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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.
- Thread starter glorydaz
- Start date
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savedbygrace57
Guest
It cannot be denied that Faith accompanies subjective salvation or conversion, nevertheless it is never the cause of why one is Justified before God, or why one has been freed from the penalty of their sins, neither is it never the cause of ones New Birth which is passive, whereas Faith or believing is active. The cause of one's Justification before God ultimately is the Eternal Purpose of God's Grace given in Christ Jesus,[2 Tim 1:9] premised on His shed blood Rom 3:
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
God the Father before the ages had Faith in the blood of His Son Rom 3:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
This was in the establishment of the everlasting covenant, where He [Christ] was made a surety [Heb 7:22] and promised to in time be made under the Law and shed His blood for the Sheep, so its the blood of the everlasting covenant Heb 13:20. And no, His blood was not actually shed before 33.ad, but because it would be,and the one who would was the Son of God, the Father Trusted His Son so much, He reckoned it already done. God the Father, because of His Faith in His Son, could give Grace to and Justify His elect, based on Trust in the Faithfulness of the Son, this is why OT Saints before the cross had their Justification and sins forgiven. David says with that spiritual knowledge Psalm 103:
10He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
God the Father before the ages had Faith in the blood of His Son Rom 3:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
This was in the establishment of the everlasting covenant, where He [Christ] was made a surety [Heb 7:22] and promised to in time be made under the Law and shed His blood for the Sheep, so its the blood of the everlasting covenant Heb 13:20. And no, His blood was not actually shed before 33.ad, but because it would be,and the one who would was the Son of God, the Father Trusted His Son so much, He reckoned it already done. God the Father, because of His Faith in His Son, could give Grace to and Justify His elect, based on Trust in the Faithfulness of the Son, this is why OT Saints before the cross had their Justification and sins forgiven. David says with that spiritual knowledge Psalm 103:
10He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
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Elijah674
Guest
Very Good so far! the records are not a done deal yet huh! This STILL is all being done by FAITH on our part until Christs Work of BEING OUR HIGHT PRIEST IS [FINISHED!]
And 'the FAITH' has to be tested as 'MATURELY' genuine on our part!
Eccl. 12:13-14--Elijah
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Faith is for the seed ! -
Rom 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed[National Israel], through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.[meaning that Abraham had a seed that was of Faith]
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Faith as I have been witnessing to, is nothing of man's, but the producing of Grace see [Acts 18:27] of which grace is limited to a promised seed.
Now see this also, because of Abraham's relation to this special seed, and to them alone, He is called the Heir of the world and the Father of Many Nations. In this connection, the Holy Ghost does that what is said to be unnatural, He employs the word World[kosmos] as it refers to His seed, the elect [seed of Abraham] within the World, Hence its not unnatural or to be ignored that God may use the word world and its many nations when He is speaking about the Church..
Rom 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed[National Israel], through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.[meaning that Abraham had a seed that was of Faith]
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Faith as I have been witnessing to, is nothing of man's, but the producing of Grace see [Acts 18:27] of which grace is limited to a promised seed.
Now see this also, because of Abraham's relation to this special seed, and to them alone, He is called the Heir of the world and the Father of Many Nations. In this connection, the Holy Ghost does that what is said to be unnatural, He employs the word World[kosmos] as it refers to His seed, the elect [seed of Abraham] within the World, Hence its not unnatural or to be ignored that God may use the word world and its many nations when He is speaking about the Church..
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Saving Faith, that is, Faith that is part of Salvation, is in the Heart of the Regenerated person. Justification of the elect before a Holy God is the criteria for Justification by Faith. Faith is not something God accepts for righteousness before Him, but thats what many believe because they do not understand verses like Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
However Faith and Righteousness must be understood as separate. Faith is the act of the person [believing] who has been made righteous by the obedience of one, Jesus Christ Rom 5:19b
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
This obedience is His death at the cross Phil 2:8 or His blood Rom 5:9..
