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Losing Salvation after getting saved?

Jesus Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through Him!

I wanted to have a positive post with a scripture that both sides can agree on, in light of Chessman's effort and work to compile a comprehensive list.

Thank you Chessman.
 
JLB said:
Those who set their minds on the flesh. That is a willful act of those who are in Christ Jesus.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.


Unless you are saying that those who are in Christ, now have no choice or free will to choose??

The context is clear, those who are in Christ Jesus, are encouraged and admonished to make the choice to set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

To avoid being carnally minded, and to avoid walking in the lust of the flesh.

  • Do not walk according to the flesh...
  • Do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness...
  • Do not set your minds on the things of the flesh...
  • Do not be carnally minded...

All these commandments from the Holy Spirit through Paul are to those who are in Christ Jesus.


What your doctrine teaches is that the Church can completely disobey this commandments and live however they choose and still be saved at the appearing of Christ Jesus.


JLB
Click to expand...
when it comes to our decision to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, yes we gave up that part of our freewill.......We have been bought with a price. And ohhh what a price that was!

Loss of salvation doctrine teaches believers the wrong motivation. And it diminishes the "Complete" work of Christ on the Cross, it diminishes the Price he did pay for us, keeps the believer from the very basics of Grace, And robs Christ of His rightful Glory in the salvation of man. Our salvation is Christs victory, not ours.

Loss of salvation is creature credit and always will be.

eternal security is Creator credit and always will be.

Romans 8 37-39 NASB~~37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are included in created things.
 
gr8grace3 said:
when it comes to our decision to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, yes we gave up that part of our freewill.......We have been bought with a price. And ohhh what a price that was!

Loss of salvation doctrine teaches believers the wrong motivation. And it diminishes the "Complete" work of Christ on the Cross, it diminishes the Price he did pay for us, keeps the believer from the very basics of Grace, And robs Christ of His rightful Glory in the salvation of man. Our salvation is Christs victory, not ours.

Loss of salvation is creature credit and always will be.

eternal security is Creator credit and always will be.

Romans 8 37-39 NASB~~37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are included in created things.
Click to expand...

We did not give up our free will!

We exercised our free will to choose Christ, sir.

JLB
 
Obadiah said:
Unbelievable! 1000 posts in one thread! I didn't even think our system allowed that! :shock

I'll have to take a look at your PDF file when I get time later today. It sounds interesting.
Click to expand...
As a Moderator of this Thread (and the others too), I'm sure it gives a new meaning to "running the race", to you guys. I'm sure you're tired. But your efforts are appreciated and necessary. Ya'll have done a good job. Thank you!
 
LOL! Nah, not tired yet! I enjoy this place! Thanks for all you folks who contribute your thoughts and ideas to the discussions!
 
JLB said:
We did not give up our free will!

We exercised our free will to choose Christ, sir.

JLB
Click to expand...
I agree JLB, then He BOUGHT us with a price.

And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. Rev 5:9 NASB

You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. 1 Corinthians 7:23 NASB

If we can lose our salvation, then He didn't pay enough. And we have to pay the rest.

Added: I did go over my last post and can see how you took it the way you did.

Once we make the freewill decision to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, He buys us and seals us. A contract we can't get out of. That is about the only sense that we give up some of our volition. Living the Christian way of Life depends on our volitional response to the Spirit and His word.
 
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gr8grace3 said:
I agree JLB, then He BOUGHT us with a price.

And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. Rev 5:9 NASB

You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. 1 Corinthians 7:23 NASB

If we can lose our salvation, then He didn't pay enough. And we have to pay the rest.

Added: I did go over my last post and can see how you took it the way you did.

Once we make the freewill decision to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, He buys us and seals us. A contract we can't get out of. That is about the only sense that we give up some of our volition. Living the Christian way of Life depends on our volitional response to the Spirit and His word.
Click to expand...


Sorry Brother,

You clearly were mistaken about the "intellectual dishonesty" of the King James Version , with its clear reference to those who walk not in the flesh.

Those who walk in the flesh are clearly disobedient.

Those who live their lives gratifying the lustful desires of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-11


This phrase in Romans 8, fits perfectly with the context of the rest of Romans 8 as well as the letters that Paul wrote to the Gentile Churches, who had to be warned about falling back to there former behavior.


JLB
 
gr8grace3 said:
I agree JLB, then He BOUGHT us with a price.

