Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[gr8grace3]

There is only one kingdom, either you inherit it or not. We're only believing once here...

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Our inheritance is guaranteed through the promised Holy Spirit. We inherit the kingdom once we come to faith and accept Jesus as Savior Rom 10:9 and Luke 17:21.

Our inheritance of salvation and entering the Kingdom is Guaranteed. Not our reign in the Kingdom.

Also DRS, study Rom 10:9 it is not a salvation verse. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is a salvation verse. We confess Christ AFTER we are saved. We do not need to confess Christ to be saved. It was a Jewish audience and they needed to teach Christ or confess Christ to those around them.

 

[gr8grace3]

You make all of this way too complicated.

I honestly believe that I do not make it complicated, nor does FreeGrace, it is the naysayers that make it complicated.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am sure glad that I do not believe that my salvation could be lost.There would be about 100 times the Lord would have said "Sorry you are not going to heaven".

You can only lose it one time.

 

[white hamster]

I honestly believe that I do not make it complicated, nor does FreeGrace, it is the naysayers that make it complicated.

True. There is no difference between entering the kingdom of heaven and reigning in the kingdom of heaven. As soon as a person was born again they joined Christ and his royal family.
The difference assumed is in the scribal translations of the texts into Greek. Reigning and entering seeming to be two different things when they're not.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But we didn't mark ourselves with our own seal and mark. The seal and mark comes from God.

This scripture is referring to GOD'S mark, GOD'S seal, GOD'S promised Holy Spirit. GOD'S deposit, GOD'S guarantee, GOD'S inheritance, GOD'S possession.

Yes, these are God's doings that are secured by our believing that our sins are forgiven in Christ.

Notice it says, when you believed, you were marked. We are only believing once Jethro. Rom 10:9.

We know this. This is not in debate. The argument is, if you stop believing you lose what your believing secured/secures for you.

What are your thoughts on God's grace.

Rom 11:5-6 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Right. Righteousness is given on the basis of having your sin debt erased through forgiveness, not on the basis of building up your righteousness through doing righteous works of the law. That's why justification is by faith--we get righteousness applied to our account by believing God that our sin debt is erased through the blood of Jesus Christ. .

Who is the election that is spoken of here in Rom 11:28.

Israel.

The point being, their calling is because of the favor of God, not because they were good. But even though it is because of God's favor that they are called they still had to secure that favor by faith in God, not works. To date, as a people, they have failed miserably to do that (have faith). But their rejection of God will not ultimately thwart his plan and purpose for them.

"3 What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?" (Romans 3:3 NASB)

This doesn't mean that somehow those who rejected him are saved despite their unbelief. We know from the whole counsel of scripture that one day a later generation of Israelites will accept Jesus as savior and the nation on the whole will be saved, not just a remnant as it has been in any one generation, and God will have been found faithful to fulfill his promises to Abraham.

There was somebody in this forum--who by his own admission used to have faith in God but did not now--who took false comfort in this scripture to mean that he didn't have to have faith to be saved. He did not understand that any Jew who died in their sins is lost and will stay lost, and that it is other believing Jews who will fulfill God's plan to save the nation of Israel.

 

[gr8grace3]

You can only lose it one time.

Is it God or YOU that loses your salvation? Do you have confidence in your flesh that you will not lose your salvation?

Romans 7:23-24 NASB~~ 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Gregg and I have asked this question countless times. If salvation is from God and we can lose it, then God fails. Our flesh always fails, it has to be God that fails if we can lose salvation.

If Paul wasn't truly set free, He KNOWS that His flesh would fail him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

BIBLE COMMENTARY: Reformation Study Bible – Matt 19:23–26
19:23–26 Wealth was considered evidence of God’s approval, and the rich would seem to be the likeliest candidates for the kingdom. Jesus turned this idea upside-down, and the result was not lost on the disciples: “Who then can be saved?” (v. 25).

