John Calvin's Heretical Teaching

[SolaScriptura]

Assuming that to be true, then Christ knowingly died in vain He died for a lost cause and His purpose took 2nd seat to the purpose of man. In other words, the all knowing God's purpose is subservient to man's (Judas') purpose; the Infinite God is obedient to the wishes of His creation, man (Judas). The Infinite God is not all powerful because the Father cannot save most of those He loves.

Aside: Now if God truly love Judas as He loves His elect He could have saved Judas. God could have seen to it that:
1) Judas was never born and therefore God's loved one would not have to spend eternity in hell or
2) God could have had Judas die before the age of accountability expired and then Judas could spend eternity in heaven

God loves the elect as He loves Christ (you in Me and I in You, yahda, yahda). So, given your interpretation you define the LOVE OF GOD for the majority of people as His watching over His loved one for eternity as they dwell in Hell. Gee, with a love like you define, who needs enemies. *giggle*

Jesus Christ Shed His Blood for Judas

Jesus Christ Shed His Blood for Judas "And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” And he...

christianforums.net

 

[brightfame52]

atpollard

I agree that EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has the opportunity to be saved “IF they WANT to be” … the Blood of Christ is SUFFICIENT to save everyone that has ever and will ever live,

So you dont believe the Blood of Christ actually saved everyone it was shed for ? Yes or No But it gave an opportunity to become saved ? Is that a fair assessment of your words here ?

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus Christ Shed His Blood for Judas

Jesus Christ Shed His Blood for Judas "And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” And he...

christianforums.net

What about this explanation ?

Judas – Did He Partake of the Lord’s Supper?

The names of many characters recorded in the Old Testament often try God’s saints, who fear lest they should prove apostates, and be found destitute of the Spirit and image of Christ. Abel ha…

testallthings.com

 

[Consecrated Life]

Assuming that to be true, then Christ knowingly died in vain He died for a lost cause and His purpose took 2nd seat to the purpose of man. In other words, the all knowing God's purpose is subservient to man's (Judas') purpose; the Infinite God is obedient to the wishes of His creation, man (Judas). The Infinite God is not all powerful because the Father cannot save most of those He loves.

Aside: Now if God truly love Judas as He loves His elect He could have saved Judas. God could have seen to it that:
1) Judas was never born and therefore God's loved one would not have to spend eternity in hell or
2) God could have had Judas die before the age of accountability expired and then Judas could spend eternity in heaven

God loves the elect as He loves Christ (you in Me and I in You, yahda, yahda). So, given your interpretation you define the LOVE OF GOD for the majority of people as His watching over His loved one for eternity as they dwell in Hell. Gee, with a love like you define, who needs enemies. *giggle*

It was on Judas .
It was his responsibility to act.
Just as it is on me and you to turn from our sin and to Christ .
Jesus's last Words to Judas were Words of God beckoning Judas one last time to be saved , because even then it was not to late .
Judas failed to turn to Christ at the last chance Jesus gave him.
Jesus calling Judas "friend" speaks tot he fact that even as they were leading Him away to be crucified Jesus still loved Judas

Mat 26:50
And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

 

[GodsGrace]

The grandfather of Montezuma wanted to be saved from the need to perform Human Sacrifice to appease the Aztec snake god, but the GOSPEL of Christ did not arrive in the Americas until after he died.

Was he saved without Christ? (Making the cross unnecessary).
Did EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION really have the same opportunity?

• Was his opportunity the same as Saul/Paul?
• Billy Graham?

Ifyou believe that Christ died FOR EVERYONE then you'd find it easy tobelieve that the person stated above COULD have been saved. Itdepended on whether or not he believed and had faith in God.

Jesusis God.
Heexisted BEFORE He was incarnated.
ForGod time does not exist.
Jesusdied for all --- past, present and future.

Romans1:19
18Forthe wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness andunrighteousness of men who suppress the truth inunrighteousness,
19because thatwhich is known about God is evident within them; forGod made it evident to them.
20For sincethe creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal powerand divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood throughwhat has been made, sothat theyare without excuse.


The above states that all will be without excuse since God has been known throughout time, being understood through WHAT HAS BEEN MADE.
God was always available to those that would have trust and faith inHim.

Were the OT believers saved?
Jesushad not been sacrificed yet.

Men will be judged according to the light they had received.
Jesus will be the judge of ALL MEN, not only the regenrated.
Jesus died FOR ALL MEN, not for us only.


