Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[Deborah13]

I think forgiveness can be described as not taking revenge on someone who has offended you.

 

[Butch5]

(sarcastic)Well apparently the blood of Christ covers all sin except the sin of unbelief. Sin is just to powerful. Guess the grace of God doesn't abound after all. Poor people who got deceived and fell into unbelief has no hope....I mean yea, Christ died for our sins and all, but in reality salvation is all on us(/sarcastic)

Like I said, It is impossible to loose your salvation once you have been justified unto eternal life. God has made it where he himself cannot unjustify once justified without going against his very nature. But, though saved, you can have lose of reward.

What does this passage mean?

NKJ 1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3 all ate the same spiritual food,
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play1."
8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;
9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. (1Co 10:1-12 NKJ)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

(sarcastic)Well apparently the blood of Christ covers all sin except the sin of unbelief.

Correct. There will be no unbelievers in the Kingdom of God.

Justification is secured through believing in the power of Christ's blood to forgive sin. No faith, no believing in the blood for the forgiveness of sin, no application of the blood of Christ to forgive sin.

Sin is just to powerful. Guess the grace of God doesn't abound after all.

Grace can not cover the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Rejecting the voice of God testifying to the forgiveness of God in Christ simply can not be forgiven. What provision of forgiveness has God provided for the sin of rejecting his provision of forgiveness??????

Poor people who got deceived and fell into unbelief has no hope....

Yes, if they chose to not believe, or continue to believe, after God reveals their deception to them.

I mean yea, Christ died for our sins and all, but in reality salvation is all on us(/sarcastic)

God gives the gracious gift of faith (the ability to know something is true that you can't know is true on your own). Our responsibility is to trust/believe in what God has graciously shown us to be true.

Like I said, It is impossible to loose your salvation once you have been justified unto eternal life. God has made it where he himself cannot unjustify once justified without going against his very nature. But, though saved, you can have lose of reward.

Justification is by having your debt of sin forgiven by God. In the parable of the unmerciful servant, the servant's debt was forgiven, but when the king saw that the servant was not forgiving the debt of a fellow servant he reinstated the debt the servant owed him. It did not remain 'once forgiven, always forgiven', no matter what. And we see that not even 'If forgiven, always forgiven' was true for the servant.

The forgiveness of God is conditioned on your belief and trust (your faith) in that forgiveness (as opposed to being conditioned on works of the law). And you must continue in that belief and trust and faith in that forgiveness for you to remain justified (your sin debt erased through forgiveness) by that belief and trust and faith in that forgiveness.

"...He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard..." (Colossians 1:22-23)

 

[JLB]

Blasphemy of the Spirit is calling the Holy Spirit the Devil.

Speaking a reviling or slanderous word against the Holy Spirit.

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, "This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons."
31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:24,31-32

In order to Blaspheme, you have to open your mouth and say something against God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

Rejecting to Gospel message requires that a person do nothing or say nothing.

Strong's Number: 988 - Blasphemia

Definition

1. slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name
2. impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I think forgiveness can be described as not taking revenge on someone who has offended you.

I like to think of it as not regarding the person in light of the wrong committed towards you. This means not only taking revenge, but seeing them through different eyes, rather than the eyes of being offended or wronged.

 

[WIP]

I like to think of it as not regarding the person in light of the wrong committed towards you. This means not only taking revenge, but seeing them through different eyes, rather than the eyes of being offended or wronged.

I too think it goes further than just not taking revenge. I can decide not to forgive and still not take revenge. I think forgiveness also includes giving up the desire to take revenge.

 

[Edward]

If a person can give up salvation at any point then has he got saved in the first place?

One person was arguing with me about this but is this logic possible?

Yes, you can be saved and then lost your salvation. This is easily provavble with scripture.

Psalm 69: 28
28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous./(KJV)

Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels./(KJV)

That seems to make it clear. Hey...this also proves will. God does not change, if He Saved you, and then you turned from Him...then He could blot your name out of the book of life. It is of mans free will to turn on God, that could not be of Gods will.

 

[Edward]

(sarcastic)Well apparently the blood of Christ covers all sin except the sin of unbelief. Sin is just to powerful. Guess the grace of God doesn't abound after all. Poor people who got deceived and fell into unbelief has no hope....I mean yea, Christ died for our sins and all, but in reality salvation is all on us(/sarcastic)

Like I said, It is impossible to loose your salvation once you have been justified unto eternal life. God has made it where he himself cannot unjustify once justified without going against his very nature. But, though saved, you can have lose of reward.

Say what? Ok brother, then if what you say is true...what are we to do with the two scriptures that I posted above?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yes, you can be saved and then lost your salvation. This is easily provavble with scripture.

Psalm 69: 28
28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous./(KJV)

Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels./(KJV)

That seems to make it clear. Hey...this also proves will. God does not change, if He Saved you, and then you turned from Him...then He could blot your name out of the book of life. It is of mans free will to turn on God, that could not be of Gods will.

What you are saying makes no sense.
One day God saves you and the next day he condemns you.
The next day day he saves you again and the next he condemns you again.
God has no power or control over the situation.
We control our own destiny.
We decide through our own strength as to whether we will be saved in the end.
It is not God's decision.
It is our decision.
God could care less one way or the other.
Take it or leave it.
Be saved and then change your mind.
Your choice.