Faith is the fruit of imparted righteousness, that righteousness which Jesus Christ provides for His Sheep Rom 5:17-19; 2 Cor 5:21. Righteousness is related to Faith, but to call it Faith is to get the issue confused. Faith is through the righteousness of God 2 Pet 1:
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Faith is caused by the impartation of Christ Righteousness, which is another way of saying Regeneration or New Birth by the Holy Spirit, and it becomes the means by which one embraces and understands Spiritual realties. Faith is directed to the righteousness of Christ, but its not the righteousness of Christ. A Person is declared righteous before God, not because of Faith, but because of the perfect righteousness of Christ.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
However Faith and Righteousness must be understood as separate. Faith is the act of the person [believing] who has been made righteous by the obedience of one, Jesus Christ Rom 5:19b
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
This obedience is His death at the cross Phil 2:8 or His blood Rom 5:9..
Faith is the fruit of imparted righteousness, that righteousness which Jesus Christ provides for His Sheep Rom 5:17-19; 2 Cor 5:21. Righteousness is related to Faith, but to call it Faith is to get the issue confused. Faith is through the righteousness of God 2 Pet 1:
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Faith is caused by the impartation of Christ Righteousness, which is another way of saying Regeneration or New Birth by the Holy Spirit, and it becomes the means by which one embraces and understands Spiritual realties. Faith is directed to the righteousness of Christ, but its not the righteousness of Christ. A Person is declared righteous before God, not because of Faith, but because of the perfect righteousness of Christ.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Faith is not alloted all men !
As we have seen earlier from 2 Pet 1:1 Faith is obtained or alloted to some through the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour.
Faith is not alloted all men without exception, for Paul writes of the Faith of God's elect Titus 1:1, and He writes that all men have not Faith 2 Thess 3:2. Now those who do have the Faith of God's elect are those who have been ordained to eternal life Acts 13:48. Those who were appointed to eternal life [which is Divine Election] are shut up to the Faith that shall be revealed Gal 3:23.
Everyone who has been given Faith through New Birth or the Sanctifying Work of the Holy Spirit 2 Thess 2:13, is shut up to the Faith [Christ] that is revealed.
As we have seen earlier from 2 Pet 1:1 Faith is obtained or alloted to some through the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour.
Faith is not alloted all men without exception, for Paul writes of the Faith of God's elect Titus 1:1, and He writes that all men have not Faith 2 Thess 3:2. Now those who do have the Faith of God's elect are those who have been ordained to eternal life Acts 13:48. Those who were appointed to eternal life [which is Divine Election] are shut up to the Faith that shall be revealed Gal 3:23.
Everyone who has been given Faith through New Birth or the Sanctifying Work of the Holy Spirit 2 Thess 2:13, is shut up to the Faith [Christ] that is revealed.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
God declares righteous, all for whom Christ has died for, because He paid the everlasting price for all their Transgressions, and for them made an end of sin Dan 9:24, now this righteous standing they have, is revealed to them through Faith Rom 1:
17For therein [Gospel vs 16] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
This is [Faith] the fruit of regeneration or new birth, which is the fruit of Christ's imparted righteousness, which is the fruit of His imputed righteousness, which is the fruit of His death. The objective Justification is made known [or revealed] in time to the regenerated sinner whereby then a conscious act of believing or trust occurs, this is in regards to all those who have been Justified before the Divine Justice by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9.
Justifying Faith before the consciousness of man is active, and it is manifested by the regenerated sinner coming to Christ, or believing on Him for salvation and righteousness Jn 6:37; Acts 16:31
17For therein [Gospel vs 16] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
This is [Faith] the fruit of regeneration or new birth, which is the fruit of Christ's imparted righteousness, which is the fruit of His imputed righteousness, which is the fruit of His death. The objective Justification is made known [or revealed] in time to the regenerated sinner whereby then a conscious act of believing or trust occurs, this is in regards to all those who have been Justified before the Divine Justice by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9.
