Living without sin?

[ezrider]

That doesn't make any sense.
Non-sinners are not under any authority but God's.
Jesus did say no man can serve two masters.
You say otherwise.

You say "non-sinners" are not under any authority but God's, but what of the "sinners"? Are they not under God's authority too? Because you have a Law that gives you the knowledge of Sin, do you think it wise to assumes God's authority over such things? Beware, that comes with the original temptation!

Why do "non-sinners" keep bringing their "non-sins" back to the foot of the cross?


If you were dead to sin, then you would no longer see sin in others.

 

[Quantrill]

In one sense you are correct, but you are unaware that the death happens at our "immersion" into Christ's death. (Rom 6:3-7)

Then you agree the truth can free men from committing sin.
So how can he be a sinner "all the days of his life"?
Don't you think anybody adheres to the truth?

The death of our old man, of your old man, is real judicially through the death of Jesus Christ. It is never real experientially until our physical death on earth. Just like we are judicially glorified at this time through the work of Christ. (Rom. 8:30) But we are not experientially glorified yet. Do you see yourself as glorified right now? Apparently you do.

As Christians, we have newness of life. But, our old man is still with us. In our experiential walk of sanctification here and now, we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin (Rom. 6:11). We reckon it so, believe it so, "that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom. 6:6) We must 'reckon it so' because in our experience here the old man still lives.

That is why Paul said, 'might be destroyed'. (Rom. 6:6) It is a constant contention and warfare in our walk.

Man is a sinner all the days of his life here because that which we are in Adam, is still with us. Our spirit was born-again. Our body was not. It is full of sin and still under condemnation. That is why we Christians still die. We have eternal life, but our body still must die.

Quantrill

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

The death of our old man, of your old man, is real judicially through the death of Jesus Christ. It is never real experientially until our physical death on earth. Just like we are judicially glorified at this time through the work of Christ. (Rom. 8:30) But we are not experientially glorified yet. Do you see yourself as glorified right now? Apparently you do.

As Christians, we have newness of life. But, our old man is still with us. In our experiential walk of sanctification here and now, we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin (Rom. 6:11). We reckon it so, believe it so, "that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom. 6:6) We must 'reckon it so' because in our experience here the old man still lives.

That is why Paul said, 'might be destroyed'. (Rom. 6:6) It is a constant contention and warfare in our walk.

Man is a sinner all the days of his life here because that which we are in Adam, is still with us. Our spirit was born-again. Our body was not. It is full of sin and still under condemnation. That is why we Christians still die. We have eternal life, but our body still must die.

Quantrill

Quantrill my brother
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE your posting I quoted above.
THANK YOU FOR THAT !!

In much love in Christ
Seasoned by Grace

 

[for_his_glory]

Name one sin your body can do without your mind's knowledge.
You are confusing the demise of a vessel with the corrupting of the mind by sin.
The body is just the carrier of your mind, and can't be credited with either right or wrong.
To say one can't be free of sin just because we are wrapped in skin and bones is ludicrous.
It also accuses Jesus of sin.

Yes, thanks be to God, and the gift of permanent repentance from sin, and rebirth from Gods seed and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the bible, and scriptures like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
You won't find any sinning disciples of the Lord who committed sin after the resurrection of Christ.
The sinners were still serving sin, and not God.

Do you even understand what unwillingly sin means? We do not go around planning to sin as we think it out and plann it in our mind to do so, it just happens sometimes, but yet forgiven when we humbly confess and repent of it. Just like I showed you with scripture a while back how the Prophets and Disciples sinned at times even after they confessed faith in God in the OT and faith in Christ in the NT after being transformed on the day of Pentecost. David is a good OT example who had a heart for the Lord and Peter and Paul good examples in the NT who sinned at times. You need to read again what Paul wrote about himself after his conversion as he had a problem with sinning in the flesh that overtook him at times like all of us, Romans 7:7-25.

By you saying you never sin would make you above the Prophets and Disciples being coequal with Christ who had no sin. None of us wilfully sins like we plan it, but unknowingly will sin, mostly with the words that come out of our mouths at times.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

for_his_glory my sister in Christ.
1 John 1:8–10: “ If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (Christians - The bible wasn't written to non-believers."
(1 Cor. 2:14) "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

God actively hides His message from disbelievers.

You remember that the Lord said, (Matthew 7:6), "Do not give what is holy to the dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Well, Jesus is no hypocrite; He practices what He preaches. Christ revealed the nature and will and plan of God to those who would listen, and with the same words He concealed God from those who would not.

