Living without sin?

[daninthelionsden]

After I turned from sin and was water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, I received the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
God, in me, keeps me on the right path and helps me take the correct "fork in the road".


I don't need to "just say" that.
And I don't beat anyone over the head.
I am just offering an alternative to a life in darkness-sin.

You are doing great at avoiding sinful actions and I commend that. What I want to know is how you are not avoiding that which you SHOULD DO in each and every case and how you know this.

 

[Hopeful]

You are doing great at avoiding sinful actions and I commend that. What I want to know is how you are not avoiding that which you SHOULD DO in each and every case and how you know this.

I do what the Spirit of God within me would do if He weren't encumbered by my aged skin and bones.
I help when I can.
Love God above all else, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
I love my new self a ton.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I do what the Spirit of God within me would do if He weren't encumbered by my aged skin and bones.
I help when I can.
Love God above all else, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
I love my new self a ton.

So are you admitting you could possibly be sinning by not doing all that you could? How do you know you've done ALL you could or just what you felt like doing?

 

[ezrider]

If you are living without sin, then you are dead to sin.

If you were truly dead to sin, then you would see no sin in others.

 

[Hopeful]

So are you admitting you could possibly be sinning by not doing all that you could?

Not at all.
Sin would require enticement, temptation, lust, and conception of the sin. As James says James 1:14-15.
As my lusts were crucified with Christ, (Gal 5:24), I have no reason to withhold helping others for my own pleasure.
I do what I can.

How do you know you've done ALL you could or just what you felt like doing?

With a new nature, and having been reborn of God's seed, both my motives and manner are Godly.
What "I felt like doing" is based on who I am now in Christ Jesus.
Not on what a watcher thinks of my actions.

 

[Hopeful]

If you are living without sin, then you are dead to sin.

If you were truly dead to sin, then you would see no sin in others.

I see no sin in those who are also dead to sin.
They don't commit sin.
The sins of those not dead to sin cannot be hidden.

 

[ezrider]

I see no sin in those who are also dead to sin.
They don't commit sin.
The sins of those not dead to sin cannot be hidden.

Ah, so I see. God says he has blotted out your sins because he doesn't want to see them anymore. But you're happy to remind him of them. But you, because you know the difference the wheat and the tare, that you know the living from the dead, that you can see their sins because they are not hidden. So like the serpent, you stand behind the throne of God accusing the brethren day and night.

It's amazing how some think only their sins are hidden in Christ, but not the sins of others.

Again, if you were truly dead to sin, then you would no longer see the sin in others, as Christ sees no sin in you.

The law of sin keeps you bound to sin, whether you are obedient to it or not. If you remain obedient you shall be blessed, otherwise the curse remains for those under the law of sin. And we know what is written, He that shall keep part of the law, shall keep all of the law. Both the blessings and the curses.

 

[Quantrill]

Not the body of sin, as it was destroyed at my water baptism into Christ. (Rom 6:6)
But "glorified body" depends on exactly which glorification you refer to.
The vessel I walk around in is His vessel till it is raised at Christ's return.
Then I will get what most call a glorified body.
As the vessel is His now, a certain amount of glorification accompanies it.
It is to be kept holy, pure, and clean.
Undefiled.
Sanctified.

There is a body of sin, and a glorified body. You have either one or the other. If you don't have a body of sin, then you have a glorified body.

Your twisted doctrine of being sinless gets more twisted all the time.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

Not the body of sin, as it was destroyed at my water baptism into Christ. (Rom 6:6)

Romans 6:6 certainly doesn’t say any such thing. Those are your words, that you projected into that verse which violates the context of the rest of Romans 6, 7 and 8.

knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. Romans 6:6

No mention of baptism, and certainly no mention of water baptism in verse 6.


You are glorifying water baptism to be a one time savior instead of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Spirit that empowers us daily to take up our cross, and crucify our flesh by the Spirit, to live from His Spirit within us rather than the sin that dwells in our flesh.


