Living without sin ?

[JLB]

We must watch out for what we do, to maintain our place in the light.
Any failure to keep ourselves pure will show our repentance from sin was a lie to God.

The "body" is just the carrier of the mind, and has no power to do anything without the mind's compliance.
You mistakenly credit it with a mind, and power of its own.

As Romans 6:4-6 makes clear..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
I was killed, buried, and "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life".
I don't mind calling it a "two resurrection" doctrine at all, as that is exactly what scripture says.
But the final resurrection will provide us with a new, glorified vessel instead of the quickened from the dead old vessel we have now.

Col 2:9-13 also testify to this..."For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"
I thank God for His concise, clarifying word !

JLB:
Until then we spend time separated unto the Lord, praying in the Spirit, fasting, reading His word, and worshipping Him daily, being filled with His Spirit, so we can walk in victory over the sinful desires of our flesh.
How can skin and bones have desires?
How can that which has been reborn of God's seed have sinful desires?
I thank God for killing that which I once served, so I may serve only God almighty from here on till the death of the vessel I walk in.

Can you answer my question?


Why, does living in dominion over sin require a great deal of prayer, if our body has been changed and is now sinless, because it literally died at water baptism, and was literally resurrected when we came up from the water?




JLB

 

[JLB]

As Romans 6:4-6 makes clear..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Yes Romans 6:4-6 is clear and speaks to us with symbolic language.


Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Romans 6:4-6

• For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Paul says we “shall be” in the likeness of His resurrection.


“Shall be” refers to the future resurrection of the dead in Christ, which happens at his coming.


It’s clear their is one resurrection of the dead in Christ, and that happens on the last day, at His coming.


Then and only then we who are Christ’s will have sinless immortal bodies.


Your “two resurrection” theory is just not scriptural.


And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:40


Paul’s whole point of this dialog, using symbolic references to the death of our body culminates in verse 12, when he says therefore…


Therefore means “I said all that to emphasize my next point”…


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Paul wants us to consider ourselves dead to sin and alive to Christ; so that we set our mind on Christ and be led by His Spirit.


Why would Paul tell us not to let sin reign in our body if our body was made sinless at water baptism?






JLB

 

[Hopeful]

This is a blatantly, blatantly false statement.

I have reported you for this.

If we turn from something, a turn back shows there was no turn in the first place.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:

The cleansing allows our walk in the light to begin.

• By context “us” refers to those who walk in the light

Question:
Does the blood of Jesus cleanse from sin, those who walk in the light?

It cleansed us so we can walk in the light.

Yes or No ?

No.
It "has cleansed" those who walk in the light.

The goal of the “sinless perfection“ doctrine is to deceive people into thinking they are sinless and should never have to confess their sin to be forgiven, otherwise if they should sin, they were never really saved in the first place; their born again experience never really happened.
It weaves scripture together with false statements, to come up with a false doctrine that labels people as unsaved, because if they are not sinless.

Sorry you feel God was unsuccessful at conquering sin.
He was totally successful !
It is written..."For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:3-4)
...that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in US who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

Walk after the Spirit and partake in that victory !

 

[Hopeful]

Do you get hungry or thirty?

Yes, and so did Jesus.
But while fasting, I can put them in the position of subservience to the mind that worships God above all else.
Like I can put any other fleshly desire away.

Do you ever have sexual urges for your wife?

Not married.

Do you every have an ungodly desire?

No.
My flesh, with the vile affections and lusts were killed at my "immersion into Christ and into His death. (Gal 5:24)

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-14

You quote the scriptures, so do it and live.
By the grace of God, I have.

Here is a list of some of the sinful desires of the flesh —
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are:

adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries, and the like;

of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Thank God we can be free from all such wickedness now that we can be "in Christ".

 

[Hopeful]

Can you answer my question?
Why, does living in dominion over sin require a great deal of prayer, if our body has been changed and is now sinless, because it literally died at water baptism, and was literally resurrected when we came up from the water?
JLB

In order to keep growing in grace and knowledge.
To be closer to God than to the world.
To keep the word of God fresh in our minds.
The lazy die, but the diligent live forever.

Men do those things that satisfy them, and prayer is very satisfying to those whose Father is God.

 

[JLB]

I have reported you for this.

If we turn from something, a turn back shows there was no turn in the first place.

Calling peoples salvation a lie because they are not sinless is not acceptable behavior.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes Romans 6:4-6 is clear and speaks to us with symbolic language.

It is only symbolic to those who don't believe it is actual.
It was an actual event in my life, and so now I can walk after the Spirit instead of after the fleshly mind which is at war with Godliness.
Thanks be to God !

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Romans 6:4-6

• For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Paul says we “shall be” in the likeness of His resurrection.