In the kindness and love in Christ
Seasoned by Grace

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful
Once again my loving brother.
Here's what Paul had to say to those not giving heed to the completeness of God's truth
1st Cor. 1:3, "Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ. 2, I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready, 3for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly?"
You need to get past the "REVOLVING DOOR" of discussing these topics that continually get hashed over and re-packaged, and regurgitated in churches for hundreds of years, and on forums like this, and argued about for eons of time, and settle the answer for this in your own heart, not as it seems, that you are trying to prove what you know, because it's such a basic topic that should already be confirmed in everyone's heart, and then move on to things that God will lead you too in the MEAT of the word when you are ready for solid food, as Paul said above.
The "milk' of the word is an infinitely small portion of God's complete truth, and the "MEAT" is where you'll find the depth and fulness and completeness of many many topics never discussed in any church or any Bible college.
It's where the excitement and passion are TRULY born, and point us to a life in Christ we could have never imagined on our own.
To find the meat of the word by the leading of the Holy Spirit is where God truly raises the bar on preparing us for His Fabulous and glorious kingdom, and for the Rapture to come.
You have no idea my dear friend what is waiting for you once you get past all these shallow, repackaged, and rediscussed ad-nauseum topics.
It's not that God's word is "Nauseating", it how the topics never change and people never get on to the depths of God's word that is waiting for all of us, and to me, it's "nauseating all the arguing, and disagreements are repeated over and over to no ones benefit and to no end.
Just that revolving door once again, of repeating over and over the same things, as Paul talked about above, and losing out on all the depth of wisdom and knowledge God has waiting for us all.
If you think your the first one to come here and say the same things with the same attitude, you're sadly mistaken, because this topic you're so passionateabout has already been beaten to death over and over, , and is just once again being rehashed, as in a long line of those who have come before you.
Give it up and move on to something that will help you grow and be stronger in Christ.
My wonderful dear brother in Christ.
I look forward to getting to know you better. I am a very easy-going, very loving kind person that loves people and never gets angry.
I believe with all my heart Galatians 5:14, " The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
And also 1st Cor. 13:1-2, " If I speak with the tongues of mankind and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing."
Also, 1st Cor. 13:13, "But now faith, hope, and love remain, these three; but THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE."
Another words, God says knowledge is NOTHING WITHOUT LOVE. So I have learned at the feet of God to love all mankind beyond any knowledge I may have, or the knowledge others may express, for in God's words knowledge has no worth without Kind and Godly love.
So, I will always speak to you and with you in the kindest Godly love possible.
God bless you my brother and in all honesty and love, I most assuredly pray that you seek God with all your heart for the depth of wisdom and the meat of the word he has waiting for you.
My name is Seasoned by Grace

If discussions relating to the doctrine which is according to Godliness don't suit you, don't read them.
There are new readers here everyday, it seems, so just let them decide, as you have, if they can grow from them or not.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Hopeful]

Do you even understand what unwillingly sin means? We do not go around planning to sin as we think it out and plann it in our mind to do so, it just happens sometimes, but yet forgiven when we humbly confess and repent of it. Just like I showed you with scripture a while back how the Prophets and Disciples sinned at times even after they confessed faith in God in the OT and faith in Christ in the NT after being transformed on the day of Pentecost. David is a good OT example who had a heart for the Lord and Peter and Paul good examples in the NT who sinned at times. You need to read again what Paul wrote about himself after his conversion as he had a problem with sinning in the flesh that overtook him at times like all of us, Romans 7:7-25.

By you saying you never sin would make you above the Prophets and Disciples being coequal with Christ who had no sin. None of us wilfully sins like we plan it, but unknowingly will sin, mostly with the words that come out of our mouths at times.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

All sin is "willing", as it generates from a mind that weighs the consequences beforehand.
As James wrote, "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
No temptation...no sin.
No lust...no sin.
No enticement...no sin.
No conception...no sin.
It is kinda hard to say it is accidental sin, after going through so many steps before sinning.

Besides, those who "are Christ's", (Gal 5:24), have crucified their past lusts, so lust isn't even a facet of Christian life.

As for your Rom 7 citations...verse 23 was answered in Rom 8:2.
Verse 24 was answered in Rom 6:6.
Some parts of Rom. 7 are recollections from Paul's pre-conversion days under the Law.

 

[Truthfrees]

If discussions relating to the doctrine which is according to Godliness don't suit you, don't read them.
There are new readers here everyday, it seems, so just let them decide, as you have, if they can grow from them or not.

Thanks for your opinion.

amen - there are those who are interested in what you are sharing and those who are opposed

keep speaking for the benefit of those who are interested

that way what you have to say can be a blessing to many

 

[Hopeful]

The death of our old man, of your old man, is real judicially through the death of Jesus Christ. It is never real experientially until our physical death on earth.