And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. Rev 5:9 NASB

You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. 1 Corinthians 7:23 NASB

If we can lose our salvation, then He didn't pay enough. And we have to pay the rest.

Added: I did go over my last post and can see how you took it the way you did.

Once we make the freewill decision to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, He buys us and seals us. A contract we can't get out of. That is about the only sense that we give up some of our volition. Living the Christian way of Life depends on our volitional response to the Spirit and His word.
Click to expand...

So with this statement, will you now produce for us the scriptures that teach us we NO LONGER HAVE A FREE WILL?


I will be waiting, brother.


JLB
 
JLB said:
So with this statement, will you now produce for us the scriptures that teach us we NO LONGER HAVE A FREE WILL?


I will be waiting, brother.


JLB
Click to expand...
Sorry friend, I can't do that. I believe we have freewill, and the scripture plainly shows us that we do.
 
JLB said:
Sorry Brother,

You clearly were mistaken about the "intellectual dishonesty" of the King James Version , with its clear reference to those who walk not in the flesh.

Those who walk in the flesh are clearly disobedient.

Those who live their lives gratifying the lustful desires of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-11


This phrase in Romans 8, fits perfectly with the context of the rest of Romans 8 as well as the letters that Paul wrote to the Gentile Churches, who had to be warned about falling back to there former behavior.


JLB
Click to expand...
Rom 8:1 KJB~~There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

From early manuscripts and parchments we have found the KJV added," who walk not after the flesh,but after the Spirit."

Here are 3 examples of scholars using early manuscripts and parchments to provide evidence that it was added.

Center for Computer Analysis of Texts (CCAT)
Box 36 College Hall
University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA. 19104-6303
215/898-1597/5827/4917.
rom:8:1 ouden ara nun katakrima tois en christO iEsou
oudeis ara nun katakrima ho heis *PN* *PN*
A_NSN C D N_NSN RA_DPM P N_DSM N_DSM
.............................................................................................................
*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of ROM 8: 1 T/ord
oudeis 3762 neu adj nom s ------- nothing 1
ara 0686 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- therefore 2
vuv 3568 ---- adv --- -- ------- now 3
katakrima 2631 neu ---- nom s noun--- condemnation 4
o 3588 mas artl dat p ------- the 5
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 6
cristos 5547 mas ---- dat s noun--- Christ 7
insous 2424 mas ---- dat s noun--- Jesus 8
..................................................................................................................

The UBS4
gives its omission an “A” rating
(certain).

Can you provide me with Some evidence from scholars that use the early manuscripts, that say it was NOT added.
 
gr8grace3 said:
Rom 8:1 KJB~~There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

From early manuscripts and parchments we have found the KJV added," who walk not after the flesh,but after the Spirit."

Here are 3 examples of scholars using early manuscripts and parchments to provide evidence that it was added.

Center for Computer Analysis of Texts (CCAT)
Box 36 College Hall
University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA. 19104-6303
215/898-1597/5827/4917.
rom:8:1 ouden ara nun katakrima tois en christO iEsou
oudeis ara nun katakrima ho heis *PN* *PN*
A_NSN C D N_NSN RA_DPM P N_DSM N_DSM
.............................................................................................................
*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of ROM 8: 1 T/ord
oudeis 3762 neu adj nom s ------- nothing 1
ara 0686 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- therefore 2
vuv 3568 ---- adv --- -- ------- now 3
katakrima 2631 neu ---- nom s noun--- condemnation 4
o 3588 mas artl dat p ------- the 5
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 6
cristos 5547 mas ---- dat s noun--- Christ 7
insous 2424 mas ---- dat s noun--- Jesus 8
..................................................................................................................

The UBS4
gives its omission an “A” rating
(certain).

Can you provide me with Some evidence from scholars that use the early manuscripts, that say it was NOT added.
Click to expand...


You clearly were mistaken about the "intellectual dishonesty" of the King James Version , with its clear reference to those who walk not in the flesh.

Those who walk in the flesh are clearly disobedient.

Those who live their lives gratifying the lustful desires of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-11


This phrase in Romans 8, fits perfectly with the context of the rest of Romans 8 as well as the letters that Paul wrote to the Gentile Churches, who had to be warned about falling back to there former behavior.


JLB
 
gr8grace3 said:
Rom 8:1 KJB~~There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

From early manuscripts and parchments we have found the KJV added," who walk not after the flesh,but after the Spirit."

