Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[FreeGrace]

Because they commit the one sin that the blood of Christ can't cover--the sin of rejecting the blood of Christ.

Where in the Bible do you find such a teaching? Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was the only sin that was unforgiven, and that was for a different time frame. But I forget, the anti-OSASers don't differentiate much in Scripture.

In fact, no one is capable of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit today. One had to be living when Jesus was on earth.

What provision for forgiveness has God made available for the sin of rejecting the forgiveness of God?

Christ paid the penalty for that sin.

That's why there is no sacrifice remaining for that sin.

Christ paid the ENTIRE sin debt of humanity. That's why there is no sacrifice remaining for that or any other sin. Remember, the Jewish believers, the audience for the book of Hebrews, had been turning back to the law and sacrifice, and the author was addressing that problem.

God has not provided another sacrifice that covers rejecting the one and only sacrifice for sin there is--Jesus Christ.

Correct. Your point?

It's the sin of calling the Holy Spirit who testifies about the forgiveness of sin through the Son a liar and a worker of the Devil by not believing what the Spirit says.

No, it is not. Apparently you've not read the passage that mentions blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I would recommend it.

 

[JLB]

Rather Whom do you believe in!

. . . in God because of His completed work in and through the LORD Jesus Christ - from His dwelling among us to His sending the Holy Spirit.

This has nothing to do with my question.

What part does a person play in the salvation of their soul?

Jesus paid the price for all the world, however one must do something to appropriate the finished work of the cross, into their life.

What must you do to be saved?


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
Please answer: Since all sin has been paid for, why would the Father discard those He has given eternal life to? You haven't answered that yet. Please do.

Failure to address this will demonstrate an inability to have an answer.

Truth ALWAYS has an answer for false doctrine. Always. I've always answered yours and other's questions and points. I've not had the same courtesy.

Please answer: If all sin has been paid for the why are we told to confess our sins to be forgiven.

Excuse me, but why are you NOT addressing my questions to you? So, why should I bother answering ALL your questions? When are you going to face my questions? btw, I've already addressed your question here. Didn't you read it?

The way your sins are forgiven when you are first saved, is the way your sins will continue to be forgiven throughout your life.

So you think 1 Jn 1:9 is for unbelievers???? Why are believers (audience of John's epistle) told to confess their sin?

Your doctrine teaches people that their is no need for this, as all your sins that you ever commit are already forgiven when you are first saved.

Can you see the difference?

My teaching is NOT what you are claiming here. 1 Jn 1:9 is for fellowship. As we "walk through life" our "feet" get dirty. Jesus had to teach ol' rock-head (Peter) about this in Jn 13. Remember when Jesus washed the feet of the disciples? that was no ordinance, or ritual. It was totally practical, for in that day, people used the same roads and paths that the animals did. And even after someone had taken a bath, their feet would get "dirty" from walking on those roads. So that's why people had their feet washed when they entered someone's home. Who wants all that dung tracked in?????

Remember that Peter didn't want Jesus to do such a humbling act, which was normally done by the lowliest servant. But when Jesus told him that He had to do it, Peter continued to refuse (the rock-head), so that Jesus had to explain that even though all of them were already clean (saved), except Judas, they all still needed their feet cleaned.

He was making a point about daily or on-going confession of sin, because, just as those people in that day continued to get their feet "dirty" even though they had bathed and were otherwise clean, so also believers, who are saved, need to continue to "wash our feet" by confession of sin. Why? For fellowship, which is the point of 1 Jn 1.

His shed blood paid for all the sins of everyone, however you must still confess your sin to Him, to access the forgiveness you are seeking.

Our feet keep getting dirty as we "walk through life". That's why believers are commanded to confess their sin.

Here is the scary part, OSAS folks see no need to confess there sins or repent because they have been taught that there is no need for such action.JLB

Such believers are absolutely wrong! They have ignored the whole meaning and purpose of not only 1 Jn 1:1-9, but also John 13.

Just as the anti-OsASers fail to properly discern Scripture. Your errors are just as wrong as theirs!

 

[JLB]

• What the scripture says is you need to walk in the light as He is in the light, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

What OSAS doctrine says is there is no need to walk in the light, because Jesus has forgiven all our sins that we will ever commit.

• What the scripture says is IF you confess your sins He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins.

What OSAS doctrine says is there is no need to confess your sins, because He has forgiven all your sins you will ever commit.

• What the scripture says, he who does the will of God abides forever.