Sorry you feel that way, as it guarantees continued sin in your life.

Just like we are judicially glorified at this time through the work of Christ. (Rom. 8:30) But we are not experientially glorified yet. Do you see yourself as glorified right now? Apparently you do.

As Christ is in me and I in Christ, of course I am glorified...to a degree.
I will again be glorified with a resurrected body after my final judgement.

As Christians, we have newness of life. But, our old man is still with us. In our experiential walk of sanctification here and now, we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin (Rom. 6:11). We reckon it so, believe it so, "that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom. 6:6) We must 'reckon it so' because in our experience here the old man still lives.

Your interpretation of "reckon" is flawed.
Use the word "recognize" in place of reckon from now on.

That is why Paul said, 'might be destroyed'. (Rom. 6:6) It is a constant contention and warfare in our walk.
Man is a sinner all the days of his life here because that which we are in Adam, is still with us. Our spirit was born-again. Our body was not. It is full of sin and still under condemnation. That is why we Christians still die. We have eternal life, but our body still must die.
Quantrill

Unregenerated, unreborn man is a sinner all his life.
Otherwise Judaism, Law keeping, will suffice for salvation.
The reborn man is of God's seed, (1 John 3:9), and not of Adam's any longer...thanks be to God.
Your POV is that fig trees can bear grapes.
That is impossible.

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory my sister in Christ.
1 John 1:8–10: “ If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (Christians - The bible wasn't written to non-believers."
(1 Cor. 2:14) "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

God actively hides His message from disbelievers.

You remember that the Lord said, (Matthew 7:6), "Do not give what is holy to the dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Well, Jesus is no hypocrite; He practices what He preaches. Christ revealed the nature and will and plan of God to those who would listen, and with the same words He concealed God from those who would not.

In the kindness and love in Christ
Seasoned by Grace

I agree

 

[Quantrill]

Quantrill my brother
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE your posting I quoted above.
THANK YOU FOR THAT !!

In much love in Christ
Seasoned by Grace

You're quite welcome.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Sorry you feel that way, as it guarantees continued sin in your life.

As Christ is in me and I in Christ, of course I am glorified...to a degree.
I will again be glorified with a resurrected body after my final judgement.

Your interpretation of "reckon" is flawed.
Use the word "recognize" in place of reckon from now on.

Unregenerated, unreborn man is a sinner all his life.
Otherwise Judaism, Law keeping, will suffice for salvation.
The reborn man is of God's seed, (1 John 3:9), and not of Adam's any longer...thanks be to God.
Your POV is that fig trees can bear grapes.
That is impossible.

Which body do you possess at this time? The body of sin, or a glorified body?

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

Your POV opposes Heb 10:10..."By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
How long must it take for Jesus to die?
It is written..."For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (Heb 10:14)
Your POV indicates that you are doing the gradual sanctification, not God.

Actually his POV doesn’t oppose Hebrews 10:10.

When you look at the context, the point the writer is making is that unlike the blood of bulls and goats, that continually needed to be offered year after year, because they could not take away the sin of the people, the body and blood of Jesus was offered once and for all people, not just the Jews.


You are trying to use the word once, to mean we are sanctified only one time, and after that the sacrifice of Jesus is somehow no longer effective to sanctify us continually as we walk in the light with Him.



Context —


For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:4-10


Jesus‘ sacrifice was done once for all people.



But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9



The walking in the light is present tense and continual, so the cleansing of sin is present tense and continual.

• If we (John included) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This doesn’t mean we are sinners who practice unrighteous, but have access to the blood of Jesus, if we should sin.



JLB

 

[daninthelionsden]

Sorry you feel that way, as it guarantees continued sin in your life.

As Christ is in me and I in Christ, of course I am glorified...to a degree.
I will again be glorified with a resurrected body after my final judgement.

Your interpretation of "reckon" is flawed.
Use the word "recognize" in place of reckon from now on.

Unregenerated, unreborn man is a sinner all his life.
Otherwise Judaism, Law keeping, will suffice for salvation.
The reborn man is of God's seed, (1 John 3:9), and not of Adam's any longer...thanks be to God.
Your POV is that fig trees can bear grapes.
That is impossible.

There is sin in things we think, say and do. You say you have conquered that.
There is also sin in all the things we left unsaid and undone. You have not conquered that.
EVERYONE avoids doing that which is unpleasant yet may be required according to what the Holy Spirit reveals. The Word says "ALL" have fallen short of the glory of God. You included.

 

[Hopeful]

Which body do you possess at this time? The body of sin, or a glorified body?