Paul warns us not to allow sin that dwells in our flesh, to have dominion over us.


What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Romans 6:1


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Romans 6:12-13


Yet you claim right in the middle of these verses that in verse 6, that water baptism has destroyed the body of sin?

Yet here Paul is warning ... “do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts”, but you claim water baptism has destroyed the body of sin.


Your mistaken at best.



Do you understand that there are three distinct baptisms outlined in scripture, with three different baptizers?


Yet you seem to think that the only baptism administered by man, is the one that makes us sinless.


Physical water does nothing for us, apart from our faith, and the Holy Spirit. Without faith and the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace, water is just a way to get wet.





JLB

 

[Randy]

Hopeful my brother


God disagrees with you.
Read the verses below.

First John 5:16, two verses earlier: “If anyone sees his brother sinning, [a Christian] committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life.” So he can’t mean that Christians don’t sin, because he just gave instruction for how to help Christians who do sin.

The same thing is true in 1 John 1:8–10: “ If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

So in the meaning of 1 John 5:18, I think here in the context, the first and obvious meaning would be: The one who is born of God does not sin unto death; that is, we don’t make peace with sin, settle into a pattern of sinning that will destroy us in the end, prove that we are not truly born of God and are not truly Christians. Christians walk in the light, and, according to 1 John 1:8–10, walking in the light is not sinlessness. It is walking in a way that you have eyes to see in the light the ugliness of what you just did, and you are sorry for it. You confess it. You keep short accounts with God, and you move on.

So I think “does not sin” means (1) doesn’t commit the sin unto death, and (2) doesn’t settle into a pattern of sinning that proves you have no spiritual life in you.

Seasoned by Grace

First I think you meant 1John 5:16 not John 5:16.
Not continuing to sin is based on being born again with being kept safe by the one who was born again meaning Christ not the prayers of another. Unless you consider that's one of the methods Jesus uses to protect us from the evil one. I think Jesus himself prayed for us. The Spirit in us intercedes for us. I think God hears/acts on those prayers.
Not continuing to sin means they had sin once and could not claim to be without sin. I have witnessed to those in Judaism who claimed they had no sin to forgive.

I think the key is as Paul wrote, "faith expressing itself through love"
There is great cloud of witnesses that have kept the faith and finished the race. That speaks in favor of those born of God. They were not on their own.

That said I would state with the gospel with all the warnings given. Some have doubts some are new to the faith and each person is different. In 1john John is speaking of anti Christs and people trying to lead them astray in other words false teachers. He goes into detail basically about a good tree doesn't bare bad fruit and by their fruit you will recognize them. You will be able to know those who follow the truth vs those that don't. Those who don't obey Christs commands have not known Him. Those that claim to know Him but do not do what He states are liars.

So basically those who shrink back will be condemned but those who are born of God are those who believe and do not shrink back and will be saved by grace through their faith. Their very holding to the testimony of Jesus shows them to be as Jesus stated, "really His disciples"
So if we add to together those who hold to the testimony of Jesus and keep His commands that shows those who really know and belong to Christ.

Such as these are those who will not walk away from Jesus. They cannot forget this witness. They are a new creation. The Lord knows who really loves and believes in Him.

“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

 

[Hopeful]

Ah, so I see. God says he has blotted out your sins because he doesn't want to see them anymore. But you're happy to remind him of them.

I don't know what you are talking about???

But you, because you know the difference the wheat and the tare, that you know the living from the dead, that you can see their sins because they are not hidden. So like the serpent, you stand behind the throne of God accusing the brethren day and night.

God needs no reminders of who are and who are not His children.
If my prayers for those I love who are not yet in Christ serve as a reminder to God of their still fallen natures, I can't really stop.
I care too deeply for them.

It's amazing how some think only their sins are hidden in Christ, but not the sins of others.
Again, if you were truly dead to sin, then you would no longer see the sin in others, as Christ sees no sin in you.

My past sins were washed away, not hidden. So your odd tangent holds no water.
God sees no sin in non-sinners.
But the sins of the haters of God cannot be hidden.