Can you explain what this has to do with the unmerciful servant who was forgiven his unpayable debt, but who then had that debt reinstated when he showed contempt, not gratitude, for the forgiveness he had received? (Matthew 18:23-35 NASB)

 

[gr8grace3]

True. There is no difference between entering the kingdom of heaven and reigning in the kingdom of heaven. As soon as a person was born again they joined Christ and his royal family.
The difference assumed is in the scribal translations of the texts into Greek. Reigning and entering seeming to be two different things when they're not.

Please show me those scribal translations.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is it God or YOU that loses your salvation? Do you have confidence in your flesh that you will not lose your salvation?

Romans 7:23-24 NASB~~ 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Gregg and I have asked this question countless times. If salvation is from God and we can lose it, then God fails. Our flesh always fails, it has to be God that fails if we can lose salvation.

If Paul wasn't truly set free, He KNOWS that His flesh would fail him.

Just because salvation can't, and doesn't happen with man alone hardly means man plays no part whatsoever in salvation. We have the responsibility to trust in the blood, and we do that with all the power God gives so we can do that if we want to.

 

[JLB]

Yup, and those who are under grace will inherit the Kingdom, born again. Grace is a gift from God that cannot be taken away.

Only a study of what the scripture says that shows those who will not inherit the kingdom of God, will give us the whole picture rather that our opinion.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-20

Paul teaches us, in his letter to the Galatians, that to avoid fulfilling, or carrying out the intention, of the lusts of the flesh, that we must walk in the Spirit.

Paul had warned these folks of this very thing before, so this was not the first time he warned them, as he said - of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past,...

that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Not inheriting the kingdom of God, as we have seen from the words of Jesus on Judgement Day, means one thing: 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


Inherit the kingdom = Access granted to God's Kingdom forever.

Not inherit the kingdom = Sentenced to hell forever



JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

Just because salvation can't, and doesn't happen with man alone hardly means man plays no part whatsoever in salvation. We have the responsibility to trust in the blood, and we do that with all the power God gives so we can do that if we want to.

So God might not give you enough power and it is His fault?

 

[gr8grace3]

True. There is no difference between entering the kingdom of heaven and reigning in the kingdom of heaven. As soon as a person was born again they joined Christ and his royal family.
The difference assumed is in the scribal translations of the texts into Greek. Reigning and entering seeming to be two different things when they're not.

I just want to be sure of your position. You Know that the originals were in common greek and some in attic Greek? They did not get translated INTO Greek.

 

[DRS81]

Yes, these are God's doings that are secured by our believing that our sins are forgiven in Christ.

And scripture says we only have to believe once. It says when you believed you were marked. What did you believe in? The message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Notice it says salvation. After you have come to faith in Jesus Christ, you have then obtain salvation by faith. Notice it says that your not sealed at the end of your christian life, but rather you are sealed on the day you accept Jesus as your Savior.

Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

We know this. This is not in debate. The argument is, if you stop believing you lose what your believing secured/secures for you.

But there is no argument. Some people just like to argue so they don't process what's really going on. Do you understand what a seal is?

Right. Righteousness is given on the basis of having your sin debt erased through forgiveness, not on the basis of building up your righteousness through doing righteous works of the law. That's why justification is by faith--we get righteousness applied to our account by believing God that our sin debt is erased through the blood of Jesus Christ.

But our sin debt was erased once you accepted Jesus as your Savior, past/present/future sins have all been erased. Rom 10:9.

We are no longer convicted of sin like the world is, if you are born again you are convicted of righteousness. Do you understand the difference.

Only a study of what the scripture says that shows those who will not inherit the kingdom of God, will give us the whole picture rather that our opinion.

There is only one kingdom, either you inherit it or not. We're only believing once here...

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Our inheritance is guaranteed through the promised Holy Spirit. We inherit the kingdom once we come to faith and accept Jesus as Savior Rom 10:9 and Luke 17:21.