Quantrill

Not the body of sin, as it was destroyed at my water baptism into Christ. (Rom 6:6)
But "glorified body" depends on exactly which glorification you refer to.
The vessel I walk around in is His vessel till it is raised at Christ's return.
Then I will get what most call a glorified body.
As the vessel is His now, a certain amount of glorification accompanies it.
It is to be kept holy, pure, and clean.
Undefiled.
Sanctified.

 

[Blade]

Hi Hopeful and what a great question. I do see and understand what you are saying and asking. We forget we all grow in the lord Spirituality... differently. For some its hard to see the spirit vs the flesh. For me when I got stuck only seeing how my heart convicts me 24/7 it was God that asked me what is righteousness and then asked how do I get righteousness. Its not how I see me but how He sees me. Christ already died on the cross so for me what I need to focus on is what has already been done. Christ died.. I died.. He rose I rose. He can't lie so telling someone "go sin no more' "go sin no more least worse thing come on you" . I think some believe they are not in control. Yet you are. There is no one out there that controls you. With ever temptation He has already made a way out.

That means we don't have to sin. Its just in this flesh we are as some said still learning, and we then think or say or do things that we believe is ok yet can be sin and we don't see it.. For me when Paul said its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me I understand this. We put on the new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. With the Father He sees us holy righteous. He is faithful to what Christ did not what I do. I needed a saviour. Now I do works of righteousness yet because I believe in Jesus its counted to me as righteousness. So in all this some can still be babis in Christ drinking milk or eating meat.

This is what I believe not here to say "what that verse or what Christ said" really means. Not my right.

 

[Hopeful]

There is sin in things we think, say and do. You say you have conquered that.
There is also sin in all the things we left unsaid and undone. You have not conquered that.
EVERYONE avoids doing that which is unpleasant yet may be required according to what the Holy Spirit reveals. The Word says "ALL" have fallen short of the glory of God. You included.

I didn't conquer them, Jesus Christ conquered them for me.
I have a new nature and a new mind since my regeneration.
I was fallen, but I have been reborn of God's seed.

BTW, Jesus never sinned, so your "all have fallen" reference is written out of context.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I didn't conquer them, Jesus Christ conquered them for me.
I have a new nature and a new mind since my regeneration.
I was fallen, but I have been reborn of God's seed.

BTW, Jesus never sinned, so your "all have fallen" reference is written out of context.

Basically you're your copping out. OK then HOW exactly are you doing/thinking/saying ALL that you are supposed to be. Because if you can just say "Jesus has me covered on all I fail to not do" then how can you beat anyone over the head if they say "Jesus has me covered on all that I DO"?

 

[Hopeful]

Hi Hopeful and what a great question. I do see and understand what you are saying and asking. We forget we all grow in the lord Spirituality... differently. For some its hard to see the spirit vs the flesh. For me when I got stuck only seeing how my heart convicts me 24/7 it was God that asked me what is righteousness and then asked how do I get righteousness. Its not how I see me but how He sees me. Christ already died on the cross so for me what I need to focus on is what has already been done. Christ died.. I died.. He rose I rose. He can't lie so telling someone "go sin no more' "go sin no more least worse thing come on you" . I think some believe they are not in control. Yet you are. There is no one out there that controls you. With ever temptation He has already made a way out.

That means we don't have to sin. Its just in this flesh we are as some said still learning, and we then think or say or do things that we believe is ok yet can be sin and we don't see it.. For me when Paul said its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me I understand this. We put on the new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. With the Father He sees us holy righteous. He is faithful to what Christ did not what I do. I needed a saviour. Now I do works of righteousness yet because I believe in Jesus its counted to me as righteousness. So in all this some can still be babis in Christ drinking milk or eating meat.

This is what I believe not here to say "what that verse or what Christ said" really means. Not my right.

Too bad you didn't reply to the post instead of just adding on.
I have no idea which "question" you are referring to.

As for "still learning", I hope to grow in grace and knowledge till my last day.
But using it as an excuse to commit sin is is ludicrous.
It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Nobody is tempted above what they already know.
Isn't God's word wonderful???

 

[Hopeful]

Basically you're your copping out. OK then HOW exactly are you doing/thinking/saying ALL that you are supposed to be.

After I turned from sin and was water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, I received the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
God, in me, keeps me on the right path and helps me take the correct "fork in the road".

Because if you can just say "Jesus has me covered on all I fail to not do" then how can you beat anyone over the head if they say "Jesus has me covered on all that I DO"?

I don't need to "just say" that.
And I don't beat anyone over the head.
I am just offering an alternative to a life in darkness-sin.