Justifying Faith before the consciousness of man is active, and it is manifested by the regenerated sinner coming to Christ, or believing on Him for salvation and righteousness Jn 6:37; Acts 16:31
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Faith and Justification are different !
Now Faith and Justification are quite different; Christ imputed righteousness is the sole basis of an elect sinners acceptance and favor [Justification] before God, and God given Faith is the God given instrument by which one receives and rests in knowing they have the righteousness of God Rom 1:17
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
You see Justification is a sentence that is passed in the Mind of God from eternity and passed because of Jesus Christ in the Everlasting Covenant. He then became a surety for the elect's sins and His righteousness was theirs!
Faith is not before or first, its not the effective cause of Justification, Because God and not Faith Justifies Rom 4:5
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 8:33
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Grace is the moving cause and not Faith Titus 3:7
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
The substance of Justification is the Lord Jesus Christ. The relation of Faith to Justifying imputed righteousness in no way relates that Faith itself is that righteousness ! Christ is ! But Faith is the believing [ subjectively] what the Father has declared, its God the Father's declaration that gives assurance, not the instrument of Faith.
Faith enables one to receive God's Testimony, to believe God for that we naturally cannot see.. Faith must rest upon a Divine Testimony of what God says is True. God says those Christ died for, by His blood are Justified from all things, and His righteousness has been laid to our charge..
Now Faith and Justification are quite different; Christ imputed righteousness is the sole basis of an elect sinners acceptance and favor [Justification] before God, and God given Faith is the God given instrument by which one receives and rests in knowing they have the righteousness of God Rom 1:17
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
You see Justification is a sentence that is passed in the Mind of God from eternity and passed because of Jesus Christ in the Everlasting Covenant. He then became a surety for the elect's sins and His righteousness was theirs!
Faith is not before or first, its not the effective cause of Justification, Because God and not Faith Justifies Rom 4:5
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 8:33
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Grace is the moving cause and not Faith Titus 3:7
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
The substance of Justification is the Lord Jesus Christ. The relation of Faith to Justifying imputed righteousness in no way relates that Faith itself is that righteousness ! Christ is ! But Faith is the believing [ subjectively] what the Father has declared, its God the Father's declaration that gives assurance, not the instrument of Faith.
Faith enables one to receive God's Testimony, to believe God for that we naturally cannot see.. Faith must rest upon a Divine Testimony of what God says is True. God says those Christ died for, by His blood are Justified from all things, and His righteousness has been laid to our charge..
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Elijah674
Guest
Very Good so far! the records are not a done deal yet huh! This STILL is all being done by FAITH on our part until Christs Work of BEING OUR HIGHT PRIEST IS [FINISHED!]
And 'the FAITH' has to be tested as 'MATURELY' genuine on our part! Eccl. 12:13-14
--Elijah
As stated above, we do not know what tomorrow will bring. We might do as did Saul
in Acts 9:6 when he asked Christ what he was to do, and Christ told him what [HE MUST DO]. Yet, we did not know what Saul would do before this, neither did he, huh!
Most folks seem to have their personal self in good Rom. 8:1 JUSTIFIED shape they think? So, for the UNIVERSE ETERNAL DOCUMENTATION, God will give the FINAL TESTING (666) to prove their Heb. 12:4-8real worth as far as Rom. 8:14 LEADING OF THE HOLY GHOST Requires!
And does anyone know what their result of this testing will be? (Is Dan. 3:14-18 us?? Peter thought that it was he! Matt. 26:69-74) We only know by whatever faith that we now have. And there will be NO OTHER opportunity of confession after the death decree goes into effect. Rev. 22:11-12
--Elijah
And 'the FAITH' has to be tested as 'MATURELY' genuine on our part!
Eccl. 12:13-14--Elijah
As stated above, we do not know what tomorrow will bring. We might do as did Saul
in Acts 9:6 when he asked Christ what he was to do, and Christ told him what [HE MUST DO]. Yet, we did not know what Saul would do before this, neither did he, huh!