What OSAS doctrine says is there is no need to do God's will or obey Him, or be led by the Spirit, or learn to practice righteousness, because all your sins that you will ever commit are already forgiven, even the sin of denying the Lord.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

This has nothing to do with my question.

What part does a person play in the salvation of their soul?

None at all.

Jesus paid the price for all the world, however one must do something to appropriate the finished work of the cross, into their life.

Simply receive the free gift. How can that be considered "doing one's part". Or, how does receiving a gift have any influence on the Giver of the gift in any way? By the time the gift is offered, the Giver has already done all there is regarding the gift. All man can do is take it. Receive it. Man has nothing to do with God's gift. He purchased AND wrapped the gift up. Man did nothing regarding the gift. That's what is meant by God doing it all and man doing nothing.

What must you do to be saved?JLB

Simply to believe in a point in time in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you WILL BE saved. That is a promise, if you missed it.

Your view ignores or rejects the meaning of the aorist tense. I would suggest the anti-OSASers do some research on it.

If every verse on believing was in the present tense, you might just have a point. As it is, you don't have one.

 

[FreeGrace]

• What the scripture says is you need to walk in the light as He is in the light, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

What OSAS doctrine says is there is no need to walk in the light, because Jesus has forgiven all our sins that we will ever commit.

Why are you afraid to deal with what I've said? You've fixated on what you've heard from others. I've given you what the Bible says about it. Please deal with my points and quit citing what others may say. At this point, I suspect you don't have any answers for my points, and therefore ignore them.

Remember, truth has an answer for every question, and truth cannot be refuted. I am not seeing my questions being answered generally. Oh, maybe a few, but most have been ignored. I suspect I know why.

 

[JLB]

Freegrace said -

So you think 1 Jn 1:9 is for unbelievers???? Why are believers (audience of John's epistle) told to confess their sin?

Im the one who says the letters of Paul and revelation and the private teachings of Jesus to His disciples are addressed to believers.

It's you who keep denying this and saying they are to unbelievers.

You are the one who says their is nothing at all for a believer to do with the precious salvation he has been given.

You are the one who says Jesus paid for all the sins you will ever commit so their is nothing we can do to lose our salvation.


If their is nothing we can do to lose our salvation then why does the scripture say:

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-20


Do you think Paul wrote this letter to a bunch of unbelievers?


1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), 2 and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia: Galatians 1:1-2


You tried to say that not inheriting the kingdom for about rewards!

Then you were shown 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Born again Christians who do not inherit the kingdom because they practice the works of the flesh and don't repent will not inherit the kingdom.


Would you like to see the words these born again Christians who practice the works of the flesh and never repent will hear?


All you people have done is deny what the scriptures say, with things like that doesn't mean that, or that's a bad translation...

Or my personal favorite - That was for the church of Israel...

You have no explanation what so ever for the believe basic irrefutable words of Jesus.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

You have no answer at all for this verse from Jesus.

A believer who stops believing is an unbeliever.

Unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire.

Believe for a while means they are saved for a while.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Why are you afraid to deal with what I've said? You've fixated on what you've heard from others. I've given you what the Bible says about it. Please deal with my points and quit citing what others may say. At this point, I suspect you don't have any answers for my points, and therefore ignore them.

Remember, truth has an answer for every question, and truth cannot be refuted. I am not seeing my questions being answered generally. Oh, maybe a few, but most have been ignored. I suspect I know why.

Others?

You mean the Apostle John.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Believe for a while means they are saved for a while.

Unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Why are you afraid to deal with what I've said? You've fixated on what you've heard from others. I've given you what the Bible says about it. Please deal with my points and quit citing what others may say. At this point, I suspect you don't have any answers for my points, and therefore ignore them.

Remember, truth has an answer for every question, and truth cannot be refuted. I am not seeing my questions being answered generally. Oh, maybe a few, but most have been ignored. I suspect I know why.

Ive answered each and every one of your points more that once.

I quote what the scriptures says, you quote what you have been taught by others which causes you to resist the plain words.

but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Hebrews 3:6

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

IF means you yourself are required to do something...

If you want to continue being His house

If you want to become a partaker of Christ...

If you want to remain reconciled to God, from whom you were alienated through wicked works.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Im the one who says the letters of Paul and revelation and the private teachings of Jesus to His disciples are addressed to believers.

It's you who keep denying this and saying they are to unbelievers.

Are you kidding???! This is what your response was to:
Freegrace said -

So you think 1 Jn 1:9 is for unbelievers???? Why are believers (audience of John's epistle) told to confess their sin?

When are you going to start paying attention and actually read my posts???

