Love your enemy

[stovebolts]

Interesting analogy? Just a question comes up then, do you support that a 'huge' number of Catholics priest's need to be shot?

That is a very interesting twist John. As this is the first post I have seen from ttg, I'm not sure if your refering to another post or not. But you really caught my attention here.

Are you saying...

If I have a gun and I am willing to protect my family, my child, my wife from an evil invader by shooting the invader with a gun...

Then...
Being the body of Christ, we have many children as we are children ourselves...and there are many preditors. Is there a difference between your biolgical child and your brother or sister in Christ or your children in Christ?

In summary, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we can justify killing to protect our family, then we have to look at how we define family.

Am I tracking with your line of thought John?

 

[MrVersatile48]

Timely Word 4 Today from http://www.arcamax.com



Today's Scripture

Power over our enemies...

Give us help from trouble:
for vain is the help of man.

Through God we shall do valiantly:
for he it is that shall tread down our enemies.

Psalm 60:11,12 KJV

__________________

"Hear, O Israel, you are approaching the battle against your enemies today. Do not be fainthearted. Do not be afraid, or panic, or tremble before them, for the LORD your God is the one who goes with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.'

Deuteronomy 20:3,4 NASB

__________________

For in the time of trouble
he shall hide me in his pavilion:
in the secret of his tabernacle
shall he hide me;
he shall set me up upon a rock.

And now shall mine head be lifted up
above mine enemies round about me:
therefore will I offer in his
tabernacle sacrifices of joy;
I will sing, yea,
I will sing praises unto the LORD.

Psalm 27:5,6 KJV

__________________

Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift:
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God
is the object of our faith; the only faith
that saves is faith in Him.


Read Through the Bible in a Year

April 7: Matthew 27:32-66, Deuteronomy 7-8, Job 7
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Weekly Meditation

Jesus: Lord and Christ

So let it be clearly known by everyone in Israel that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified to be both Lord and Messiah!"

Peter's words convicted them deeply, and they said to him and to the other apostles, "Brothers, what should we do?"

Peter replied, "Each of you must turn from your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to you and to your children, and even to the Gentiles[a]--all who have been called by the Lord our God." Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, "Save yourselves from this generation that has gone astray!"

Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church--about three thousand in all.

Acts 2:36-41 NLT

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To save repeating, I'll link to tread, "Will YOU serve Jesus come what may?"

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=

Meanwhile, I think it omitted Romans 13


Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

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Note that means that God only authorises & ordains Govts who commend the good & punish evildoers

We were right to fight Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Amin, etc

& Al Qaida, who want to conquer the world & impose global sharia law mutilations & beheadings, etc, as per their world domination manual, the Koran

I've heard it said, several times, that born-again, Bible-believing, Spirit-led Christians make the best police, security staff & Armed Forces personnel

God would not so powerfully anoint what He doesn't want doing


God bless!

Ian

 

[Heidi]

"What do you think Jesus would have said? "Blow him away?"

Yes. No explanation necessary.

We have this crazy society we created and we are paying for it. I will not continue contributing to it. Jesus' teachings have been ignored and neglected. I will never use guns or any weapon to protect myself or my family. I will follow Jesus' teachings. If my family or I get killed because I did not use a weapon, then so be it. I call this being martyred.

I love your heart, gingercat. Actually, what I would do is try to lead the perpetrator to Christ. Not only is there no better way to calm him down, but his soul and my soul will benefit from it. Jesus always knows the right way to handle things.

 

[gingercat]

What's your point Mr.varsatile?

thanks

 

[stovebolts]

I love your heart, gingercat. Actually, what I would do is try to lead the perpetrator to Christ. Not only is there no better way to calm him down, but his soul and my soul will benefit from it. Jesus always knows the right way to handle things.

What if he was an athiest? Or a Muslem? Could you still calm him down?

 

[gingercat]

What if he was an athiest? Or a Muslem? Could you still calm him down?

You will find a way to avoid killing if you really want to, Stove. Jesus help us to find a way.

 

[stovebolts]

I agree gingercat.

Tell you a little story. When I was a teen, I stabbed a guy out of self defense. I could have killed him and been justified in doing so. But I didn't.