Here are 3 examples of scholars using early manuscripts and parchments to provide evidence that it was added.

Center for Computer Analysis of Texts (CCAT)
Box 36 College Hall
University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA. 19104-6303
215/898-1597/5827/4917.
rom:8:1 ouden ara nun katakrima tois en christO iEsou
oudeis ara nun katakrima ho heis *PN* *PN*
A_NSN C D N_NSN RA_DPM P N_DSM N_DSM
.............................................................................................................
*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of ROM 8: 1 T/ord
oudeis 3762 neu adj nom s ------- nothing 1
ara 0686 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- therefore 2
vuv 3568 ---- adv --- -- ------- now 3
katakrima 2631 neu ---- nom s noun--- condemnation 4
o 3588 mas artl dat p ------- the 5
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 6
cristos 5547 mas ---- dat s noun--- Christ 7
insous 2424 mas ---- dat s noun--- Jesus 8
..................................................................................................................

The UBS4
gives its omission an “A” rating
(certain).

Can you provide me with Some evidence from scholars that use the early manuscripts, that say it was NOT added.
Click to expand...

Who are the three scholars here with each of their evaluations of this verse?

JLB
 
JLB said:
Who are the three scholars here with each of their evaluations of this verse?

JLB
Click to expand...
There are many. Many Scholars instituted the work of the three works I posted.

Aland, Black, Metzger, Wikren, Martini, 1968. Kurt Aland, Matthew Black, Bruce Metzger, Allen Wikren, Carlo Martini, The Greek New Testament. 2nd edition. Stuttgart: United Bible Societies, 1968.

Barbara Aland

Ezra Abbot
Johannes Karavidopoulos
Aldus Manutius,
Henry Alford
Harry Tompkins Anderson
George W. Anderson and Debra E. Anderson......and many more.

It was a coordinated effort and each one came to the conclusion that I have posted more than once.

Can you provide me some evidence from scholars that study the early manuscripts that came to the conclusion that KJV did NOT add ," who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

In their coordinated effort their conclusion was~~

Center for Computer Analysis of Texts (CCAT)
Box 36 College Hall
University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA. 19104-6303
215/898-1597/5827/4917.
rom:8:1 ouden ara nun katakrima tois en christO iEsou
oudeis ara nun katakrima ho heis *PN* *PN*
A_NSN C D N_NSN RA_DPM P N_DSM N_DSM
.............................................................................................................
*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of ROM 8: 1 T/ord
oudeis 3762 neu adj nom s ------- nothing 1
ara 0686 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- therefore 2
vuv 3568 ---- adv --- -- ------- now 3
katakrima 2631 neu ---- nom s noun--- condemnation 4
o 3588 mas artl dat p ------- the 5
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 6
cristos 5547 mas ---- dat s noun--- Christ 7
insous 2424 mas ---- dat s noun--- Jesus 8
..................................................................................................................

The UBS4
gives its omission an “A” rating
(certain).
 
JLB said:
This phrase in Romans 8, fits perfectly with the context of the rest of Romans 8 as well as the letters that Paul wrote to the Gentile Churches, who had to be warned about falling back to there former behavior.


JLB
Click to expand...
Well the phrase in verse 1 KJV certainly fits with the phrase in verse 4.
But the real question for the Spirit filled believer is did the LEB get the capitalization of Spirit right in verse 6 right.

Romans 8:6 For the mindset of the flesh is death, but the mindset of the Spirit is life and peace,
 
chessman said:
Well the phrase in verse 1 KJV certainly fits with the phrase in verse 4.
But the real question for the Spirit filled believer is did the LEB get the capitalization of Spirit right in verse 6 right.

Romans 8:6 For the mindset of the flesh is death, but the mindset of the Spirit is life and peace,
Click to expand...

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
 
JLB said:
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Click to expand...
Friend, I would really appreciate your thoughts on this. Can an unsaved man live or walk according to the Spirit.
 
chessman said:
Well the phrase in verse 1 KJV certainly fits with the phrase in verse 4.
But the real question for the Spirit filled believer is did the LEB get the capitalization of Spirit right in verse 6 right.

Romans 8:6 For the mindset of the flesh is death, but the mindset of the Spirit is life and peace,
Click to expand...
I believe they Got it right Brother.
 
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