Most folks seem to have their personal self in good Rom. 8:1 JUSTIFIED shape they think? So, for the UNIVERSE ETERNAL DOCUMENTATION, God will give the FINAL TESTING (666) to prove their Heb. 12:4-8real worth as far as Rom. 8:14 LEADING OF THE HOLY GHOST Requires!
And does anyone know what their result of this testing will be? (Is Dan. 3:14-18 us?? Peter thought that it was he! Matt. 26:69-74) We only know by whatever faith that we now have. And there will be NO OTHER opportunity of confession after the death decree goes into effect. Rev. 22:11-12
--Elijah
Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 2,175
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In most cases the Greek word translated as faith "pistis" could be more accurately translated as "fidelity" or "faithfulness".
So the just will live because he is faithful. You can't live IN a belief. But you can live faithfully! Think about it!
Now the faith of Jesus Christ could be rendered...the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. He is faithful!!!
So we are justified through faithfulness to Jesus Christ. This is just like...the just (justified ones) will live in their faithfulness.
We must be faithful to be saved. We must be faithful unto death.
So the just will live because he is faithful. You can't live IN a belief. But you can live faithfully! Think about it!
Now the faith of Jesus Christ could be rendered...the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. He is faithful!!!
So we are justified through faithfulness to Jesus Christ. This is just like...the just (justified ones) will live in their faithfulness.
We must be faithful to be saved. We must be faithful unto death.
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Elijah674
Guest
In most cases the Greek word translated as faith "pistis" could be more accurately translated as "fidelity" or "faithfulness".
So the just will live because he is faithful. You can't live IN a belief. But you can live faithfully! Think about it!
Now the faith of Jesus Christ could be rendered...the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. He is faithful!!!
So we are justified through faithfulness to Jesus Christ. This is just like...the just (justified ones) will live in their faithfulness.
We must be faithful to be saved. We must be faithful unto death.
Bottom/line as you lastly state, that we must be faithful 'unto death'. Heb. 11:13 had these ones recorded as all dead in faith!
--Elijah
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Faith an effect of New Birth
New Birth or Regeneration is inseparable from it's effect, one of which is Faith [For Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22], now without New Birth, a Spiritual Renewal Titus 3:5, we cannot savingly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is so because the message of the cross, the gospel of His accomplishments, must be apprehended by a spiritual faith in order to be converted.
New Birth is God's act, particularly the Holy Spirit, but Faith or believing is the act of the regenerated person by the enablement of the Spirit of God Heb 13:21
21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
The parable of the sower and the different soils illustrate a good point about subjective Faith, believing to the saving of the soul Heb 10:39.
Now Matt 13:23; Mk 4:20; Lk 8:15, The good ground is a New Heart or a Regenerated Heart given as a Covenant Blessing Ezk 36:26. Now the message of the Gospel, the seed, sowed on such a Heart or Ground Understands, keeps it, and bears fruit [ Gal 5:22]. Now one cannot believe they are Justified, unless they are Justified. The regenerated heart heart cannot but believe the message of the gospel, for thats the end for which the New Heart was given, to receive the good news of salvation Eph 1:13
Back up in Heb 13:21. It states that God works in us that which is wellpleasing in His sight.
Now what is it that is wellpleasing in God's sight ? The word well pleasing is the greek word euarestos:
well pleasing, acceptable
Now the word please as in Heb 11:6
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
The word please here is out of the root word for well pleasing.
Its the word euaresteō:
to be well pleasing
2) to be well pleased with a thing
So, Faith that which is well pleasing in God's sight is worked in us by the blessings of the blood of the everlasting Covenant by being given a New Heart.
I don't believe it can be made more plainer that Faith that pleases God has to be worked in us or given by His Spirit !
New Birth or Regeneration is inseparable from it's effect, one of which is Faith [For Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22], now without New Birth, a Spiritual Renewal Titus 3:5, we cannot savingly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is so because the message of the cross, the gospel of His accomplishments, must be apprehended by a spiritual faith in order to be converted.