I've never heard this taught before.
Thank God for that.

 

[Edward]

What you are saying makes no sense.
One day God saves you and the next day he condemns you.
The next day day he saves you again and the next he condemns you again.
God has no power or control over the situation.
We control our own destiny.
We decide through our own strength as to whether we will be saved in the end.
It is not God's decision.
It is our decision.
God could care less one way or the other.
Take it or leave it.
Be saved and then change your mind.
Your choice.

I've never heard this taught before.
Thank God for that.

God could care less brother. For He is not willing that any should perish...I think I just made a poor choice of words again. He will not force Himself upon us, to turn to God is up to us. We repent and ask forgiveness, and he will, then He writes our names in the book of Life. Later on, if we decide we do not want it and turn away from God...then our name is blotted out from the book like the scripture says.

Better?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

God could care less brother. For He is not willing that any should perish...I think I just made a poor choice of words again. He will not force Himself upon us, to turn to God is up to us. We repent and ask forgiveness, and he will, then He writes our names in the book of Life. Later on, if we decide we do not want it and turn away from God...then our name is blotted out from the book like the scripture says.

Better?

No.
I interpreted my own way what you said.
We still disagree totally.
If God really has the power to save us, then he must also have the power to keep us saved.

How about this;
You die but 1 second before you die you have a bad thought.
Oops, you lose your salvation.
You go up to heaven and the angel says, "oh sorry Edward, your name was just erased a moment ago".
But before you leave, listen to this, it's Jesus speaking to you.
"Depart from me, I never knew you".

Honestly Edward, I just don't see it happening.

 

[Edward]

well, then what would those scriptures mean that say that peoples names can be blotted out?

 

[chessman]

...what are we to do with the two scriptures that I posted above?

You might want to read all the way through Ps 69.

It's an imprecatory Psalm (the most famous one) whereby the singer is indeed asking God for calamity to come to his enemies. Anything from blindness to stomach troubles.

Psalm 69:4 More numerous than the hairs of my head are those hating me without a cause.Those who are destroying me—my enemies wrongfully— are mighty.

Psalm 69:13-14, 18, 22-25, 27-28 But as for me, my prayer is to you, O Yahweh, for a favorable time,O God, according to the abundance of your loyal love.Answer me with the faithfulness of your salvation. Deliver me from the mud and do not let me sink.Let me be delivered from those who hate me and from the watery depths. Draw near to my soul; redeem it.Because of my enemies, ransom me. Let their table before them be a trap,and their times of peace a snare. Let their eyes be dark so they cannot see,and make their loins continually tremble. Pour out your indignation on them,and let your burning anger overtake them. Let their camp be desolate.Let none dwell in their tents, Add guilt on top of their guilt,and do not let them be acquitted. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living,and let them not be recorded with the righteous.
​

That particular verse is the culmination, asking for death (the 1st one) to come to his enemies. It does not say God will necessarily do as the singer asks, either.

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels./(KJV)​

The verse specifically says Jesus will not blot out any that overcome. I kind of take Jesus at his word, don't you?

​

 

[Gary]

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels./(KJV)

The verse specifically says Jesus will not blot out any that overcome. I kind of take Jesus at his word, don't you?

​

What happens if the individual doesn't "overcome"?
.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What happens if the individual doesn't "overcome"?
.

And who are they?

2 Corinthians 1:21-22; NIV
"Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come".

I see these verses meaning that God will not let go of those that truly belong to him.

 

[chessman]

What happens if the individual doesn't "overcome"?
.

They undercome. But I thought we were talking about saved people.

 

[Deborah13]

I like to think of it as not regarding the person in light of the wrong committed towards you. This means not only taking revenge, but seeing them through different eyes, rather than the eyes of being offended or wronged.

I too think it goes further than just not taking revenge. I can decide not to forgive and still not take revenge. I think forgiveness also includes giving up the desire to take revenge.

To me it would be revengeful to.....
Not to pray for the person who offended
for their salvation if they weren't saved
for their healing if that's what they need
for their needs to be met

 

[Gary]

And who are they?

Who is Christ addressing?

2 Corinthians 1:21-22; NIV
"Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come".

I see these verses meaning that God will not let go of those that truly belong to him.

What exactly determines who truly belongs to Him? Anyone can say they belong to Him, but do they?
.
.

 

[Dustoftheearth]

God gave adultery as a legitimate grounds for divorce so I would have to say in that case the answer is yes. We have God as an example, He divorced Israel.

8 "Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also. (Jer 3:8 NKJ)

Hi again Butch5

I wasn’t really asking about the legitimacy of becoming divorced.

Does divorce mean a separation of what God has joined together to become one flesh, or is divorce nothing more than being absolved from marital duties?

How can a man commit adultery by marrying a ‘divorced’ woman, if by God, she is no longer joined to another?

 

[Deborah13]

Hi again Butch5

I wasn’t really asking about the legitimacy of becoming divorced.

Does divorce mean a separation of what God has joined together to become one flesh, or is divorce nothing more than being absolved from marital duties?

How can a man commit adultery by marrying a ‘divorced’ woman, if by God, she is no longer joined to another?

I think that verse is clearly talking about when one is divorced without just cause.
Fornication is just cause. So if the man divorced his wife for anything besides fornication then they were not legally divorced they were both still married.