I realized then that even though I was a street rat I didn't want to be responsible for taking the life of another human being and I threw my knife away. Life is precious... for EVERYONE. I don't own a gun and I don't plan on owning a gun. When I went to go into the military when I was 18, I walked out of the office after passing my exams just before I was about to sign the paperwork. I saw a glimpse of myself that would have enjoyed killing people, and I didn't want to feed that monster. Yes, Jesus does truly save us from ourselves.

I don't disagree with anyone who goes into the military, it just wasn't my calling...

As far as Heidi's post, I would be real curious as to what she would say to sombody that was in her house about to rape her kid... I've seen how she talks to athiests on these boards and I'm wondering what would change if she had an athiest in her face about to rape her or one of her kids...

It's easy to talk the talk, but walking the walk is another deal all together and to be frank, her words just don't pan up to her M>O

Perhaps I'm wrong? Who am I to judge?

 

[MrVersatile48]

What's your point Mr.varsatile?

thanks

many & varied as usual, dude! :

I'll see if I have time to post clarifying links.. 8-)

See "Will YOU serve Jesus come what may?" thread:-

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... ht=#257603

Must go!

Ian

 

[gingercat]

I'll see if I have time to post clarifying links.. 8-)


Ian

Thank you Ian, I hope you make time to post

 

[John the Baptist]

Interesting analogy? Just a question comes up then, do you support that a 'huge' number of Catholics priest's need to be shot?

That is a very interesting twist John. As this is the first post I have seen from ttg, I'm not sure if your refering to another post or not. But you really caught my attention here.

Are you saying...

If I have a gun and I am willing to protect my family, my child, my wife from an evil invader by shooting the invader with a gun...

***
Open sin! OK?
***

Then...
Being the body of Christ, we have many children as we are children ourselves...and there are many preditors. Is there a difference between your biolgical child and your brother or sister in Christ or your children in Christ?

***
Hopefully! Do you remember Cain? Even though he was left to live. (for awhile)
***

In summary, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we can justify killing to protect our family, then we have to look at how we define family.

***
Naw, only need to have a correct JUDGEMENT call. What are you doing breaking into my home?? :. But, we see messages many times with threats & warnings even, of this or that? all the while calling them PRIVATE messages, like this is legal, pluss Christian to boot, huh?
***

Am I tracking with your line of thought John?

***
Who knows what track you are on?? :fadein:
---John

 

[gingercat]

I believe Jesus is the only one who tells it to the world, but most of us are not practincing it. This is the most difficult one for us because we are so selfish naturally.

Jesus and His disciples were pacifist and they never killed anyone even for self-defence in the NT. Why should we be any different? They were always surrounded by enemies; they were killed instead of fighting back.

Many Christians join the military and churches approve of it. If we are doing the same thing as the rest of the world (approving of joining the military) how can we be His true witnesses? We cannot be His messengers by being one of the world. We have to show His "love" by loving our enemy.

Killing your enemy because you judged they are evil is not of Jesus!

We have many hypocritical practices in the Christian community and joining the military is one of the biggest ones.

He never carried weapons. His sword is the Bible. His soldiers don't carry around weapons. He wants us to concentrate on spreading the good news. His soldiers won't get payed to do His will. They even die for spreading the Truth. Many of us don't even know there are many persecuted Christians in many countries. While we are arguing about OSAS, tongues, Mary and pope whorshipping and other theologies, many faithful ones are hard at work. Many of them get tortured and imprisoned if they are found spreading the Truth. Compared to them most of us are playing Christians. We are deceiving ourselves and others at His expense.

May God help us to be true to Him with all of our heart, soul, strength and mind.

I am repeating this for non-believers. They have wrong image for Jesus' teachings.

