Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[FreeGrace]

You have been clearly shown that inheriting the kingdom is a SALVATION ISSUE and not a rewards issue.

I'm getting tired of this. You have NOT shown any such thing. All you've done is make claims that are only opinion or assumption. What verse have you exegeted?

Those who don't inherit the kingdom are sentenced to the fires of hell.

NO verse says that. Your opinion is trumped by the Word of God.

Those who inherit the kingdom, hear these words:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

(Edited, ToS 2.4, unnecessary belittling comment. Obadiah) There are 2 kinds of inheritance in Scripture. One is based on being a child of God.
Gal 4:6,7 - 6Because you are sons,God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

We know HOW we become "sons of God", which is by faith (Jn 1:12, Gal 4:1), so you may cease all (all those claims) about fallen angels being the "sons of God". In the sense of direct creation, yes, they are. But the Bible speaks of those who believe in Christ for salvation as being sons of God who are heirs. There is zero mention of any angel inheriting anything.

Now, there is another kind of inheritance, which is based upon a lifestyle of obedience and faithfulness, the lack of which will result in loss of this kind of inheritance. 1 Cor 6, Eph 5 and Gal 5 speak of this kind of inheritance.

Rom 8:17 sums up the 2 kinds of inheritance:
and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also beglorified with Him.

As children of God, we are heirs also. However, the verse is clear that to be a "co-heir" with Christ we must INDEED suffer with Him. Paul said it another way to Timothy, "IF we endure, we WILL reign (co-heir) with Him".

Therefore, all who have believed in Christ will be in heaven with God, as heirs. But only those faithful and obedient children will actually reign with Christ.

Those who don't inherit the kingdom, will hear these words:

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

These are those who have never believed and you haven't (because you can't) prove otherwise.

There are two groups of people who are standing before Jesus, on judgement Day:
Those who inherit the kingdom, and those who don't!
Those who don't inherit the kingdom will be sentenced to hell.

Hopefully, (Edited, ToS 2.4, belittling. Obadiah) you'll be able to see how (wrong) your claim is here.

Those Christian's that Paul warned in his letter to the Galatians, were warned they would not inherit the kingdom, which has everything to do with losing their salvation and being sentenced to hell.

See above. I've used Scripture to support my claim. All you've done is quote Scripture and make claims.

 

[FreeGrace]

This is why OSAS has no credibility to me. It tells us that plain verses of scripture don't really mean what they plainly say.

The problem that you're not seeing is that none of the verses that you anti-OSASers keep quoting actually SAY what you keep claiming. It does take some discernment to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Your side fails to understand the 2 kings of inheritance, which messes up your understanding of Scripture. It's impossible to have a rational discussion when one side misunderstands so much.

Some years ago I got called on the carpet by someone about doing this to scripture and I had to honestly admit to myself that they were right and that I was doing that.

You're still doing that.

I have since repented of doing that self serving work of deceit. When I did that I enjoyed a growth spurt of Christian knowledge because I then had a pliable, teachable heart and mind that was no longer resisting valuable knowledge of God when it conflicted with my predetermined, self serving agenda.

Your view has not been proven from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

So then what is the role of a man then? Why does God say I have placed you life and death.... The way you put things it means that we have to simply sit and do nothing

Please quit misunderstanding the posts of others.

First, God never said, "I have placed you life and death". He did say, "I have set BEFORE you life and death"
Deut 30:15, 19. God is offering 2 choices to the Jews, life or death. They choose. That does not help God in any way, so in that way, man has no part. As I said before, receiving a gift does not help the Giver in preparing the gift. When the Giver offers the gift, it is already COMPLETE, so the giftee has no part in the gift. All he can do it receive it.

 

[JLB]

4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"? 6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble." 7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded...Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 4:4-8, 5:19-20

James is clearly calling these Christians, Idolaters!

This term adulterer was a term the Lord assigned to His Covenant people who would go and serve other gods.

8 Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also. 9 So it came to pass, through her casual harlotry, that she defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and trees. Jeremiah 3:8-9

The Lord pleaded with His people to turn back to Him, and repent... until the time He said enough! And He would issue her a certificate of Divorce.

The term adulterer and adulteresses is a reference to idolatry, friendship with the world.