New Birth is God's act, particularly the Holy Spirit, but Faith or believing is the act of the regenerated person by the enablement of the Spirit of God Heb 13:21
21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
The parable of the sower and the different soils illustrate a good point about subjective Faith, believing to the saving of the soul Heb 10:39.
Now Matt 13:23; Mk 4:20; Lk 8:15, The good ground is a New Heart or a Regenerated Heart given as a Covenant Blessing Ezk 36:26. Now the message of the Gospel, the seed, sowed on such a Heart or Ground Understands, keeps it, and bears fruit [ Gal 5:22]. Now one cannot believe they are Justified, unless they are Justified. The regenerated heart heart cannot but believe the message of the gospel, for thats the end for which the New Heart was given, to receive the good news of salvation Eph 1:13
Back up in Heb 13:21. It states that God works in us that which is wellpleasing in His sight.
Now what is it that is wellpleasing in God's sight ? The word well pleasing is the greek word euarestos:
well pleasing, acceptable
Now the word please as in Heb 11:6
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
The word please here is out of the root word for well pleasing.
Its the word euaresteō:
to be well pleasing
2) to be well pleased with a thing
So, Faith that which is well pleasing in God's sight is worked in us by the blessings of the blood of the everlasting Covenant by being given a New Heart.
I don't believe it can be made more plainer that Faith that pleases God has to be worked in us or given by His Spirit !
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savedbygrace57
Guest
A Person is only Justified by Faith when he or she comes to realize that they had been Justified before God by the imputed Righteousness of Christ. This is not a Righteousness because of our act of Faith or believing, but Righteousness because of the Faith or Faithfulness of Jesus Christ, For He is made of God, The Righteousness of His People 1 Cor 1:30
30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
The Holy Ghost directs the born again one to Jesus Christ, Christ having satisfied, propitiated for them the just claims of God's Law against them, in keeping its precepts, and enduring its death penalty in their behalf. God given Faith embraces that accomplished Fact, they have been given to see that Christ is their Righteousness before God. Paul says Phil 3:9
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
This is a Revealed Righteousness Rom 1:16-17
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
The word revealed is the greek word apokalyptō:
to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown
Thats what the Gospel does for the called elect, it makes known to them what they did not know before, that they have a Righteousness given them, laid to their account by Jesus Christ..
30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
The Holy Ghost directs the born again one to Jesus Christ, Christ having satisfied, propitiated for them the just claims of God's Law against them, in keeping its precepts, and enduring its death penalty in their behalf. God given Faith embraces that accomplished Fact, they have been given to see that Christ is their Righteousness before God. Paul says Phil 3:9
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
This is a Revealed Righteousness Rom 1:16-17
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
The word revealed is the greek word apokalyptō:
to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown
Thats what the Gospel does for the called elect, it makes known to them what they did not know before, that they have a Righteousness given them, laid to their account by Jesus Christ..
Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 2,175
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So often I hear this explained as legalese....as if we are to just accept that somewhere in the cosmos some legality has been satisfied by our acceptance of a biblical fact. We then are to hold onto that belief as if our very salvation depended on it.
But this is not what Paul is talking about at all. Paul is talking of a living reality that changes the world. NOW!
If Christ is in you then you are dead to sin and alive to God. In this case you walk as Jesus walked without sin and show forth the righteousness of God because it is CHRIST living in you. The kingdom of God is in POWER not legalese! Of course this is only possible through a daily death (a continued putting down of the flesh nature).
One does not become seated in the heavenlies by reading a verse and remarking that you must be there too. We are to reckon ourselves as dead not reckon ourselves to have attained anything. There is a view from that heavenly place...a place not of this world. A walk in the light...that you can see! The armour of God is not figurative...it is an empowering cloak of light and love.
In short, we should be seeking the things spoken of in the bible and not just claim they are a reality somewhere and we somehow have them. Otherwise we are short-circuiting the gospel and remain much as we always were. But this frustrates the grace of God. The kingdom is not about beliefs but about actual experience and actual revolutionay changes. It is real. So we should continue the race to attain what we lack.