 

[John the Baptist]

What do you think Christ meant by take with you one or two witness, and if the person will not hear them, tell it to the church???
And what do you think it means to have the person defrocked from the heavenly Books? Sounds fatal to me, unless Christ is just telling it all wrong, huh?
Even a church trial! And if any are in the (Psalms 19:13) GREAT transgression, they will be finding an eternal death around the corner. Obadiah 1:16 & Revelation 2:5 or Matthew 23:38 or Revelation 3:9. But these verses are for a whole candlestick! Sounds as if the whole of Revelation 17:5 ones are all included to me! And this is the second death decree! :

There are way to many games constructed calling them Christian teachings! Does one 'believe' Christ here? Luke 12:47-48 or Matthew 25:10's final death decree, or the closed door of Noah's Ark.. from the Godhead.
---John

 

[gingercat]

John, what is your point? Would you simplify please?

 

[John the Baptist]

The Romans 13 law is the only part of the Eternal Covenant that Caesar is to have a spiritual part in. (the second table of stone's duty to man) Separation between church & state.

When the true church are living up to Gods Truth, and then defrocks any blatant unrepentant open sinner, it signifies the second death. The church has the keys of the kingdom to add to or to remove from the Lambs Book of life. (baptism add's one, when the conditions are met)

[IF] as my first post acknowledged, they were in Obedience to the Eternal Gospel & its Eternal Covenant CONDITIONS!

---John

 

[gingercat]

John,

I still don't get your point.

Do you know I am protesting Christians joining the military and disgracing Jesus' teaching of "love your enemy"?

 

[reznwerks]

c/o

I believe Jesus is the only one who tells it to the world, but most of us are not practincing it. This is the most difficult one for us because we are so selfish naturally.

Jesus and His disciples were pacifist and they never killed anyone even for self-defence in the NT. Why should we be any different? They were always surrounded by enemies; they were killed instead of fighting back. ......

.

Read my response to "conscientious objection" in "General Talk"

 

[gingercat]

Re: c/o

read my response to "conscientious objection" in "General Talk"[/b]

I did and your reasoning of "bound by leaders" unbiblical. Christians duty is to follow Jesus' teachings, period. If the government is not in the line with Him, we sould not follow.

This is very simple but the churches are conveniently ignoring.

Good examle of "love your enemy" is in the persecuted countries' Christians: They are not obeying the government of oppressing the Christians and inspite of that they are spreading the good news to everyone whomever they can reach. They are risking their lives and their own families'.

This country's christianity is so secular in over all. Christians' weapon is the Bible and not the killing tools!

 

[reznwerks]

Re: c/o

read my response to "conscientious objection" in "General Talk"[/b]

I did and your reasoning of "bound by leaders" unbiblical. Christians duty is to follow Jesus' teachings, period. If the government is not in the line with Him, we sould not follow.

This is very simple but the churches are conveniently ignoring.

Good examle of "love your enemy" is in the persecuted countries' Christians: They are not obeying the government of oppressing the Christians and inspite of that they are spreading the good news to everyone whomever they can reach. They are risking their lives and their own families'.
=======
Gingercat which part of the post did you fail to read or not understand?
“I have not seen so great faith in all Israelâ€Â(referring to a Roman centurion) (Mt 8:10). Did Jesus tell the soldier to leave and get out of the military? NO! Jesus advocated violence when he said “It would have been proper for his disciples to defend His kingdom with a sword if it was an earthly kingdom†(Jn 18:36).


The bible says the God puts rulers in place. Governments are God appointed. Romans 13:1-7 1Peter 2:13-14



This country's christianity is so secular in over all. Christians' weapon is the Bible and not the killing tools!
Did you ever wonder why in battle God always gives the side with the bigger cannon the victory?

 

[gingercat]

Re: c/o

Jesus advocated violence when he said “It would have been proper for his disciples to defend His kingdom with a sword if it was an earthly kingdom†(Jn 18:36). [/color]

This interpretation of yours is wrong. Jesus is only saying that He and His followers are not here to build earthly kingdom; thats why we should not carry weapons around like secular people. His purpose is only for the paradice(heavenly kingdom).

Don't forget that persecuted countries' Christians are practicing Jesus' teaching of "love your enemy". Only wealthy countries' churches are advocating the millitary. It is all about the greed.

 

[gingercat]

Christians joining the military is wrong becasue it does not go along with the Jesus' teaching of "love your enemy"

It is against Jesus' love.