James rebuked the Christians in order to get them to turn back to God.

His final words in his letter, should be an Anthem for us today in America.

These words were spoken to Christians who were committing adultery with the world.

if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.


If we love God and love His people, we should do our best to turn back those who have wandered from the truth...in doing this act, we will cover a multitude of sins, which is love language.

For love covers a multitude of sins.

...save a soul from death

We will all die a natural death, so this is a clear reference to eternal death in the fires of hell.


Let's just cross reference what the fate is of those who are idolaters.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:8

...he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death!


JLB

 

[white hamster]

Interesting question. If I've read the passages on this right, God knows those who he will call to find their way to Christ Jesus. Salvation is a gift of grace from God. The sheep whom God calls know Jesus and he knows their name.
That tells me that God knew everything about the sheep whom he would afford his grace before hand. And when Jesus says no one will snatch those who are saved from his hand I don't think anyone whom God put there by his divine eternal grace filled choice can demonstrate a will to leave that God wouldn't have foresaw. And he wouldn't call them if he knew they were going to be ungrateful and throw away the Gift.

 

[Gary]

And he wouldn't call them if he knew they were going to be ungrateful and throw away the Gift.

Matthew 22
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

.

 

[white hamster]

Exactly my point.

 

[Gregg]

So then what is the role of a man then? Why does God say I have placed you life and death.... The way you put things it means that we have to simply sit and do nothing

Why does bible say Offer your body as a living sacrifices holy and acceptable to God. Does also God appropriate that. If what you say was real then Christian living would have been easiest of all but that's not the reality.

So then what is the role of a man then? Why does God say I have placed before you life and death.... The way you put things it means that we have to simply sit and do nothing

Great explanation. there is also another sentence there you and your household will be saved. Please tell me how can the whole household of a family gets saved when only one person believes in Christ Jesus?? It's only when the other household of the family gets to know who Jesus is and it's not automatic. So your logic of just believe and get saved is demolished

You greatly mis-characterize the Gospel, and the responsibilities of those in Christ. Your questions have already been answered in detail.

 

[JLB]

I'm getting tired of this. You have NOT shown any such thing. All you've done is make claims that are only opinion or assumption. What verse have you exegeted?


NO verse says that. Your opinion is trumped by the Word of God.


OK, time again for some remedial teaching. There are 2 kinds of inheritance in Scripture. One is based on being a child of God.
Gal 4:6,7 - 6Because you are sons,God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

We know HOW we become "sons of God", which is by faith (Jn 1:12, Gal 4:1), so you may cease all that nonsense about fallen angels being the "sons of God". In the sense of direct creation, yes, they are. But the Bible speaks of those who believe in Christ for salvation as being sons of God who are heirs. There is zero mention of any angel inheriting anything.

Now, there is another kind of inheritance, which is based upon a lifestyle of obedience and faithfulness, the lack of which will result in loss of this kind of inheritance. 1 Cor 6, Eph 5 and Gal 5 speak of this kind of inheritance.

Rom 8:17 sums up the 2 kinds of inheritance:
and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also beglorified with Him.

As children of God, we are heirs also. However, the verse is clear that to be a "co-heir" with Christ we must INDEED suffer with Him. Paul said it another way to Timothy, "IF we endure, we WILL reign (co-heir) with Him".

Therefore, all who have believed in Christ will be in heaven with God, as heirs. But only those faithful and obedient children will actually reign with Christ.


These are those who have never believed and you haven't (because you can't) prove otherwise.


Hopefully, with the remedial teaching that I've just provided, you'll be able to see how silly your claim is here.


See above. I've used Scripture to support my claim. All you've done is quote Scripture and make claims.

Brother there are 2 sets of people standing before Jesus Christ when He returns:

One group inherits the kingdom.

The other group does not.

Those that do not inherit the kingdom are sentenced to the everlasting fires of hell.

That's it.

No explaining away these verse's.

Inherit the kingdom or Hell.

Paul stated that those Christians who practice the works of the flesh WIL NOT, WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM.


You sir (Edited, ToS 2.4, personal insult. Obadiah) resist what the scripture plainly teach.

Inheriting the kingdom means one thing - everlasting life with God.

