Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[JLB]

But you don't trust that blood to keep you saved?

Our course he does.

You must continue to trust, believe and have faith in the blood of Jesus in order to continue to cleanse you of all unrighteousness, steadfast to the end.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

Our course he does.

You must continue to trust, believe and have faith in the blood of Jesus in order to continue to cleanse you of all unrighteousness, steadfast to the end.


JLB

Oh I agree, but if you don't it's loss of rewards not salvation.

 

[JLB]

Yup, and it's not talking about born again christians.
God loves you JLB, he's not gonna forsake you.
Trust in his blood my friend.
His blood is your blood now.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:7-8

It's talking about Christians, who believe for a while then turn away from Him, and who have become abominable, because they profess to know God, but in works they deny Him!

They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. Titus 1:16


JLB

 

[DRS81]

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:7-8

It's talking about Christians, who believe for a while then turn away from Him, and who have become abominable, because they profess to know God, but in works they deny Him!

Yeah, religious christians who are not born again will not overcome.

The second death will not hurt them.

God does not throw his own children into the lake of fire. Notice it says family here..

Eph 1:5 God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.

 

[JLB]

Yeah, religious christians who are not born again will not overcome.

The second death will not hurt them.

God does not throw his own children into the lake of fire. Notice it says family here..

Eph 1:5 God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:7-8

This has nothing to do with the loss of rewards.

Name one person or spirit that God did not create.

He is the Father of all spirits.

Every spirit that goes to hell is His family.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Rev 21:7-8


This has nothing to do with the loss of rewards.

Of course it doesn't, it has to do with their eternal state. Rev 21:7-8 is a vision given to John about those who will live on the New Earth and those who will be condemned. It's revealing the condition of the believer and nonbelievers eternal state. (Rev 21:7-8 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”)

BELIEVERS/BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS - Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
NONBELIEVERS/ATHEISTS/MUSLIMS ETC.. - But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

We are victorious through the blood of Christ JLB. When you confessed that Jesus was your Savior and God in the flesh, right then you were born into a new family, a heavenly and holy family. God doesn't just adopt you and then cast you out of this family, no. You were bought with a price tag JLB. Jesus didn't buy you with money, he bought you with his own blood that he shed on the cross. By accepting Jesus as you Savior, you are already considered victorious over death (through) the blood of Christ. (1 Cor 15:57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.) THROUGH Jesus Christ. THROUGH what he did on the cross for you.

Every spirit that goes to hell is His family.

This sentence doesn't make sense. Do what now??

Did you mean to say that, "Every spirit that goes to hell is from the (devil's family)??

Get some rest, talk to me tomorrow.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yet, there is no equivalence to overcoming the world and being saved. The overcomers represent believers who have experiential sanctification, or spiritual growth. Many believers have not become overcomers.

I need to quit. I read your stuff and I look like an amateur. Correct me along the way Brother.[/QUOTE]
Please don't. Your posts are very refreshing!

 

[FreeGrace]

"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'" (Revelation 2:10-11 NASB)

Another promise of eternal reward.

 

[FreeGrace]

The only thing I am curious about is how a person can blatantly ignore what the scriptures so clearly say in favor of some preconceived idea that has no truth to it what so ever.

I think the exact same thing towards your view!

We overcome this world by our faith.

The point of that verse is that we HAVE overcome the world, because of our faith in Christ, who Himself said that He HAD overcome the world. John was speaking of positional overcoming.

Believe for a while, mean you eventually become an unbeliever.

Why do you keep repeating this silliness? Once a believer, ALWAYS a child of God. The correct term is "apostate". The Bible never applies the word "unbeliever" to one who ceases to believe. So please use correct words.

Unbelievers are not saved.

Those who have believed cannot lose their salvation.

Unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire.

Because they DON'T have eternal life. All who have believed received eternal life.

And you haven't shown any passages where God cancels the gift of eternal life.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:7-8

Referring to those who never believed, and the kinds of sins they have committed.

When you stop believing, you are an unbeliever.

That's the reality.


JLB

No, that's UNreality. Apostate is the correct word.