Yep...do this (die with Christ) and expect that (resurrection with Christ) too.
As it is written, "For he that is dead is free from sin". (Rom 6:7)

“Shall be” refers to the future resurrection of the dead in Christ, which happens at his coming

I disagree.

It’s clear their is one resurrection of the dead in Christ, and that happens on the last day, at His coming.

The last resurrection, for sure is on the last day.

Then and only then we who are Christ’s will have sinless immortal bodies.

They will already have them since they were reborn from God's seed.

Your “two resurrection” theory is just not scriptural.

We disagree.
We are raised with Christ after our "immersion" into Him and into His death, burial, and we are raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
Perhaps the wording of Rom 6:5 is leading you to some wrong conclusion regarding "resurrection".
"Resurrection" v. "raised with Christ" ?

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:40
Paul’s whole point of this dialog, using symbolic references to the death of our body culminates in verse 12, when he says therefore…
Therefore means “I said all that to emphasize my next point”…
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12
Paul wants us to consider ourselves dead to sin and alive to Christ; so that we set our mind on Christ and be led by His Spirit.
Why would Paul tell us not to let sin reign in our body if our body was made sinless at water baptism?

So we can prove our repentance from sin was real, to the glory of God.
So we can manifest Christ in our everyday life.
So the name of Christ is not sullied by those professing Him.

 

[JLB]

In order to keep growing in grace and knowledge.
To be closer to God than to the world.
To keep the word of God fresh in our minds.
The lazy die, but the diligent live forever.

Men do those things that satisfy them, and prayer is very satisfying to those whose Father is God.

Thats an answer to a question I didnt ask.


Heres the question I asked.

Why, does living in dominion over sin (in our body) require a great deal of prayer,

 

[Hopeful]

Calling peoples salvation a lie because they are not sinless is not acceptable behavior.

Who did such a thing?
If they can work that out from the scriptures I use proving that sinlessness is possible, their love of God will provoke them towards salvation.
If it doesn't, their fate is in their own hands and is their own choice.

 

[JLB]

It is only symbolic to those who don't believe it is actual.

I showed the words Paul used to descibe the symbolic nature of his dialog... likeness.


In the likeness of His death.


We don't "literally" die at water baptism, nor are we literally ressurrected from the dead, when we emerge from the water.


The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at His coming, at the end of the age on the last day.

That's biblical.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Who did such a thing?

You did.


JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Thats an answer to a question I didnt ask.


Heres the question I asked.

Why, does living in dominion over sin (in our body) require a great deal of prayer,

Sorry, your tricky wording got me on the wrong track.
First of all, there is no sin in Christ, and we are in Christ too.
Thus our body's have no sin in/on them either.
Our dominion over sin allows us to continue walking in the light, and after the Spirit instead of after the fleshly mind.
To manifest that our repentance from sin was a lie to God, will result in a fall from that position in the light and will result in eternal condemnation.

Quit committing sin, and live forever !

 

[Hopeful]

I showed the words Paul used to descibe the symbolic nature of his dialog... likeness.
In the likeness of His death.
We don't "literally" die at water baptism, nor are we literally ressurrected from the dead, when we emerge from the water.
The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at His coming, at the end of the age on the last day
That's biblical.
JLB

Our interpretations disagree.

 

[JLB]

Sorry you feel God was unsuccessful at conquering sin

That's the last time you will twist my words and misrepresnt me in this thread.

 

[JLB]

Our interpretations disagree.

For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthinians 15:21-23


The ressurrection occurs at His coming.


Notice carefully it doesnt say the resurrection occurs at your water baptism.



JLB

 

[JLB]

First of all, there is no sin in Christ, and we are in Christ too.
Thus our body's have no sin in/on them either.

The scripture says we are "one spirit" with Christ.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


Our spirit is born again, not our physical body.




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthinians 15:21-23
The ressurrection occurs at His coming.

Agreed.

Notice carefully it doesnt say the resurrection occurs at your water baptism.
JLB

It is written..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead
by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."(Rom 6:4)
It just says we are also raised from the dead with Christ.
It isn't the final resurrection, but sure could be construed as a resurrection from the death of trespasses and sins.
Rom 6:5 says further..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"
I was killed with Him and raised from the dead with Him.
Thanks be to God.
And I have anther resurrection awaiting me.

 

[JLB]

It is written..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead
by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."(Rom 6:4)

Amen. We are to walk in the new life we have in Christ.

 

[JLB]

And I have anther resurrection awaiting me.

Amen.

 

[Bethel]

Just caught a little flak for posting about life without sin, but I have to wonder...isn't that what we are supposed to be doing?

Thats a great question.
So, i just wrote a thread for you, that answers it.

How to live the Holy Life

How do you live the holy life.? It could be stated that to say that we can't live a holy life, is to deny the power of Christ who lives in us. It can be stated that to teach that you can't live the holy life, is to offend God's Grace and contradict the Cross. There are plenty of forums and most...

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