Romans2:14-15
13for itis notthe hearers of the Law who arejust before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14Forwhen Gentileswho do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law,these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15inthat theyshow the work of the Law written in their hearts, their consciencebearing witness andtheir thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16onthe day when, according to my gospel, Godwill judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Sorry, but REALITY contradicts the FANTASY that you claim every christian (except Reformed who read the Bible and believe what God said) believes. Believing what is contrary to reality is called “delusional“.

who said all these things?:

• ”Many are called, but few are chosen”
• ”the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it”
• ”the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it”
• ”because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven”

I agree that EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has the opportunity to be saved “IF they WANT to be” … the Blood of Christ is SUFFICIENT to save everyone that has ever and will ever live, however MANKIND does not WANT to be saved [John 3:19-20 "And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed.”] therefore, the Blood of Christ is only EFFECTIVE for “whosoever believes” … and it is GOD that determines “whosoever believes” by DRAWING to Christ [John 6:44-45 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”] and through His GIFT [Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”].

let God be true but every man a liar - Romans 3:4

I'm not replying to the above.
Discussion with calvinists quickly digresses to adhomin remarks and I do alway swonder why.

 

[SolaScriptura]

It was on Judas .
It was his responsibility to act.
Just as it is on me and you to turn from our sin and to Christ .
Jesus's last Words to Judas were Words of God beckoning Judas one last time to be saved , because even then it was not to late .
Judas failed to turn to Christ at the last chance Jesus gave him.
Jesus calling Judas "friend" speaks tot he fact that even as they were leading Him away to be crucified Jesus still loved Judas

Mat 26:50
And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

You cannot get away from the fact that Jesus says that was going to the cross to Die also for Judas. Regardless whether Judas went to hell. The Bible calls this FREE WILL

 

[Fastfredy0]

Nothing is more absurd than to imagine that anyone beloved of God can eternally perish or shall ever experience His everlasting vengeance.

When God loves a man, it is impossible for that man to be separated from Him (Romans 8:38 - 39).

The Bible declares rather plainly that God is angry at the wicked every day (Psalm 7:11).

The non-elect do not have faith and cannot please God (Hebrews 11:6) God cannot love those that do not please Him. In other words, God cannot love those He hates. To think otherwise is a ridiculous contradiction suggesting a lack of knowledge, intelligence and/or discernment.

 

[electedbyHim]

simply put, NONE of you so called "reformed" are HONEST enough to admit that Jesus' own words in John 3:16-18 is clear testimony to the FACT, that God LOVES THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE WITH A SAVING LOVE! John Calvin, who you guys CLAIM to follow, is HONEST enough to say that verse 16 refers to EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION! Can you be HONEST as Calvin was?

I posted a few pages back and refuted this.

But you refused to read it.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Nothing is more absurd than to imagine that anyone beloved of God can eternally perish or shall ever experience His everlasting vengeance.

When God loves a man, it is impossible for that man to be separated from Him (Romans 8:38 - 39).

The Bible declares rather plainly that God is angry at the wicked every day (Psalm 7:11).

The non-elect do not have faith and cannot please God (Hebrews 11:6) God cannot love those that do not please Him. In other words, God cannot love those He hates. To think otherwise is a ridiculous contradiction suggesting a lack of knowledge, intelligence and/or discernment.

You might think what God does is absurd. But you are WRONG

 

[SolaScriptura]

I posted a few pages back and refuted this.

But you refused to read it.

For God SO LOVES the Entire Human Race...

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” (3:16-17) The main purpose of the study, is to...

christianforums.net

 

[electedbyHim]

For God SO LOVES the Entire Human Race...

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” (3:16-17) The main purpose of the study, is to...

christianforums.net

You deflected to your own post.

Awesome.

 

[SolaScriptura]

You deflected to your own post.

Awesome.

no comment on my OP on John 3:16?

 

[electedbyHim]

no comment on my OP on John 3:16?

Deflection again.

You do understand that the "whosoevers" in John 3:16 are the elect of God right?

You just keep on dancing and dodging everyone's questions in this forum.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Fastfredy0]

You might think what God does is absurd. But you are WRONG

You missed the point of my post (which is not surprising).

Your contention that God loves evil men is absurd. Love is a "bond of unity" (Col. 1:14); yet you think God loves those that are evil, that God loves those who are in hell. That is ABSURD. God cannot love that which is polar opposite of God. God cannot love/favor evil doers ... yet you say God loves men who perform evil. This is ABSURD. God cannot love who He hates.
Deuteronomy 25:16 For everyone who does such things, everyone who acts unjustly [without personal integrity] is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God. .... yet you claim God loves those that REPULSE Him. Absurd, ridiculous.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Deflection again.