The law of sin keeps you bound to sin, whether you are obedient to it or not. If you remain obedient you shall be blessed, otherwise the curse remains for those under the law of sin. And we know what is written, He that shall keep part of the law, shall keep all of the law. Both the blessings and the curses.

The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, (Rom 8:2), has freed me from the law of sin and death.
You present a straw-man argument.

 

[Hopeful]

There is a body of sin, and a glorified body. You have either one or the other. If you don't have a body of sin, then you have a glorified body.
Your twisted doctrine of being sinless gets more twisted all the time.
Quantrill

Given only those two options, my body is glorified, as the body of sin was destroyed at my water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, (Rom 6:6)...thanks be to God.
The vessel I am transported around in now is, like Paul's in Gal 2:20...."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

I wish you could realize the glory and power of God and His ability to do much more than you seem to give him credit for.

 

[Hopeful]

Romans 6:6 certainly doesn’t say any such thing. Those are your words, that you projected into that verse which violates the context of the rest of Romans 6, 7 and 8.
"knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin." (Romans 6:6)
No mention of baptism, and certainly no mention of water baptism in verse 6.

As per your kindly mentioned context, the specifics of baptism are indeed mentioned in prior verses.
" 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:3-7)

You are glorifying water baptism to be a one time savior instead of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Spirit that empowers us daily to take up our cross, and crucify our flesh by the Spirit, to live from His Spirit within us rather than the sin that dwells in our flesh.

I don't think I have ever been accused of glorifying water baptism before.
I will, however, magnify God and His grace for providing a doable method of rebirth, cleansing, remittance from past sins, death of the old man, his burial, and resurrection to walk in newness of life.

Paul warns us not to allow sin that dwells in our flesh, to have dominion over us.

A good exhortation to obey.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Romans 6:1
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Romans 6:12-13

Amen, and thanks be to God.

Yet you claim right in the middle of these verses that in verse 6, that water baptism has destroyed the body of sin?

That's what verse 6 said.

Yet here Paul is warning ... “do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts”, but you claim water baptism has destroyed the body of sin.

He won't tell us to do something that is impossible.
Those still serving sin can't be confused for the holy if they won't obey.

Your mistaken at best
Do you understand that there are three distinct baptisms outlined in scripture, with three different baptizers?

I know of at least three, but the one wherein I was able to die and be reborn was with water...thanks be to God.

Yet you seem to think that the only baptism administered by man, is the one that makes us sinless.

I do indeed.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit, given by God, helps keep us free from sin...among other things.

Physical water does nothing for us, apart from our faith, and the Holy Spirit. Without faith and the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace, water is just a way to get wet.
JLB

Has the method of baptism you have chosen allowed you to walk without sin?

That physical water is the blood of Christ...."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8)

 

[daninthelionsden]

Not at all.
Sin would require enticement, temptation, lust, and conception of the sin. As James says James 1:14-15.
As my lusts were crucified with Christ, (Gal 5:24), I have no reason to withhold helping others for my own pleasure.
I do what I can.

With a new nature, and having been reborn of God's seed, both my motives and manner are Godly.
What "I felt like doing" is based on who I am now in Christ Jesus.
Not on what a watcher thinks of my actions.

I find it hard to believe you walked by homeless people and did all you could. That you noticed all in pain or all children abused and did everything you possibly could do. You went and prayed over all the sick in the hospitals or visited all the prisoners. You say you do EVERYTHING you possibly can?????

 

[ezrider]

The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, (Rom 8:2), has freed me from the law of sin and death.
You present a straw-man argument.

The thing you fail to understand, is that if you still focus on the sins of others, then you yourself are not yet truly free of the law of sin and death. Just because you can read and claim a bible verse for yourself doesn't make it so.