Not inheriting the kingdom means one thing - everlasting punishment in hell apart from God.


No where in scripture is the term inherit the kingdom used to signify rewards,


In the places this phrase is listed, it only means eternal life with Jesus Christ.


JLB

 

[jonahmano]

We must look all these things in the totality of the scriptures. And when we do that we understand that salvation is something more than belief. If it was just belief then surely the early church wouldn't have suffered so much persecution. They would have led a easy go life escaping persecution and being silent believers without making any noise but that was not the case. The early saints are the fine example what it means to become the sons of God. If it was only belief then God would have forgiven them even if the saints would have denied Christ when the sword was on the neck because God looks into the heart of a man.

But I believe looking at all the scriptures if you guys say that old testament is something to do with law then I will from Matthew to Revelation when the whole bible is read, looking into the totality of the scriptures, I believe that salvation is something more than belief where God's Grace and our faith is the first and prominent step to become the children of God and then comes attitude of obedience to His Word.

 

[Gregg]

'Believe [aorist active imperative] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved [future passive indicative]' (Act 16:31 LITV).

This verse says "believe": aor. act. imp. [non-durative] - action based upon a fact at that moment without emphasis upon continuing.
This verse says we "will be saved": passive voice - the action is by God and not man.

to the non-OSAS'ers,

Why not answer or argue against the post above? Are you ignoring it because it disagrees with non-OSAS doctrine?

Acts 16:31 presents a massive hole in your doctrine.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And he wouldn't call them if he knew they were going to be ungrateful and throw away the Gift.

That's not what Jesus taught in the parable of the unmerciful servant in Matthew 18:23-35 NASB. In that parable--which Jesus said illustrates how the kingdom is--the king really did have mercy on the servant because he begged him to. But later, when the king saw that the servant was an ingrate he withdrew his mercy and reinstated his debt. Jesus said that the Heavenly Father will treat each of us the same way who does what the servant in the parable did.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

to the non-OSAS'ers,

Why not answer or argue against the post above? Are you ignoring it because it disagrees with non-OSAS doctrine?

Acts 16:31 presents a massive hole in your doctrine.

How many times do we have to tell you that we believe that you are saved when you first believe. The problem is you have been indoctrinated to automatically hear the word 'saved' as meaning irreversibly saved. Non-OSAS simply says you are saved right when you believe, but that you must continue to believe to not lose what you presently have, and what is yet to come. We say it because the plain words of the Bible say that.

 

[Gregg]

You sir have exalted yourself above the knowledge of God and resist what the scripture plainly teach.

Again, the irony in some of your statements.

'Believe [aorist active imperative] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved [future passive indicative]' (Act 16:31 LITV).

 

[jonahmano]

to the non-OSAS'ers,

Why not answer or argue against the post above? Are you ignoring it because it disagrees with non-OSAS doctrine?

Acts 16:31 presents a massive hole in your doctrine.

Acts 16:31 King James Version (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

you have left out ............and thy house. Please explain how the household gets saved when only one person of that family gets saved? therefore your argument is demolished

 

[white hamster]

I tend to believe Jesus when he says we have eternal life and that no one snatches us from his hand whom the father hath given him.

 

[Gregg]

How many times do we have to tell you that we believe that you are saved when you first believe. The problem is you have been indoctrinated to automatically hear the word 'saved' as meaning irreversibly saved. Non-OSAS simply says you are saved right when you believe, but that you must continue to believe to not lose what you presently have. We say it because the plain words of the Bible say that.

'Believe [aorist active imperative] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved [future passive indicative]' (Act 16:31 LITV).

What part of "you will be saved" has any qualifications, except the phrase before it?

 

[Gregg]

Acts 16:31 King James Version (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

you have left out ............and thy house. Please explain how the household gets saved when only one person of that family gets saved? therefore your argument is demolished

You are diverting the conversation.

First explain 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.'

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I tend to believe Jesus when he says we have eternal life and that no one snatches us from his hand whom the father hath given him.

So do I. But I also believe the other passages that warn me not to walk out of his hand on my own.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are diverting the conversation.

No he's not.

How does getting saved for the jailer mean right now and irreversible, but that same word saved doesn't mean that for his family?