It is no wonder that we don't see the revolution of the gospel in our time. Why not? Many have made a hobby and a pretend world out of the kingdom and ask others to join in the fantasy. We should keep our distance from these.
I realize that this sounds a bit hard...but I am compelled to speak out on this matter. I don't mean to offend anyone.
Run so as to attain to the riches in the Lord!
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savedbygrace57
Guest
adu:
You quoted the entire post, do you understand what I stated ? Please explain what I meant to convey. You did not deal with any of the scriptures that i presented and the sense I put upon them..
You quoted the entire post, do you understand what I stated ? Please explain what I meant to convey. You did not deal with any of the scriptures that i presented and the sense I put upon them..
Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 2,175
- 2
When I read a post I seek to acsertain where the words are coming from. Are they coming from an experience of the testimony...or is it just a cautious re-iteration of what can be read by anyone in the bible...without that experience?
Let's look at this statement.
Here is the legalese I'm referring to. No one would seemingly challenge this carefully worded statement...or would they?
How do we embrace an accomplished fact?
"we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
Is this an accomplished fact that needs to be entered into our memories? Or is this something else? How is one made the righteousness of God? Do we blindly accept this without an understanding of it because it is written in the bible?Imagine if to pass a science exam all we had to do was accept the truth that E=MC2. Just accept it!
So the test would read...Do you accept that E=MC2?
Answer: Yes
Welcome to the scientific community?
Where's the understanding?
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Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 2,175
- 2
Here is an illustration of the difference between the biblical instruction and what I see nowadays.
Imagine a man looking for souvenirs comes across an antique store. He enters and sees a sword hanging on the wall. The shop owner says that this sword can be used to win many battles. Happily our tourist buys the sword and puts it on his wall, proudly showing all comers the sword that can win many battles.
Now imagine, rather, a warrior looking for a weapon happens into the same store and finds the sword.
Do you think he will hang it on his wall? Or will he actually use it for the purpose it was designed for?
So it is with the grace of God.
"Cursed be the one who does the LORD'S work negligently, And cursed be the one who restrains his sword from blood." Jer. 48:10
Imagine a man looking for souvenirs comes across an antique store. He enters and sees a sword hanging on the wall. The shop owner says that this sword can be used to win many battles. Happily our tourist buys the sword and puts it on his wall, proudly showing all comers the sword that can win many battles.
Now imagine, rather, a warrior looking for a weapon happens into the same store and finds the sword.
Do you think he will hang it on his wall? Or will he actually use it for the purpose it was designed for?
So it is with the grace of God.
"Cursed be the one who does the LORD'S work negligently, And cursed be the one who restrains his sword from blood." Jer. 48:10
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Gal 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Phil 3:6,9
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Now why am I introducing the law with Faith ? Because there is a big difference between Righteousness by Faith and Righteousness because of our Faith !
You see if one is made righteous before God because of their Faith, then they are made righteous out of the Law, mans act of Faith.
Righteousness out of the Law, and righteousness out of mans act of faith or believing are of the same kind or principal.
In other words, if one says they are Justified, made righteous before God because of their Faith, they may as well say, they are justified before God or made righteous because of their works or baptism or keeping the Law.
The word law is the greek word nomos and means :
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a) of any law whatsoever
1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God
a) by the observance of which is approved of God
2) a precept or injunction
3) the rule of action prescribed by reason
b) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love
d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT
To make it simple the Law or law is any command or injunction whatsoever. Its not limited to the law of moses.
Faith is described even by Christ as an act of law keeping along with mercy Here Matt 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Notice, these ought ye have done ! or to do or to perform.
So no question faith is a performance by us, something we do, in fact its the keeping of a command 1 Jn 3:23
23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ
Now remember what the definition of law nomos is a command !