 

[JLB]

And scripture says we only have to believe once. It says when you believed you were marked. What did you believe in? The message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Notice it says salvation. After you have come to faith in Jesus Christ, you have then obtain salvation by faith. Notice it says that your not sealed at the end of your christian life, but rather you are sealed on the day you accept Jesus as your Savior.

Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.



But there is no argument. Some people just like to argue so they don't process what's really going on. Do you understand what a seal is?



But our sin debt was erased once you accepted Jesus as your Savior, past/present/future sins have all been erased. Rom 10:9.

We are no longer convicted of sin like the world is, if you are born again you are convicted of righteousness. Do you understand the difference.



There is only one kingdom, either you inherit it or not. We're only believing once here...

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Our inheritance is guaranteed through the promised Holy Spirit. We inherit the kingdom once we come to faith and accept Jesus as Savior Rom 10:9 and Luke 17:21.

These Christian believers were warned before and now are being warned again by Paul.


16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-20

Paul teaches us, in his letter to the Galatians, that to avoid fulfilling, or carrying out the intention, of the lusts of the flesh, that we must walk in the Spirit.


Practicing the works of the flesh will cause you to not inherit the kingdom of God.



JLB

 

[DRS81]

These Christian believers were warned before and now are being warned again by Paul.


16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-20

These scriptures are not referring to Christians under grace. Gal 5:21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/galatians/5-21.htm
and that they which do such things, shall not inherit the kingdom of God; by which is meant the heavenly glory, called a "kingdom", because of the grandeur and magnificence of that state; and "of God", because it is of his preparing and giving, what he calls his own to by his grace, and puts them into the possession of and where he reigns and will reign for ever, and show forth the glory of his majesty: this is possessed in way of inheritance, which shows it to be a bequest of our heavenly Father's, a free grace gift of his, and not to be obtained by the works of the law, or merits of men; but what belongs, and is peculiar to the children of God, who are so by adopting grace: now they that do such works of the flesh as before enumerated; that is, that live in the commission of these things, whose whole lives are employed in such work, living and dying in such a state, without repentance towards God and faith in Christ, shall never enjoy eternal life and happiness; though such who have done these things, being brought to a sense of them, and to the blood and righteousness of Christ for pardon and justification, for life and salvation; such, notwithstanding the works of the flesh done by them, shall, through the free grace of God, and the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, inherit the kingdom and glory of God.

There is only one kingdom, either you inherit it or not. We're only believing once here...

Eph 1:13-14 Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Our inheritance is guaranteed through the promised Holy Spirit. We inherit the kingdom once we come to faith and accept Jesus as Savior Rom 10:9 and Luke 17:21.

 

[DRS81]

JLB Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[JLB]

JLB Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul warns them those who practice the works of the flesh, the very same flesh that Paul tells they will fulfill if they don't walk in the Spirit.

The very same thing he told the church at Rome.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

What are your thoughts on what I've said here.................

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Our inheritance is guaranteed through the promised Holy Spirit. We inherit the kingdom once we come to faith and accept Jesus as Savior Rom 10:9 and Luke 17:21.

 

[JLB]

What are your thoughts on what I've said here.................

I think you have not read for enough in the book of Ephesians.

If you had, you would have read this -

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. 3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Ephesians 5:1-5


For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Yes, and these are not christians under grace, they are not born again.

Eph 1:14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

Pulpit Commentary - http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-14.htm
Verse 14. - Who is the earnest of our inheritance. The gift of the Spirit is not only a seal, but an earnest, firstfruit, or installment, a pledge that the rest shall follow. The seal of the Spirit not only assures us of the full inheritance to come, but gives us a right conception of its nature. It shows us the kind of provision God makes for those whom he takes as his heritage, his peculiar people. It is an inward heaven the Spirit brings them. "The kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost." The full inheritance will consist in a heart in full sympathy with God, and in those occupations and joys, intellectual and moral, which are most congenial to such a heart.