.

who said all these things?:

• ”Many are called, but few are chosen”
• ”the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it”
• ”the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it”
• ”because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven”

I agree that EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has the opportunity to be saved “IF they WANT to be” … the Blood of Christ is SUFFICIENT to save everyone that has ever and will ever live, however MANKIND does not WANT to be saved [John 3:19-20 "And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed.”] therefore, the Blood of Christ is only EFFECTIVE for “whosoever believes” … and it is GOD that determines “whosoever believes” by DRAWING to Christ [John 6:44-45 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”] and through His GIFT [Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”].

let God be true but every man a liar - Romans 3:4

 

[JLB]

Not relevant all are sinners. God loves some sinners and He hates some sinners.

Very relevant.

What iniquity did Esau commit that caused God to hate him?


The context is about God preferring a specific person for His purpose, not for salvation.


The context is about election according to purpose not election according to salvation.

• that the purpose of God according to election

And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), Romans 9:10-11

 

[brightfame52]

Very relevant.

What iniquity did Esau commit that caused God to hate him?


The context is about God preferring a specific person for His purpose, not for salvation.


The context is about election according to purpose not election according to salvation.

• that the purpose of God according to election

And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), Romans 9:10-11

Not relevant all are sinners, God has chosen to Love some of them and chosen to hate some of them, His Sovereign Choice

 

[JLB]

Not relevant all are sinners, God has chosen to Love some of them and chosen to hate some of them, His Sovereign Choice

Those are your words, not scripture.



New Testament scripture is indeed relevant.

The New Testament teaches us that God loves the world and desires all men to be saved.


Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

 

[brightfame52]

Those are your words, not scripture.



New Testament scripture is indeed relevant.

The New Testament teaches us that God loves the world and desires all men to be saved.


Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

God loves some sinners like the elect Rom 5:6-8 and He hates, despises the Non elect reprobate Ps 5:5. Now if you say God loves the reprobate world, which He hates, and will destroy, you promote a false gospel.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jacob God Loved and Esau God hated, and you deny it, you are a scripture denier.

You are on record saying God hates workers of iniquity , but Loves Jacob.


"brightfame52 said:

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hate

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."


Write that down.
Jacob was a worker of iniquity , in his lies, deceit , his supplantation .
That's a YES or a NO ?
Now explain why God did not hate Jacob a worker of iniquity , as you claim God does ?
Unless you want to go ahead and admit that you have not a clue, being spiritually circumscribed in your understanding of God's ways ?

 

[brightfame52]

You are on record saying God hates workers of iniquity , but Loves Jacob.


"brightfame52 said:

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hate

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."


Write that down.
Jacob was a worker of iniquity , in his lies, deceit , his supplantation .
That's a YES or a NO ?
Now explain why God did not hate Jacob a worker of iniquity , as you claim God does ?
Unless you want to go ahead and admit that you have not a clue, being spiritually circumscribed in your understanding of God's ways ?

God hates some sinners and God loves some sinners. Jacob was and all whom He pictures are loved sinners and shall be saved from their sins Matt 1:21 but Esau and those whom he pictures are hated sinners and will be condemned into eternal hell for their sins, thats Gods business, will

 

[Fastfredy0]

Jesus Christ says that He Died for Judas!

Assuming that to be true, then Christ knowingly died in vain He died for a lost cause and His purpose took 2nd seat to the purpose of man. In other words, the all knowing God's purpose is subservient to man's (Judas') purpose; the Infinite God is obedient to the wishes of His creation, man (Judas). The Infinite God is not all powerful because the Father cannot save most of those He loves.

Aside: Now if God truly love Judas as He loves His elect He could have saved Judas. God could have seen to it that:
1) Judas was never born and therefore God's loved one would not have to spend eternity in hell or
2) God could have had Judas die before the age of accountability expired and then Judas could spend eternity in heaven

God loves the elect as He loves Christ (you in Me and I in You, yahda, yahda). So, given your interpretation you define the LOVE OF GOD for the majority of people as His watching over His loved one for eternity as they dwell in Hell. Gee, with a love like you define, who needs enemies. *giggle*

 

[Fastfredy0]

I agree that EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has the opportunity to be saved “IF they WANT to be”

???? You believe the 1482 North American Indian who died having never heard of Christ had "opportunity" to be saved ????
Maybe we define "Opportunity" differently. I know everyone without exception is without excuse (Rom. 1); but I wouldn't say that affords opportunity.

Opportunity:

• A favorable or advantageous circumstance or combination of circumstances.
• A chance for progress or advancement, as in a career.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Verse please!

(or is this another private revelation to only YOU … like the REAL MEANING of John 3:16?)
[John 10:14-15] [John 6:70]

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