You are the one who says their is nothing at all for a believer to do with the precious salvation he has been given.

Please find the post # and post it, (Edited, ToS 2.4, abusive. Obadiah)

You are the one who says Jesus paid for all the sins you will ever commit so their is nothing we can do to lose our salvation.

Which has nothing to do with what was just said above.

If their is nothing we can do to lose our salvation then why does the scripture say:

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-20

(Edited, ToS 2.4, abusive. Obadiah) To inherit the kingdom, WHEN works are involved, or the avoidance of sin, refers to ETERNAL REWARDS, never to salvation.

Do you think Paul wrote this letter to a bunch of unbelievers?

Of course not. I hope you are getting this. He wrote his warnings of LOSS of ETERNAL REWARD to believers.

1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), 2 and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia: Galatians 1:1-2

You tried to say that not inheriting the kingdom for about rewards!

I'll continue to repeat myself; inheriting the kingndom is about reward in eternity.

Then you were shown 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

What is this based on? If no works or avoidance of sin is involved, then it IS about salvation.

It takes discernment, my brother.

Born again Christians who do not inherit the kingdom because they practice the works of the flesh and don't repent will not inherit the kingdom.

Of course. That's always been my position. Those believers who practice the works of the flesh will NOT inherit the kingdom, meaning they will lose out on reward.

Please explain this verse: 2 Jn 8 - Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.


Would you like to see the words these born again Christians who practice the works of the flesh and never repent will hear?

You have no explanation what so ever for the believe basic irrefutable words of Jesus.

Clearly you have not been paying any attention to my posts. At least read them before you post (Edited, ToS 2.4, Obadiah).

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

You have no answer at all for this verse from Jesus.

Yes, but you've repeatedly failed to read my answer. The "falling away" is from belief, not salvation. There; I've just said it AGAIN. (Edited, ToS 2.4, abusive. Obadiah)

A believer who stops believing is an unbeliever.

No. He is an apostate. That is a Biblical word. But only those who know the meaning of the word understand it.

Unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire.

Yep. They never received the gift of eternal life.

Believe for a while means they are saved for a while.

Absolutely ZERO evidence for this from Scripture. You're making claims that you cannot support.

 

[FreeGrace]

Others?

This is what I said, in response to your frequent citing of "OSAS doctrine", as if everyone who believes in OSAS is fully on board with what you keep claiming is "OSAS doctrine".

You mean the Apostle John.

No, I was referring to those you keep quoting who believe in "OSAS doctrine", much of which I've totally disagreed with, but apparently you keep missing.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Believe for a while means they are saved for a while.

You are free to keep repeating your error, but it won't suddenly become truth. To believe for a while just means they have believed for a while and then cease to believe. They fell away from their faith. Not that difficult to understand.

Unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire.

Yes, they do. They never received eternal life.

When are you going to explain from Scripture that one who POSSESSES eternal life has it taken away?


JLB[/QUOTE]

 

[FreeGrace]

Ive answered each and every one of your points more that once.

That is totally untrue. Just scroll back through all the posts and count how many times I've included my questions or points and your post was totally in a different direction and didn't bother to deal with anything I posted.

Most of the time you've "answered" my questions with completely unrelated questions. I call that a huge dodge.

I quote what the scriptures says, you quote what you have been taught by others which causes you to resist the plain words.

I've also quoted many verses, and you've just ignored them all. I, otoh, have exegeted YOUR verses, which you've never bothered to refute.

IF means you yourself are required to do something...

If you want to continue being His house

If you want to become a partaker of Christ...

If you want to remain reconciled to God, from whom you were alienated through wicked works.

So? If what, exactly? And then, then what, exactly? Apparently you haven't been paying attention to the verses you quote just as you've ignored my posts.

I've exegeted Col 1:21-23 already. And you ignored it. When are you going to actually exegete any of the verses you quote?

Col 1:21-23 isn't about getting or staying saved. It's about God presenting His children "holy and blameless", but ONLY IF they continue in the faith.

iow, if His children don't continue in the faith, He cannot present them "holy and blameless".

Now, how can you refute that?

 

[Gregg]

What part does a person play in the salvation of their soul?

Man does not play a part in the salvation of his soul after he is born again. God saves us and sustains our salvation.

Jesus paid the price for all the world, however one must do something to appropriate the finished work of the cross, into their life.

Man does not appropriate . . . into their life. God appropriates.

What must you do to be saved?

'Believe [aorist active imperative] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved [future passive indicative]' (Act 16:31 LITV).