 

[FreeGrace]

How can seeded plants have no roots?

You'll need to ask Jesus about that one. He was the One who told us that.

The problem with #2 soil is it would not allow the roots of what was planted in it to go down deep and be firm in that soil. That's why what was planted in it was easily uprooted. The truth planted in that type of soil is not retained to the end. #2 soil believer does not endure to the end in the truth because the truth has no firm root in that believer. That soil will be burned in the end because it does not bring forth useful vegetation (Hebrews 6:7-8 NASB).

Excuse me, but there was no burning in Jesus' parable. You're misusing Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

He did say it. Do you think I just made up the scorching sunlight? If I were to say "my tomato plants died because they got too much sunlight, got scorched AND it didn't have enough moisture in the soil" would you think it died just because of moisture?

I add nothing. Mark said the sun scorched the plants. Why do you argue agaisnt that? Other than you missed it, and accused me of making it up, I can't think of a reason.

If plants are well watered, they DON'T get scorched. They grow. Scorching occurs when there isn't enough water and they dry out.

However, I see no reason to continue in this direction. Let's just stick with Jesus' point: soils 2-4 produced plants (indicative of new life from the seed!) and that 2 of the soils didn't produce fruit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But you don't trust that blood to keep you saved?

Of course I do. Haven't you been paying attention? I'm the one saying you have to keep trusting in the blood to the very end to be saved by that blood on the Day of Wrath. That's what non-OSAS is all about.

 

[chessman]

If plants are well watered, they DON'T get scorched. They grow. Scorching occurs when there isn't enough water and they dry out.

Yep. As Mark records Jesus saying that the rocky soul plants were scorched by the sunlight. Yet the plants attempting to grow amongst the thorny plants were chocked out of sunlight.

However, I see no reason to continue in this direction.

okay. Then don't. However, when you state that sunlight is not germane to Jesus' parable or plant growth, you need to reconsider that assertion.

Let's just stick with Jesus' point: soils 2-4 produced plants (indicative of new life from the seed!) and that 2 of the soils didn't produce fruit.

Again, Jesus did point out the sunlight scorched #2 and the thorns chocked out #3. I'll author my posts, you author yours.

I personally think it's rather neat that seeds (The Word) are designed to lie dormant until watered by moisture (The Holy Spirit) then produce roots first that are vitally seeking more moisture that caused them to germinate AND shoots (the body of the plant) that grow upward out of the darkness of the cultivated soil prepared by the gardner (The Father) against the gravity of the world (Earth) seeking the sunlight (Jesus Christ) necessary for their production of fruit. It's all part of a system, pre-planned by Our triune God. But that's just me. You don't have to agree. But if you post that I'm in error in recognizing that sunlight is a part of God's system/parable, you should defend your claim better.

 

[JLB]

DRS81 said -

BELIEVERS/BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS - Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:7-8

This verse says those who overcome shall inherit all things...

DRS81 said -

NONBELIEVERS/ATHEISTS/MUSLIMS ETC..

Unbelievers are not overcomers...

An unbeliever is an unbeliever... A person who believes for a while, then no longer believes is an unbeliever.


Unless you are saying that a person who believes the Gospel message is not a believer.

The person who believes to the end and bears fruit, is just as saved during the same growth process as a person who believes for a while then falls away.

This difference is one continues to believe to the end.

The other one turns away from Christ, in the face of persecution or death.

This is just one of several examples of those who believe for a while or begin to live for the flesh and never repent or Blaspheme the Holy Spirit by calling Him the devil...

Those who believe for a while and fall away have become unbelievers.

What would you call someone who believes for a while then falls away?


JLB

 

[Edward]

What a merry go round this thread is, eh? A couple posters are building a doctrine out of a half dozen verses instead of the entire book of scriptures, not a good thing to do. The big problem I see with the OSAS view, is it takes away the fear of God from you.

Proverbs 3:7
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil...

JLB has given you guys a lot of good scriptures to refute your view. All of that 'well this is positional and that is experiential' is a load of...deception. The heart is wickedly deceptive above all things brothers, you guys should pray about this instead of trying to win a debate with it. wow.

