Justification by Faith

[Nathan]

Later today I will give my testimony of how I was approached with the descision to choose sin over Christ.

It is my personal example, so I cannot say it is the same for everyone. I also choose to not deny Christ, so it still does not give an absolute as to why someone would go ahead and choose to.

 

[Cygnus]

The reason why the choose sin over Christ is unknown. Why does someone never choose to believe in Christ in the first place? Answer that question and you will have your answer for the other.

I don't think you can push your theology and not address the question. The question is why?
What you seem to be telling me is that your life experience....happenstance...determines if you get saved or not. I believe that to be unbiblical.

 

[Cygnus]

I have heard of it. I did not skip over it, I purposefully left it out. Those who turn from Christ will not stand before it. Your statement, that preceded the mention of it, negated the need to respond to it.

Those who turn from Christ will not be saved.

1st Cor 3 presents some of the details of the Bema Seat Judgement...
Part of the description says.....If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[Nathan]

I don't think you can push your theology and not address the question. The question is why?
What you seem to be telling me is that your life experience....happenstance...determines if you get saved or not. I believe that to be unbiblical.

I am addressing the question, you just do not like it. Why someone chooses sin over Christ is because they want to. It's not complicated, just unknown unless you are the one choosing.

What you think I am saying, and what I am truly saying, are not the same. What you described is unbiblical.

What 'determines' if one is saved or not is simply if they are righteous in Christ, or if they are righteous in their self.

 

[Nathan]

1st Cor 3 presents some of the details of the Bema Seat Judgement...
Part of the description says.....If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I know where it is described. That passage says nothing about someone who turns away from Christ being saved.

The foundation which the works will be tested on is Christ. Those who have turned from Christ will not be standing there having their works tested - they turned from the very foundation salvation is based on.

 

[Cygnus]

I am addressing the question, you just do not like it. Why someone chooses sin over Christ is because they want to. It's not complicated, just unknown unless you are the one choosing.

What you think I am saying, and what I am truly saying, are not the same. What you described is unbiblical.

What 'determines' if one is saved or not is simply if they are righteous in Christ, or if they are righteous in their self.

You read like your backpedaling. Why? I would suggest the real answer completely destroys your theology.
You would have us believe that if a christian, a true believer....runs into a convincing atheist professor at college who shows that christian that Jesus wasn't quite cracked up to being who He says he was...and the christian is duped by the professor and walks away from their faith....they become un-saved.

In this instance that christian salvation is based upon what a atheist professor convinced them of. The christian became lost. Now destined for hell....because they had an encounter with an atheist professor.

You teach happenstance salvation.

 

[Cygnus]

I know where it is described. That passage says nothing about someone who turns away from Christ being saved.

The foundation which the works will be tested on is Christ. Those who have turned from Christ will not be standing there having their works tested - they turned from the very foundation salvation is based on.

No works pretty much sums it up. All they have done in life is burnt up...yet they remained saved..as if through fire...by the skin of their teeth...barely saved if possible...BUT, never the less...still saved as the verse clearly indicates... because you can't be snatched out of Christ hands.

 

[Nathan]

You read like your backpedaling. Why? I would suggest the real answer completely destroys your theology.
You would have us believe that if a christian, a true believer....runs into a convincing atheist professor at college who shows that christian that Jesus wasn't quite cracked up to being who He says he was...and the christian is duped by the professor and walks away from their faith....they become un-saved.

In this instance that christian salvation is based upon what a atheist professor convinced them of. The christian became lost. Now destined for hell....because they had an encounter with an atheist professor.

You teach happenstance salvation.

False accuser. Why accuse someone? Why not just converse or not.

You are putting words into my posts, making them seem like something they are not.

Did the believer choose to deny the faith in accepting the faith of another? Is that happenstance? Did the professor climb into the heart of the believer and make them choose to leave Christ?

 

[Nathan]

No works pretty much sums it up. All they have done in life is burnt up...yet they remained saved..as if through fire...by the skin of their teeth...barely saved if possible...BUT, never the less...still saved as the verse clearly indicates... because you can't be snatched out of Christ hands.

The people described in that passage are believers in Christ. That passage does not describe people who deny Christ.