This verse says "believe": aor. act. imp. [non-durative] - action based upon a fact at that moment without emphasis upon continuing.
This verse says we "will be saved": passive voice - the action is by God and not man.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The plants represent believers.

Actually, the soil is the person upon whom the seed is sown.

20 "...on whom seed was sown..." (Matthew 13:20 NASB)

But I bet you have a way to make it so the soil isn't really the person.

 

[JLB]

Freegrace said -

How many times would you like me to repeat the truth to you? To inherit the kingdom, WHEN works are involved, or the avoidance of sin, refers to ETERNAL REWARDS, never to salvation.

You have been clearly shown that inheriting the kingdom is a SALVATION ISSUE and not a rewards issue.

Those who don't inherit the kingdom are sentenced to the fires of hell.

Those who inherit the kingdom, hear these words:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Those who don't inherit the kingdom, will hear these words:

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


There are two groups of people who are standing before Jesus, on judgement Day:

Those who inherit the kingdom, and those who don't!

Those who don't inherit the kingdom will be sentenced to hell.


Those Christian's that Paul warned in his letter to the Galatians, were warned they would not inherit the kingdom, which has everything to do with losing their salvation and being sentenced to hell.

This is exactly what Jesus said to His disciples on the mount of transfiguration.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51

This is just one of many many post's that show that OSAS to be a fallible doctrine, at best.

If you have any idea what the phrase cut them in two means, you would that term can ONLY be applied to those IN COVENANT RELATIONSHIP, and is a term assigned to covenant breakers!

One has to be in covenant with Jesus, in order to break covenant.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...none of the verses provided by the anti-OSASers actually SAY what y'all think they mean.

This is why OSAS has no credibility to me. It tells us that plain verses of scripture don't really mean what they plainly say. Some years ago I got called on the carpet by someone about doing this to scripture and I had to honestly admit to myself that they were right and that I was doing that.

I have since repented of doing that self serving work of deceit. When I did that I enjoyed a growth spurt of Christian knowledge because I then had a pliable, teachable heart and mind that was no longer resisting valuable knowledge of God when it conflicted with my predetermined, self serving agenda.

 

[JLB]

This is why OSAS has no credibility to me. It tells us that plain verses of scripture don't really mean what they plainly say. Some years ago I got called on the carpet by someone about doing this to scripture and I had to honestly admit to myself that they were right and that I was doing that.

I have since repented of doing that self serving work of deceit. When I did that I enjoyed a growth spurt of Christian knowledge because I then had a pliable, teachable heart and mind that was no longer resisting valuable knowledge of God when it conflicted with my predetermined, self serving agenda.

Great word Brother!

It's frightening to me personally, to think of all the people who have been taught this doctrine that has the Lord's children believing that they can live however they want, and even deny The Lord in a time of testing or persecution, and think that they are still going to inherit the kingdom of God on the day of judgement.

I would hate to be in the shoes of those who teach this and lead so many astray.

1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2 Timothy 4:1-3


JLB

 

[DRS81]

Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.

 

[jonahmano]

Man does not play a part in the salvation of his soul after he is born again. God saves us and sustains our salvation.

So then what is the role of a man then? Why does God say I have placed you life and death.... The way you put things it means that we have to simply sit and do nothing

Man does not appropriate . . . into their life. God appropriates.

Why does bible say Offer your body as a living sacrifices holy and acceptable to God. Does also God appropriate that. If what you say was real then Christian living would have been easiest of all but that's not the reality.

Man does not play a part in the salvation of his soul after he is born again. God saves us and sustains our salvation.

So then what is the role of a man then? Why does God say I have placed before you life and death.... The way you put things it means that we have to simply sit and do nothing

'Believe [aorist active imperative] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved [future passive indicative]' (Act 16:31 LITV).

This verse says "believe": aor. act. imp. [non-durative] - action based upon a fact at that moment without emphasis upon continuing.
This verse says we "will be saved": passive voice - the action is by God and not man.

Great explanation. there is also another sentence there you and your household will be saved. Please tell me how can the whole household of a family gets saved when only one person believes in Christ Jesus?? It's only when the other household of the family gets to know who Jesus is and it's not automatic. So your logic of just believe and get saved is demolished

 

[FreeGrace]

Actually, the soil is the person upon whom the seed is sown.

20 "...on whom seed was sown..." (Matthew 13:20 NASB)

But I bet you have a way to make it so the soil isn't really the person.

You'd lose that bet. Thanks for the pointer. Yes, the soil is the person. And the plant represents new life from the seed, which is God's Word. So, therefore, we se 3 believers in the parable.