Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[jonahmano]

Yeah while your own neighbour in Christ has to starve to death.................

Ephesians 4:28
Viewing the King James Version.

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

And also why do I need prayer, bible reading and fellowship because they are options, I better choose to watch movies, go to malls and enjoy my life earning and earning and earning

You need prayer, bible reading and fellowship to grow as a SAVED person.

A Pastor teacher is very important also. God will give you one if you want the truth. A good teacher will really help us with being judgemental of other believers and our own self righteousness.[/QUOTE]

Where I am differing from you in that matter. We know God by faith and all these things we do only because we believe in Him and we want to know more of Him but only thing that hurts me is when you say they are optional.

I know the truth and also the devil's best ideas to keep prayer, worship, bible-reading and fellowship away from believers so that he can reign even on so called faith believers

 

[gr8grace3]

No one will be able to snatch them out of His hand!

Absolutely true.

There is no person big enough and no devil strong enough to take you away from the Lord.

However, you still have a free will and can choose to turn away and be enticed to follow other gods, or through the deceitfulness of sin become hardened against god and renounce Him.

Hopefully you can see the difference.


Again look at the context!

16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."


27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.


In the context of what Jesus is saying here, who are the sheep that Jesus is referring to that are His, that no one shall be able to snatch them out of His hand.

Jesus is referring to the foundation of His Church, which are His disciples that He Himself Discipled personally, the Apostles!

That is the context! Those are who He is referring to His Sheep.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12



JLB

Rom 8:37-39~~37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Me and my freewill is a created thing.

and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:28-30)

 

[jonahmano]

No one will be able to snatch them out of His hand!

Absolutely true.

There is no person big enough and no devil strong enough to take you away from the Lord.

However, you still have a free will and can choose to turn away and be enticed to follow other gods, or through the deceitfulness of sin become hardened against god and renounce Him.

Hopefully you can see the difference.


Again look at the context!

16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."


27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.


In the context of what Jesus is saying here, who are the sheep that Jesus is referring to that are His, that no one shall be able to snatch them out of His hand.

Jesus is referring to the foundation of His Church, which are His disciples that He Himself Discipled personally, the Apostles!

That is the context! Those are who He is referring to His Sheep.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12



JLB

Nicely put

 

[JLB]

For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith. 1John 5:4 NASB

Stop having faith, and you stop overcoming!

This is what we have been saying.

This is what you have rejected.


JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

jonahmano,

The devils best at blinding men from salvation, then goes on to blind believers from growing in the grace and knowledge of Our Lord.

If we never get salvation figured out, we will not grow in Grace and knowledge.

If we don't even know the very basics of "saved by grace" we are NOT going to grow in Grace.

Acts 16:31 is salvation for men. And it is that simple. This is what Satan( and the pride and arrogance of man) is a MASTER at disguising and counterfeiting.

 

[jonahmano]

jonahmano,

The devils best at blinding men from salvation, then goes on to blind believers from growing in the grace and knowledge of Our Lord.

If we never get salvation figured out, we will not grow in Grace and knowledge.

If we don't even know the very basics of "saved by grace" we are NOT going to grow in Grace.

Acts 16:31 is salvation for men. And it is that simple. This is what Satan( and the pride and arrogance of man) is a MASTER at disguising and counterfeiting.

Hahah what a silly logic. Please tell me in what way can a man know Christ's saving grace other than belief. Please give me examples. I know that you are a supporter of a grace preacher but does really salvation end with grace? I know that it's only by grace through faith but the tool of grace is used by the devil to weaken the army of God. We know very well that how the war in the heavenlies took twists and turn by Daniel's prayer. If we say that prayer, bible-reading and fellowship are options then we are digging our own wall to let Satan reign on us.

 

[gr8grace3]

Stop having faith, and you stop overcoming!

This is what we have been saying.

This is what you have rejected.


JLB

And still do. Its been asked, what verse clearly shows that a believer who stops having faith is Condemned, judged and thrown in the Lake of Fire?

Or specifically says," For this loss of faith you have lost your salvation."

Or specifically says," you have stopped overcoming and have lost your salvation."

 

[gr8grace3]

Hahah what a silly logic. Please tell me in what way can a man know Christ's saving grace other than belief. Please give me examples. I know that you are a supporter of a grace preacher but does really salvation end with grace? I know that it's only by grace through faith but the tool of grace is used by the devil to weaken the army of God. We know very well that how the war in the heavenlies took twists and turn by Daniel's prayer. If we say that prayer, bible-reading and fellowship are options then we are digging our own wall to let Satan reign on us.

There is NO other way to see Christs saving Grace, other than believing on Him.

Salvation starts with grace and ends with Grace.

Tell me please, since when has Grace become a bad word?

Do you not believe in Christ alone for your salvation?

 

[FreeGrace]

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Yes, it is about the saved. No where is Paul speaking of the unsaved there.

Could someone of the "loss of salvation" club please explain the meaning of v.14 and v.15, given the context from v.10.

Thank you.

 

[FreeGrace]

1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is not a OSAS passage.

Please explain what is lost and what is saved, from v.14-15 in that context.

Thank you.

 

[FreeGrace]

Don't be deceived. 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is NOT teaching that believers can live unforgiven, disobedient, even Christ rejecting lives and still expect to be saved, just minus any rewards for works of the Spirit.