Your correct, we cannot be taken forcefully from Christ's hand. Praise God.

 

[Cygnus]

False accuser. Why accuse someone? Why not just converse or not.

You are putting words into my posts, making them seem like something they are not.

Did the believer choose to deny the faith in accepting the faith of another? Is that happenstance? Did the professor climb into the heart of the believer and make them choose to leave Christ?

I can sense from your lack of response you are running out of answers...which shows that it is true, once saved always saved.

You asked...."Did the professor climb into the heart of the believer and make them choose to leave Christ?" In a way, yes. The professor convinced the christian that Jesus was false. The Christian then based their decision upon what the professor said...and walked away from Jesus on their free will. You would then say the christian was lost. No longer saved.....simply because they had an encounter with a clever professor.

 

[Cygnus]

The people described in that passage are believers in Christ. That passage does not describe people who deny Christ.

The passage describes those that had no works....faith. What they did got burned up. Nothing left....YET THEY WERE SAVED.....and you would pronounce them as lost?

 

[Nathan]

I can sense from your lack of response you are running out of answers...which shows that it is true, once saved always saved.

You asked...."Did the professor climb into the heart of the believer and make them choose to leave Christ?" In a way, yes. The professor convinced the christian that Jesus was false. The Christian then based their decision upon what the professor said...and walked away from Jesus on their free will. You would then say the christian was lost. No longer saved.....simply because they had an encounter with a clever professor.

So do you believe someone can take someone's else's faith by force?

Your ways may fool some, but I know now who you are.

Because God is great I do believe that you do not have to remain where you are. A believers life is not one of putting others down, I hope you come to understand that.

 

[Nathan]

The passage describes those that had no works....faith. What they did got burned up. Nothing left....YET THEY WERE SAVED.....and you would pronounce them as lost?

No, I never said the ones in 1 Corinthians 3 are lost. I said that they are not said to have denied the faith and turn from Christ.

There is no reason to say that they are ones who have turned from Christ.

Those who turn from Christ will not be saved.

 

[Cygnus]

Your correct, we cannot be taken forcefully from Christ's hand. Praise God.

The verse is more than removing by force. It's about defending his sheep against all their enemies...

 

[Cygnus]

So do you believe someone can take someone's else's faith by force?

Your ways may fool some, but I know now who you are.

Because God is great I do believe that you do not have to remain where you are. A believers life is not one of putting others down, I hope you come to understand that.

You still refuse to answer the question.....why would one turn from Christ and deny Christ....and as you put it...lose their salvation?

As proven with the professor post...it's happenstance. If the christian never met the professor they would still be saved. The professor plucked the christian from the double protection of the Father and the Son.

 

[Cygnus]

No, I never said the ones in 1 Corinthians 3 are lost. I said that they are not said to have denied the faith and turn from Christ.

There is no reason to say that they are ones who have turned from Christ.

Those who turn from Christ will not be saved.

They have no or very little accumulation of lifetime works. If they didn't turn from Christ they would have a ton of works. But all of what they did got burnt up....YET THEY WERE SAVED.

 

[Cygnus]

Those who turn from Christ will not be saved.

Peter turned from Christ...denied Christ. 3 times....cock a doodle do.

Was Peter lost..destined for hell if he died that evening?

 

[Nathan]

Peter turned from Christ...denied Christ. 3 times....cock a doodle do.

Was Peter lost..destined for hell if he died that evening?

Peter did not turn to another faith.

There is a difference between sinning, and turning from Christ to another way of righteousness.

I've answered all your questions. What you choose is now up to you. I will not force you one way or another.

You can either believe in Christ for your righteousness and be saved, or you can believe in something you have done for your righteousness.

One choice will be salvation for you, the other choice will not be.

What do you choose?

 

[Nathan]

They have no or very little accumulation of lifetime works. If they didn't turn from Christ they would have a ton of works. But all of what they did got burnt up....YET THEY WERE SAVED.

No one who turns from Christ will be saved.

 

[Cygnus]

No one who turns from Christ will be saved.

Nathan, answer the question....you whole theology depends on it....why would one turn from Jesus and trust in another "faith"?

You say that is your requirement for losing salvation....so, tell us why one would turn.