 

[JLB]

Freegrace said -

The point of that verse is that we HAVE overcome the world, because of our faith in Christ, who Himself said that He HAD overcome the world. John was speaking of positional overcoming.

For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. 1 John 5:4

13 And the seeds on the rock are those who, when they hear, welcome the word with joy. Having no root, these believe for a while and depart in a time of testing. Luke 8:13

What about those who believe for a while, then depart in the face of persecution... these who depart and did not overcome because they fell away, departed, and are no longer believing.

When the world overcomes a person who believes and causes them to stop believing, then the person is not an overcomer but they themselves are overcome.

There is no victory in that scenario.


JLB

 

[JLB]

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20

Here is a warning from the Holy Spirit through James the brother of our Lord.

If a brother among you wanders from the truth...

Teaching a doctrine that causes others to wander from the truth and partake of an ungodly and carnal lifestyle, even denying the Lord will result in the death of the soul of the one who wanders.


Peter warned of these types...

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 2 Peter 2:1-2


I just don't think the Lord is pleased with those who teach His people that you can deny the Lord and still be saved.

If we deny Him, He also will deny us.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Of course I do. Haven't you been paying attention? I'm the one saying you have to keep trusting in the blood to the very end to be saved by that blood on the Day of Wrath. That's what non-OSAS is all about.

I think you misunderstand the "Blood of Christ". He HAS paid in full for ALL your sins. There isn't anything else that can be done. And God GAVE you eternal life when you believed, did He not?

Therefore, your basic position is that God simply discards any of His children who lose faith. There isn't anything in Scripture to indicate that.

 

[FreeGrace]

I personally think it's rather neat that seeds (The Word) are designed to lie dormant until watered by moisture (The Holy Spirit) then produce roots first that are vitally seeking more moisture that caused them to germinate AND shoots (the body of the plant) that grow upward out of the darkness of the cultivated soil prepared by the gardner (The Father) against the gravity of the world (Earth) seeking the sunlight (Jesus Christ) necessary for their production of fruit. It's all part of a system, pre-planned by Our triune God. But that's just me. You don't have to agree. But if you post that I'm in error in recognizing that sunlight is a part of God's system/parable, you should defend your claim better.

Jesus' point was that 2 of the 3 soils in which seeds became plants (indicating new life) didn't produce fruit. The plants represent believers.

 

[FreeGrace]

What a merry go round this thread is, eh? A couple posters are building a doctrine out of a half dozen verses instead of the entire book of scriptures, not a good thing to do.

Where do you get a half dozen? And, none of the verses provided by the anti-OSASers actually SAY what y'all think they mean. So, at the very least, 6 is FAR better than ZERO.

The big problem I see with the OSAS view, is it takes away the fear of God from you.

Actually, when properly understood, it will put the fear God INTO you. Unless one's view of God is so poor that they think His ability to "spank" His children doesn't amount to much. Or one has a completely erroneous view of eternal reward.

What do you do with all (FAR more than 6) the "reward" passages anyway?

JLB has given you guys a lot of good scriptures to refute your view.

I will repeat: none of the anti-OSASers have provided any verse that actually SAYS what y'all keep claiming.

All of that 'well this is positional and that is experiential' is a load of…deception.

This statement is quite illustrative of a believer who does not understand the Word and cannot rightly divide the Word of Truth.

The heart is wickedly deceptive above all things brothers, you guys should pray about this instead of trying to win a debate with it. wow.

Who's trying to win a debate? OSAS is Scriptural, yet y'all anti-OSASers stubbornly refuse to even try to understand it.

Your argument is basically that God simply discards His children who lose faith. There is NO grace in that. Jesus Christ died for ALL sin, which includes those who never believe. And He gives ETERNAL LIFE WHEN one believes.

So you're arguing that God sends some of His children who He gave ETERNAL LIFE to, to the second DEATH. That makes utterly no sense at all.

And none of the anti-OSASers have even attempted to 'splain that one.