So, those of you who insist that one is made righteous before God because of their Faith or that you are Justified before God because of your act of Faith or believing, you are in essence saying what the bible condemns, and that is you are Justified out of keeping the Law, and so doing and believing you are a debtor to keep the whole Law, for Christ died in vain for you Gal 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 5:3
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
This does not only apply to circumcision, that was just the issue there in Galatia, that some were being seduced into believing that their sanctification is not complete unless they keep the law and be circumcised, which if conformed to, would only show that they have not trusted in the Finish work of Christ for all of salvation, and something Else by them must be done.
So thats the underline principle, whenever we believe that something else by us must be done in order to have complete and final Justification before God, whether it be baptism, circumcision, yes even the act of believing, we have fallen from and frustrated the Grace of God, and seek salvation as it were by the works of the Law..
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Phil 3:6,9
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Now why am I introducing the law with Faith ? Because there is a big difference between Righteousness by Faith and Righteousness because of our Faith !
You see if one is made righteous before God because of their Faith, then they are made righteous out of the Law, mans act of Faith.
Righteousness out of the Law, and righteousness out of mans act of faith or believing are of the same kind or principal.
In other words, if one says they are Justified, made righteous before God because of their Faith, they may as well say, they are justified before God or made righteous because of their works or baptism or keeping the Law.
The word law is the greek word nomos and means :
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a) of any law whatsoever
1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God
a) by the observance of which is approved of God
2) a precept or injunction
3) the rule of action prescribed by reason
b) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love
d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT
To make it simple the Law or law is any command or injunction whatsoever. Its not limited to the law of moses.
Faith is described even by Christ as an act of law keeping along with mercy Here Matt 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Notice, these ought ye have done ! or to do or to perform.
So no question faith is a performance by us, something we do, in fact its the keeping of a command 1 Jn 3:23
23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ
Now remember what the definition of law nomos is a command !
So, those of you who insist that one is made righteous before God because of their Faith or that you are Justified before God because of your act of Faith or believing, you are in essence saying what the bible condemns, and that is you are Justified out of keeping the Law, and so doing and believing you are a debtor to keep the whole Law, for Christ died in vain for you Gal 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 5:3
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
This does not only apply to circumcision, that was just the issue there in Galatia, that some were being seduced into believing that their sanctification is not complete unless they keep the law and be circumcised, which if conformed to, would only show that they have not trusted in the Finish work of Christ for all of salvation, and something Else by them must be done.
So thats the underline principle, whenever we believe that something else by us must be done in order to have complete and final Justification before God, whether it be baptism, circumcision, yes even the act of believing, we have fallen from and frustrated the Grace of God, and seek salvation as it were by the works of the Law..
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Phil 3:8-9
8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
The True Believer like Paul here counts all their righteousness but dung, and have been given to see Christ as their sole righteousness provider. The True believers hope and righteousness is not their Faith neither is it their repentance, which are both given by the Spirit and Grace of God Phil 1:29 and Acts 5:31.
All their hope is in the doing, the dying of their Surety the Lord Jesus Christ, for it was He who answered all the claims of the Divine Justice against them. It was not their Faith or act of believing nor their repentance [ change of mind] that secured their eternal redemption and perfect righteous standing before God, yet those precious gifts of Grace are bestowed upon them because forgiveness and righteousness has been accomplished by their Surety.
Its by regenerating grace which produces the New Birth by the Spirit we are more than Thankful for those precious gifts [faith and repentance] but our trust is not in those gifts, but the giver of the Them, God through Jesus Christ our Lord, for in the giving of Him, He bestowed upon us all things for life and Salvation Rom 8:31-32
31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
The True Believer like Paul here counts all their righteousness but dung, and have been given to see Christ as their sole righteousness provider. The True believers hope and righteousness is not their Faith neither is it their repentance, which are both given by the Spirit and Grace of God Phil 1:29 and Acts 5:31.
All their hope is in the doing, the dying of their Surety the Lord Jesus Christ, for it was He who answered all the claims of the Divine Justice against them. It was not their Faith or act of believing nor their repentance [ change of mind] that secured their eternal redemption and perfect righteous standing before God, yet those precious gifts of Grace are bestowed upon them because forgiveness and righteousness has been accomplished by their Surety.
