Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[chessman]

10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Oh boy, we b in trouble.


Hay, wait a minute though:

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
.

Good thing He fulfilled, no?

 

[Gary]

Good thing He fulfilled, no?

Matthew 5
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

.

 

[MarkT]

If a person can give up salvation at any point then has he got saved in the first place?
One person was arguing with me about this but is this logic possible?

No. You can't give up salvation.

 

[jeff77]

No. You can't give up salvation.

Maybe people don't give up salvation in particular, but give up on faith.

 

[Deborah13]

Oh boy, we b in trouble.


Hay, wait a minute though:


Good thing He fulfilled, no?

I remember when I didn't understand fully what the change in the covenant really meant. I believed we were still obeying Moses Law, lol. I didn't even know what the Law said, just the big 10. What do you mean 603+10? Yike.

 

[Gregg]

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them,he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.


James 2
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

.

Hi Gary,
Jesus was born under the Law, as were those He spoke to in Mat 5:17-20. Jesus fulfilled the Law regarding sin. He overcame death [spiritual death and physical death] and sin. If we are in Christ, a member of His body, then His righteousness is accounted to us and His blood covers us. So then death and sin no longer have power over us who are in the body of Christ.

"I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, the One loving me and giving Himself over on my behalf" (Gal 2:20).

 

[chessman]

View attachment 4653

If you wish to not be saved long enough, Paul says God will grant your wish.

Jethro, ol' chap!
Where does Paul say that?

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Unsaved&qs_version=LEB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro, ol' chap!
Where does Paul say that?

"21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach - 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I,Paul, was made a minister." (Colossians 1:21-23 NAS)

Stop clinging in steadfast faith to the reconciliation you have received, either out of an indifference or a purposeful contempt for the grace you have received, and you will no longer be reconciled to God.


"1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NAS)

You can't 'move away' from the firm promise of salvation you have in Christ and then think you still have the firm foundation of that promise of salvation. The words of the Bible are plain--"in which also you stand...IF YOU HOLD FAST". The duty of man is to hold fast to that which he has received so he can be saved on the Day of Wrath. Think the virgins and their lamps. Some stayed prepared and ready for the bridegroom. Others did not.

1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 "Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3 "For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. (Matthew 25:1-4 NAS)

The point being, the wise virgins held fast to what they needed for the long wait to meet the bridegroom. The foolish virgins did not--they were simply not prepared to meet him, but it's obvious they thought they had what they needed to meet him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No. You can't give up salvation.

Then why does Paul tell us to hold fast to the hope of our salvation, or else lose it?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro, Salvation is an instant in time. The moment a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ that person is saved...

This is not what's in debate. Paul plainly says the person who believes the gospel he preaches is now reconciled with God. Believing in Christ for the forgiveness of sins is how a person receives the hope and promise of salvation. But he also plainly says that you must cling to the gospel you have heard and by which you are saved in order to continue to be reconciled to God through that gospel.

...and saved for an eternity.

...If you continue to believe to the very end.

The Lord saves that person at that moment in time. That is why we have the aorist tense in "Believe" in that verse. The Moment one believes, the Lord saves them.

No question about it. Paul plainly says that in clear words. But in those very same passages, and in equally clear words, he says you have to believe to the end to remain saved.

Salvation is in His court at that moment.

Not completely. Paul is very clear that it is incumbent on the person who believes to believe to the very end to realize the sure promise and hope of salvation.

The person is saved and becomes the Lords Child, no matter what the child chooses to do with it.

Sounds good to itching ears, but I showed you the plain Words of scripture that says it DOES matter what you do with it. Stop believing the gospel of salvation and you no longer have the gospel of salvation to save you when Christ appears to gather together his kingdom. You'll be left outside pounding on the door begging for entrance into the kingdom.

Acts 16:31~~They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Our faith does not save us, the object of our faith saves us. The moment we have a clear, true belief in the Son He saves us.

As I say, this is not in debate. Paul's words are clear about this. But it is important to know that it is the HOPE and PROMISE of a future salvation, but one which we possess now in the form of the down payment--the promissory note--of things to come in the person of the Holy Spirit.

It's like holding the winning lotto ticket. You don't have all the winnings now, but the surety of the government that enforces it's guarantee of payout allows the ticket holder to open a line of credit toward the promise of the riches they are guaranteed later. He draws as much or as little as he wants from that line of credit (think 'Holy Spirit'). But the ticket holder MUST have the ticket on the day of redemption, or else forfeit the promise and guarantee of riches that ticket guaranteed. You can't arrive in the State capitol to receive the payout of a winning lotto ticket you did not guard and retain. And you will lose what you had received on credit before then.

We can't get out of it, even if we are stupid enough to try to get out of It.

I insist you show me how we get that out of the passages I posted. I insist on it. This is a very serious matter. This is not just a curious discussion about facts and truths about the Christian faith. If you are wrong, you are deceiving people into into taking a false comfort in a salvation they really have no guarantee of having if they are "stupid enough to try to get out of it". God will surely let you get out of it. Surely. And you will beat your fists raw on the door of the kingdom of God trying to convince him you really didn't give it up.

The unbiblical teaching is that the Lord will forsake us and that He can lie about giving us eternal life.