So… what is it teaching, exactly???

Thank you.

 

[jonahmano]

There is NO other way to see Christs saving Grace, other than believing on Him.

Salvation starts with grace and ends with Grace.

Tell me please, since when has Grace become a bad word?

Do you not believe in Christ alone for your salvation?

Yeah man I'm praying to God, I'm worshipping Christ and I'm reading the bible to know Him more and to fellowship with Him please tell me how has grace become bad word for which I am doing something to please my God. Is pleasing God also a bad thing. Are doing these things make Grace a bad thing??

And also when I worship God, is God getting manifested in the open? When I read the bible am I not believing all things written in it by faith. Aren't my prayers to God are by faith. Is not Christ dwelling in my heart by faith. All these things are done by grace and faith then how can you separate these things as options for salvation.

 

[FreeGrace]

Only if you think plants don't need (designed for in fact) light was my post germane.

Your post was not germane because none of what you posted was cited by our Lord. Let's just stick with His parable, and not try to add what isn't pertinent to His point.

It's not "all about the condition of the soils".

In fact, it IS all about the condition of the soils. Which explains WHY there was no fruit in soils #2 and 3, and NO plant in soil #1. And WHY there was production in soil #4.

There's more to it than just the 'soils' (people) was my point. It contains Christ (The Light) and 'moisture' (The Holy Spirit) too.

Not. Jesus failed to mention "your points", so that's a good clue that they aren't germane to His point. I accept His points, not the points of others.

But, I certainly agree that it contains zero de-salvation. Some people (the anti-OSAS type) just go searching the Scriptures for the phrase "fall away" or "cast away", and when they find it they say; see you can loose your salvation.

But, Just exactly what did the thorn bushes in #3 'chock' the plants out of? (Water, soil or light?). Light.

Doesn't say that. All we know from the account is that the plants were choked out and therefore didn't produce fruit.

They were growing there first and grew up faster, blocking the sunlight to the young plants as weeds do.

OK

WRT #2:
What scorched the plants in soil #2 that "received the word (the Light) with joy"? To much light (affliction from the Word) before it's roots could sustain that amount of photosynthesis by supplying the plant with enough water to bear fruit.

Totally off the wall. The plants had no root because of moisture, not anything to do with light.

Also, WRT #3: 'chocked'

by the worries and riches and pleasures of life, and they do not bear fruit to maturity.​

1: pleasures of life (sins?)
2. riches/deceitfulness of wealth (sins?)
3. Worries/anxieties of the world (including worrying about loosing your salvation?)

OK. Except the word is 'choked', not 'chocked'.

Oh, and technically, soil #three did not produce fruit to maturity (grain/crop). It doesn't say it didn't produce any blooms/blossoms.

Correct.

 

[FreeGrace]

But OSAS says I do NOT have to be perfected in love to have confidence that I'll be saved on the Day of Judgment.

Actually, one has to have eternal life in order to live with God eternally. What verse says that eternal life can be annulled, cancelled, or whatever other words or phrase you may use to denote loss of salvation?

 

[FreeGrace]

How can you say the things mentioned are not necessary of salvation?

Now you're changing words. You were arguing about what is "necessary FOR salvation", and now it's necessary OF salvation. So, what are you arguing FOR?

If you say that then you are saying that those things have nothing to do with salvation.

None of the things you list will save you. They AREN'T necessary FOR salvation, but they ARE necessary for spiritual growth of the believer. That's the difference that you seem not to understand.

Let me ask you one thing, if a person doesn't have to do these things after they get saved then what else they can do????

You're still missing the boat here. These things are commanded FOR believers to do. But just not FOR salvation.

I'm not sure what you're asking. I don't know what you mean by "what else can they do".

 

[FreeGrace]

You need prayer, bible reading and fellowship to grow as a SAVED person.

Correct. Not in order to be saved.

 

[FreeGrace]

Stop having faith, and you stop overcoming!

This is what we have been saying.

This is what you have rejected.
JLB

Not true. The "overcoming" is in reference to obedience and faithfulness, which will be rewarded in time with blessings, and in eternity with eternal rewards.

But that isn't loss of salvation.

How does the anti-OSAS crowd view reward?

 

[jonahmano]

None of the things you list will save you. They AREN'T necessary FOR salvation, but they ARE necessary for spiritual growth of the believer. That's the difference that you seem not to understand.

So now Christ has become a commodity and not a person when you say it's necessary only for spiritaul growth. Brother these are not only necessary for spiritual growth but also to know Him personallly and there are no other ways where you can know Christ other than the things which I have mentioned. I don't think I have to remind you John 1 revealing what the Word is.

Paul never said I want to grow spirtually but he did say that I want to know Christ more and more and the only thing he wanted to know was Christ.

 

[DRS81]

JLB Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Take a look at Col 1:20. What do they mean by "through his blood, shed on the cross"?

 

[jonahmano]

Correct. Not in order to be saved.

I never said that we need prayer, bible-reading and fellowship in order to be saved. All I said is they can't be excluded. Simple logic when you read the bible how can you escape the truth where it's written clearly that By grace through faith you are saved. Why do you want to exclude things which bring Christ closer to you. Why do you want to make it as an option and compromise the sacrifices of the apostles and early believers who fought with their lives to preserve the word of God so that you can read it and known more of Him.