 

[Blade]

Sorry... I tend to read all and then want to reply but haha forget to say just WHO I am replying to. So how about this

To to be clear Hopeful said " I, or they, can't be sin free, I can just show why I can." Forgive me but to be blunt this thinking is not of God. Hes word clearly speaks differently. In John by the Spirit of God said if we say we have no sin/to be with out sin we deceive our selfs and the truth is not in us." And yes I know just to whom John was talking to. At that time there were (wow what are the odds) those that believed they don't sin so forth so on. We can also see this when by the spirit of God said if we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness.

No offense to any one here but I think we can agree Paul was for a lack of a better word better than closer to God/Christ and had one of if not the greatest revelations then anyone here. Even Paul said But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:"

There is no one that lives a sinless life. That which is made new in us does not sin this is true. Now if that is what your talking about then maybe make it clearer for people like me. You have not even touched this road so to speak yet. Well lets go deeper.... anything that not of/not based/not from faith is sin. What is faith?

We need to be aware how some grow in the lord. We can be putting stumbling blocks in front of them. Forgive me i am just not good with words. I do not agree with you Hopeful unless I have read it wrong.

 

[JLB]

As per your kindly mentioned context, the specifics of baptism are indeed mentioned in prior verses.
" 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

So now you are interested in context, well don’t forget these two verses.


What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?


Paul is teaching them not to continue in sin.


They way he teaches them is this —


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14



If by getting dunked in water, we are somehow automatically dead to sin, because our physical body that contains sin is done away with, why does Paul give us these instructions?






JLB

 

[Hopeful]

I find it hard to believe you walked by homeless people and did all you could. That you noticed all in pain or all children abused and did everything you possibly could do. You went and prayed over all the sick in the hospitals or visited all the prisoners. You say you do EVERYTHING you possibly can?????

When did I walk past a homeless person?
When did I "nothing"?
If you find anything hard to believe, don't you think it is hard to believe that those who commit sin say they love God?

 

[Hopeful]

The thing you fail to understand, is that if you still focus on the sins of others, then you yourself are not yet truly free of the law of sin and death. Just because you can read and claim a bible verse for yourself doesn't make it so.

When do I focus on the sins of others?
Where have I written anything not meant to free men from service to sin?

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry... I tend to read all and then want to reply but haha forget to say just WHO I am replying to. So how about this

To to be clear Hopeful said " I, or they, can't be sin free, I can just show why I can."

Please show the post number of me saying that, so I have some context.
Post #s are in the upper-right corner of every post.

Forgive me but to be blunt this thinking is not of God. Hes word clearly speaks differently. In John by the Spirit of God said if we say we have no sin/to be with out sin we deceive our selfs and the truth is not in us." And yes I know just to whom John was talking to. At that time there were (wow what are the odds) those that believed they don't sin so forth so on. We can also see this when by the spirit of God said if we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness.

John was writing to the church, about two very different kinds of men with very different kinds of walk.
Some of the verses apply to those who walk in the light, while others apply to those who walk in darkness.

No offense to any one here but I think we can agree Paul was for a lack of a better word better than closer to God/Christ and had one of if not the greatest revelations then anyone here. Even Paul said But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:"

Paul was writing of his pre-conversion life, while still in the flesh, and trying to fulfil the Mosaic Law.
Unsuccessfully, I might add.
As for the "principal" (worded 'law' in the KJV of the bible), he writes in Romans 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
What you attribute to Paul, he has been freed from.

Blade:
There is no one that lives a sinless life.
You are wrong, some love God above all else.
Jesus lived a sin free life while enduring all we endure.

Blade:
That which is made new in us does not sin this is true.
2 Cor 5:17 says..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
ALL things are made new.

Blade:
Now if that is what your talking about then maybe make it clearer for people like me. You have not even touched this road so to speak yet. Well lets go deeper.... anything that not of/not based/not from faith is sin. What is faith?
Faith is belief.

We need to be aware how some grow in the lord. We can be putting stumbling blocks in front of them. Forgive me i am just not good with words. I do not agree with you Hopeful unless I have read it wrong.

Men can't grow in the lord if they are not in the Lord.
And you know what...there is no sin 'in the Lord".