Read the passages I posted. The Lord does not do the forsaking and denying. WE DO. The Bible plainly says God will deny the 'believer' who denies him. That is not a forsaking by God.

If it can be taken back or lost the very definition of "eternal" would have to change in Christianity.

How 'bout we bring Christianity back to the truth that this eternal life in an eternal kingdom is contingent on a continuing faith, not a one-time declaration of faith in Christ.

The continued 'work' of believing is called experiential sanctification in our sin state.

But I showed you the plain words of scripture that the continued work of believing is much, much more than just about growing up into the salvation you have. It is all about retaining that salvation.

The moment we believe we are positionally sanctified and 100% righteous in our new creation in Christ.

No question about it. Paul plainly said right in the passage I shared that those who receive his gospel are reconciled with God and will be presented holy and blameless before God, but he also added the condition of CONTINUING in the gospel that secured that reconciliation and promise of being presented holy and blameless before God at the Judgment.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OSAS is the Q-tip that people itch their spiritual ear canals with. It feels so good they can't stop.

 

[Gregg]

"1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NAS)

"Unless you believed in vain" . . . Did they believe Paul's account of the Resurrection of Jesus? Some in Corinth said there was no resurrection from the dead (1Cor 15:12). If there is no resurrection, then they believed in vain.

Those who denied a resurrection did not "hold fast the word which" Paul "preached." They believed only part of the Gospel, and ignored the rest.

This text by no means advocates temporary salvation, or a salvation that can be abandoned once entered into.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Unless you believed in vain" . . . Did they believe Paul's account of the Resurrection of Jesus? Some in Corinth said there was no resurrection from the dead (1Cor 15:12). If there is no resurrection, then they believed in vain.

Those who denied a resurrection did not "hold fast the word which" Paul "preached." They believed only part of the Gospel, and ignored the rest.

This text by no means advocates temporary salvation, or a salvation that can be abandoned once entered into.

IF you continue to believe, your believing will not be in vain. Stop believing and what believing you did do will be in vain.

Perhaps you have comments about the Colossians passage I posted to convince us that we can even stop believing and we are still saved by the faith we used to have.

 

[Gregg]

"21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach - 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I,Paul, was made a minister." (Colossians 1:21-23 NAS)

Stop clinging in steadfast faith to the reconciliation you have received, either out of an indifference or a purposeful contempt for the grace you have received, and you will no longer be reconciled to God.

You are ignoring that Paul said the Lord "has reconciled you . . ."

We have been raised in Christ, and are seated with Him (Col 1:13, Col 2:12).
We are redeemed (Col 1:14)
We are forgiven (Col 1:14, Col 2:13).
We have peace with God by the blood of the cross (Col 1:20).
We are atoned for and remain reconciled to God (Col 1:21).

To deny these things is to be "moved away from the hope of the Gospel." Because the hope of the Gospel does not rest upon our works, but upon Christ who accomplished these things.

Can a man hope in himself and in Christ? No, our only hope is Christ. He is the Living One, the Resurrection and the Life.

 

[Gregg]

IF you continue to believe, your believing will not be in vain. Stop believing and what believing you did do will be in vain.

Perhaps you have comments about the Colossians passage I posted to convince us that we can even stop believing and we are still saved by the faith we used to have.

A Christian will not stop believing.

Some here are focused on [preoccupied with] not believing. I am focused upon the One in whom I believe.

 

[Gregg]

. . . and we are still saved by the faith we used to have.

We are never saved by the faith that we have. However, we are continually saved by the One in which we have placed our faith.

 

[Gary]

A Christian will not stop believing.

But that same Christian, if they're not paying attention, can find themselves on a path leading away from life.


Anyone can believe. The trick is knowing what to do with that belief.
.

 

[Gregg]

But that same Christian, if they're not paying attention, can find themselves on a path leading away from life.

Anyone can believe. The trick is knowing what to do with that belief.
.

Hi Gary,
Anyone can believe with their physical mind [only knowing about God], but a Christian believes from the heart knowing in Whom he believes.

We receive the gift of faith, that is what we have already done (Ephesians 2:5, Ephesians 2:8). At that point, the intent of the will of God (Ephesians 1:5, 9, 11) has been realized in that person. According to that same will of God, we are then sealed in Christ with His Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14).

I assure you that God's attention remains upon us even when we are not 'paying attention.'

 

[Gregg]

I've noticed that arguments against OSAS tend to focus attention on the creature rather that the Creator.

 

[Deborah13]

I've noticed that arguments against OSAS tend to focus attention on the creature rather that the Creator.

I agree, if stay focused on Him we are not focusing on sin of creature.
However,
I think that what people are focused on is the scriptures in God's Word that seem to conflict and cause tension.

So here's some thoughts I've had this morning and they are basically questions that I haven't answered in my own mind or spirit. For everyone reading this....This is all spiritually speaking so let's not get into a discussion about divorce, please.

Believers as the bride are now betrothed to the bridegroom and awaiting the actual consummation of the marriage?

Remembering that a betrothal is a vow taken and can only be terminated by a writ of divorce....
Can the bridegroom divorce the bride?
Can the bride divorce the bridegroom?
What does leave and forsake mean?