Its by regenerating grace which produces the New Birth by the Spirit we are more than Thankful for those precious gifts [faith and repentance] but our trust is not in those gifts, but the giver of the Them, God through Jesus Christ our Lord, for in the giving of Him, He bestowed upon us all things for life and Salvation Rom 8:31-32
31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Salvation Faith is a Spiritual Principle to the mind !
Heb 11:1
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 Pet 1:1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
I do not why the religionists of our day believe that Faith, regarding spiritual things, is something of the natural mind of man and when exercised on the word of God, they are rewarded with Life Eternal because of their Natural Faith, how absurd, and contrary to scripture.
In the Heb 11:1 reference, the writer having in the foregoing part of the letter has made a comparison and contrast between between the carnal and temporal dispensation of the OT, and the Spiritual anti typical economy appointed through Jesus Christ, and so comes to the 11 th Chapter to characterize that Faith by which these Spiritual realties are known and perceived and received in differentiation from our natural faculties, by which those carnal ceremonies were comprehended. He begins his narrative of Faith with the position set forth in the text, and then goes to show its power as manifested in the experiences of some of the OT Saints.
It does not matter if we understand the Faith here to be in special regard to the spiritual things of the Gospel [ 1 Cor 2:13-14] as compared to the carnal ordinances of the law of moses, or as merely that which was employed of the OT witnesses, or the position before us in the text itself, in either consideration, it is a spiritual principle in exercise, and different from our natural carnal belief, as is the Spiritual Truths of the Gospel [ 1 Cor 2:13-14; 2 Cor 3:6] The Gospel is of the Spirit Jn 6:63, its Truth is spirit and life, it contains spiritual things, and not things merely natural or moral, but it speaks of spiritual blessings Eph 1:3. These blessings and truths of the Gospel were different from the external observances under the law, which could be received by the natural judgments of the children of Israel from their parents. The Natural mind of the jews could receive these things, because their natural minds could be enlighten, however, the Knowledge of the Truths of the Gospel, which are spiritual, are not imparted to nor received into natural faculties of men, so Faith of a Spiritual nature must be given or obtained [2 Pet 1:1] to make these spiritual Truths a reality to the mind.
Heb 11:1
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 Pet 1:1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
I do not why the religionists of our day believe that Faith, regarding spiritual things, is something of the natural mind of man and when exercised on the word of God, they are rewarded with Life Eternal because of their Natural Faith, how absurd, and contrary to scripture.
In the Heb 11:1 reference, the writer having in the foregoing part of the letter has made a comparison and contrast between between the carnal and temporal dispensation of the OT, and the Spiritual anti typical economy appointed through Jesus Christ, and so comes to the 11 th Chapter to characterize that Faith by which these Spiritual realties are known and perceived and received in differentiation from our natural faculties, by which those carnal ceremonies were comprehended. He begins his narrative of Faith with the position set forth in the text, and then goes to show its power as manifested in the experiences of some of the OT Saints.
It does not matter if we understand the Faith here to be in special regard to the spiritual things of the Gospel [ 1 Cor 2:13-14] as compared to the carnal ordinances of the law of moses, or as merely that which was employed of the OT witnesses, or the position before us in the text itself, in either consideration, it is a spiritual principle in exercise, and different from our natural carnal belief, as is the Spiritual Truths of the Gospel [ 1 Cor 2:13-14; 2 Cor 3:6] The Gospel is of the Spirit Jn 6:63, its Truth is spirit and life, it contains spiritual things, and not things merely natural or moral, but it speaks of spiritual blessings Eph 1:3. These blessings and truths of the Gospel were different from the external observances under the law, which could be received by the natural judgments of the children of Israel from their parents. The Natural mind of the jews could receive these things, because their natural minds could be enlighten, however, the Knowledge of the Truths of the Gospel, which are spiritual, are not imparted to nor received into natural faculties of men, so Faith of a Spiritual nature must be given or obtained [2 Pet 1:1] to make these spiritual Truths a reality to the mind.