Jethro Bodine
Member
"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'" (Revelation 2:10-11 NASB)
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Losing Salvation after getting saved?
- Thread starter jonahmano
- Start date
Maybe God put in some people the seed of OSAS, and maybe God put in others the seed of NON-OSAS so we can be aware of scriptures we weren't aware of. Maybe debating is part of God's purpose to go deeper into his Word. Maybe that's why people debate year after year. Maybe the devil has nothing to do with it, maybe God WANTS us to debate. What do you think.
The only thing I am curious about is how a person can blatantly ignore what the scriptures so clearly say in favor of some preconceived idea that has no truth to it what so ever.
We overcome this world by our faith.
No faith. No overcoming.
Believe for a while, mean you eventually become an unbeliever.
Unbelievers are not saved.
Unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire.
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:7-8
When you stop believing, you are an unbeliever.
That's the reality.
JLB
Yet, there is no equivalence to overcoming the world and being saved. The overcomers represent believers who have experiential sanctification, or spiritual growth. Many believers have not become overcomers.[/QUOTE]
Here's the scripture you keep trying to explain away.
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly,unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:7-8
When you stop believing, you are an unbeliever.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
How can seeded plants have no roots? The problem with #2 soil is it would not allow the roots of what was planted in it to go down deep and be firm in that soil. That's why what was planted in it was easily uprooted. The truth planted in that type of soil is not retained to the end. #2 soil believer does not endure to the end in the truth because the truth has no firm root in that believer. That soil will be burned in the end because it does not bring forth useful vegetation (Hebrews 6:7-8 NASB).
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Jethro Bodine
Member
The interesting thing is that FreeGrace has previously acknowledged that the overcoming in these Revelation passages is the overcoming of actual deeds and works, not just positional overcoming:
My point being, FreeGrace has to not only acknowledge that those who don't overcome will not inherit life, but it is the lack of overcoming in regard to actual deeds that results in one going to the lake of fire (a.k.a not being saved). Double whammy for OSAS doctrine.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
"19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19 NASB)
Who is Jesus to you Jethro, if I may ask. I'd like to learn your position.
chessman
Member
He did say it. Do you think I just made up the scorching sunlight? If I were to say "my tomato plants died because they got too much sunlight, got scorched AND it didn't have enough moisture in the soil" would you think it died just because of moisture?
I add nothing. Mark said the sun scorched the plants. Why do you argue agaisnt that? Other than you missed it, and accused me of making it up, I can't think of a reason.
The reason it is important to me is that it was important to Mark. Plus, it's true.
The reason it's important to us both is that the parables point out the power of our Triune God to save the Jews.
Plus, it meshes with James I think.
I think this parable (Jesus' 1st) was heard by His mother and brothers as they arrived that very day at Capernum as He began to explain His Messiah-ship to the disciples and his family.
Matthew 12:46 ... 13:1. And while he was still speaking to the crowds, behold, his mother and brothers were standing there outside, desiring to speak to him. ... On that day Jesus went out of the house and was sitting by the sea ... [parable of the sower]. It seems improbable to me that his mother and James weren't there listening to Him.
Then we have James' letter:
Jas 1:11
For the sun rises with its burning heat and dries up the grass, and its flower falls off, and the beauty of its appearance is lost. So also the rich person in his pursuits will wither away.
[not necessarily be un-saved, but wither away.]
I think the rocky soil represents the Jews that wouldn't except Jesus was the Messiah. They were given the word (seeded) yet hadn't been given enough root (moisture/Holy Spirit) so they couldn't process Jesus of Nazareth (the light of the world) as the Messiah (kind of like James and Saul, etc., pre-Easter). James, transformed post-Easter says this:
James 1:1-4 James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes in the dispersion. Greetings! Consider it all joy, my brothers, whenever you encounter various trials, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking in nothing. [Seed, Roots, sunlight and good soil, All necessary for the perfect effect and complete maturity]
James 1:17-18 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above (think gift of the Holy Spirit and Messiah), coming down from the Father of lights (Like sunlight), with whom there is no variation or shadow (think of the shading by the thorn bushes) of change. By his will he gave birth to us [seeded the soil producing plants] through the message of truth (The Word), so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.
I think only soil #1 is lost. 2-3 are the Jews that couldn't except Jesus as Messiah. They bore no fruit but did grow from seed to plants, but it never says they weren't "saved".
James 1:21 Therefore, putting aside all moral uncleanness [ such as riches, deceits of the world, the thorn plants spoken of] and wicked excess, welcome with humility the implanted message which is able to save your souls. [without necessarily bearing fruit, merely flowers]
If i'm right and James heard Jesus' parable first-hand and is modeling it, at times, through-out his letter, what then do we make of an "implanted message which is able to save your soul" spoken to the Jewish dispersion?
James 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit (moisture) is dead, so also faith without works is dead. [dead plants]
James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace among those who make peace.
James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the soil, being patient concerning it until it receives the early and late rains.
I do the same thing Jethro. How can a person blatantly ignore these dogmatic,clear,precise and indicative statements?
“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16
“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18
“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40
“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47
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Jethro Bodine
Member
The Son of God.
Ok, do you also believe that (1.) He is God in the flesh (2.) God deity (3.) and one with the Father.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Non-OSAS doesn't ignore them. It knows that the whole counsel of God says you must believe to the very end to have the promises attached to believing. And that believing can not be lip service only. We show who we have put our trust in by what we do.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yup.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes, I am born again, if that's what you're wondering. And I got born again by trusting in the blood of Christ to be the payment for my debt of punishment I owed for my sin, not by doing righteous deeds.
G'night, folks.
G'night, folks.
But you don't trust that blood to keep you saved? God loves you Jethro, he's not gonna forsake you.
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:8
This verse shows the lake of fire for unbelievers, not the loss of rewards.
JLB
one HAS to ignore them, if one thinks one can lose salvation.
What verses say that we have to trust in the blood of Christ to be the payment for our debt of punishment we owed for our sin?
Acts 16:31 says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. It was His Spiritual death that paid the Price.
He was still alive and had His Blood, when He said,"It is finished."