You do understand that the "whosoevers" in John 3:16 are the elect of God right?

You just keep on dancing and dodging everyone's questions in this forum.

Grace and peace to you.

I agree with John Calvin on this, as it is Biblical

“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life” (emphasis mine)

 

[SolaScriptura]

You missed the point of my post (which is not surprising).

Your contention that God loves evil men is absurd. Love is a "bond of unity" (Col. 1:14); yet you think God loves those that are evil, that God loves those who are in hell. That is ABSURD. God cannot love that which is polar opposite of God. God cannot love/favor evil doers ... yet you say God loves men who perform evil. This is ABSURD. God cannot love who He hates.
Deuteronomy 25:16 For everyone who does such things, everyone who acts unjustly [without personal integrity] is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God. .... yet you claim God loves those that REPULSE Him. Absurd, ridiculous.

As Jesus says in Luke's Gospel that He was going to the cross also for Judas, this can only be because Jesus LOVES Judas!

Your "reformed" theology is not only ABSURD, but very much UNBIBLICAL!

 

[GodsGrace]

Nothing is more absurd than to imagine that anyone beloved of God can eternally perish or shall ever experience His everlasting vengeance.

When God loves a man, it is impossible for that man to be separated from Him (Romans 8:38 - 39).

The Bible declares rather plainly that God is angry at the wicked every day (Psalm 7:11).

The non-elect do not have faith and cannot please God (Hebrews 11:6) God cannot love those that do not please Him. In other words, God cannot love those He hates. To think otherwise is a ridiculous contradiction suggesting a lack of knowledge, intelligence and/or discernment.

You should read Calvin....it would be helpful to you if you think your above post is correct.
No one will be sure of their salvation until their last day.

Then, if we doubt whether we are received into the protection of Christ,he obviates the doubt when he spontaneously offers himself as our Shepherd, and declaresthat we are of the number of his sheep if we hear his voice (John 10:3, 16). Let us, therefore,embrace Christ, who is kindly offered to us, and comes forth to meet us: he will number usamong his flock, and keep us within his fold. But anxiety arises as to our future state.232 For as Paul teaches, that those are called who were previously elected, so our Savior shows that many are called, but few chosen (Mt. 22:14).

Nay, even Paul himself dissuades us from security, when he says, “Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall,” (1 Cor. 10:12).And again, “Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Benot high-minded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he alsospare not thee,” (Rom. 11:20, 21). In fine, we are sufficiently taught by experience itself, thatcalling and faith are of little value without perseverance, which, however, is not the gift ofall.

. But it daily happens that those who seemed to belong to Christ revolt from him andfall away: Nay, in the very passage where he declares that none of those whom the Fatherhas given to him have perished, he excepts the son of perdition. This, indeed, is true; but itis equally true that such persons never adhered to Christ with that heartfelt confidence by which I say that the certainty of our election is established: “They went out from us,” says John, “but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would, no doubt, have continued with us,” (1 John 2:19). I deny not that they have signs of calling similar to those givento the elect; but I do not at all admit that they have that sure confirmation of election which I desire believers to seek from the word of the gospel.

The expression of our Savior, “Many are called, but few are chosen,” (Mt. 22:14), isalso very improperly interpreted (see Book 3, chap. 2, sec. 11, 12). There will be no ambiguity in it, if we attend to what our former remarks ought to have made clear—viz. that there are two species of calling: for there is an universal call, by which God, through the external preaching of the word, invites all men alike, even those for whom he designs the call to be a savor of death, and the ground of a severer condemnation. Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts. Sometimes,however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whomafterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness.

Source: John Calvin's Institutes
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraphs 6, 7, 8

 

[brightfame52]

I agree with John Calvin on this, as it is Biblical

“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life” (emphasis mine)

It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction.

You believe whose faith freed you from everlasting destruction ?

 

[jasonc]

Can we say with certainty that God did not place a finger on the scale?
Especially if someone had the NERVE to upset our perfect experiment by contaminating our sample by PRAYING FOR HIM!

So much that I was once SURE was one thing, later turned out to be something else when I learned information that I didn’t have back then. Now I am only CERTAIN about what GOD says … His track record is better than mine. Since you like Mark Twain quotes:

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

I laugh because I'm about to be 51,my dad is gone and at that age his dad was gone .and I was 27. I learned at about 25 that my parents and grandparents weren't so ignorant.

Dad could annoy me .at times I open my mouth and act then look in the mirror to make sure that wasn't dad .

 

[brightfame52]

Another scripture showing that the Lord God hardens mens heart Deut 2:30

30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the Lord thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.