Love your enemy

[Vic C.]

:o Well that, ^, was rude-sounding, don't you think so?

Anyways...

There has been a passage that keeps creeping up on me.
Now, I wonder how this (defending those being persecuted) fits in to what Jesus is saying He will do upon His return, concerning hiw His people are treated.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

[gingercat]

Vic,

What is your point, would you elaborate please?

thanks.

 

[Relic]

.

... Jesus is and was pacifist ...

Jesus was not a passivist.

If Jesus was a passivist then why did he whip those people who were doing business that were in the temple?


Listen to this broadcast by Andrew Wommack on Godly anger.

This particular broadcast covers all that gingercat was trying to defend as Jesus being a passivist and will show that she is not correct in her view of "being a Christians means being a passivist". Sorry gingercat but, Jesus was not a passivist. He just knew when to use force and when not to.


Pay particular attention to the part in which Andrew Wommack talks about what turning the other cheek and what that was all about, an then notice those parts in which he talks about how to distinguish between those who are "righteously"defending, against those who are wicked and "unrighteous" that come against you. In the broadcast, there is also mention of the battle in the book of revelation where Jesus comes to lead and win over the wickedness of this world.



Godly Anger Part V
(real audio format)
March 31,2006
http://media.awmi.net/video/2006/03mar/mar31web.ram

(Mp3 format)
March 31, 2006
http://downloads.awmi.net/tv/2006/awm_tv20060331.mp3

If you want to listen to the whole series you can go to his web site and find them in the archives for the week of March 27th thru March 31st 2006.
http://www.awmi.net/tv/this_week They will be in the regular archives starting next week. But for now they are in this weeks program files.


.

 

[gingercat]

.

... Jesus is and was pacifist ...

Jesus was not a passivist.

If Jesus was a passivist then why did he whip those people who were doing business that were in the temple?

Relic,

Jesus did not kill nor harmed any one, He just chased them away with the whip, especially the animals.

I hope this helps.

 

[Relic]

.

well, I can tell you didn't bother to listen to any of that broadcast by Andrew Wommack. :-?

.

 

[gingercat]

.

well, I can tell you didn't bother to listen to any of that broadcast by Andrew Wommack. :-?

.

Would you be specific please?

thanks

 

[Relic]

.

well, I can tell you didn't bother to listen to any of that broadcast by Andrew Wommack. :-?

.

Would you be specific please?

thanks

and so now.... it's appears you need to re-read the message also.

click:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=255706#255706



.

 

[gingercat]

.

well, I can tell you didn't bother to listen to any of that broadcast by Andrew Wommack. :-?

.

Would you be specific please?

thanks

and so now.... it's appears you need to re-read the message also.

click:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=255706#255706



.

I am sorry relic. I don't go into someone elses interpretation and practice of "love your enemy". That's why I have my own thread. :

 

[Bick]

Hi Gingercat. I thought I would get on this link, for I have some questions.

It is certainly true that Jesus during his earthly ministry preached to the multitudes that a change of mind and heart are required to see the kingdom of the heavens. He is preaching only to His own people, Israel, and specifically to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, as we read in Matt.10:5,6.

And many principals he extolled have been important since Adam and Eve: namely faith, obedience, love, hope, upright living, a forgiving spirit, etc.

Yes, we should pray for our enemies that they come to know the truth.

But should we not defend ourselves, say from a robber? Or a rapist?

It is interesting that "turn the other cheek" is often quoted by a pacifist.
But, it was pointed out to me by a pastor, that Jesus was talking about being insulted for following Him. Since most men are right handed, if one wanted to swing and hurt you with his fist, you would be hit on the left cheek. But, if he slapped you with the back of his hand to insult you for being a believer, it would be your right cheek as we read in Matt.5:39.

As for telling a soldier to resign, in Luke 3:14 two soldiers came to John to be baptized and when asked what they should do, all John said was "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely--be content with your pay."
Nothing was said by John to get out of the military.

And in Matt.8:5-10 a Roman centurion appeals to Jesus to heal his servant.
When Jesus said "I will go and heal him", the centurion had faith that Jesus could heal the servant with but a word. Jesus was astonished at the centurion's faith. But, Jesus did not condemn him for being a soldier.

Since Jesus knew that those who became His disciples would cause schisms in their families, He said in Matt.10:34 ff:
DO NOT SUPPOSE THAT IHAVE COME TO BRING PEACE TO THE EARTH. I DID NOT COME TO BRING PEACE, BUT A SWORD. FOR I HAVE COME TO TURN: A man against his father
A daughter against her mother
A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law---
A man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

God bless, Bick

 

[gingercat]

Bick,

I already responded to all of those you are questioning.

Please, re-read the thread.

Thanks

 

[John the Baptist]

--What Is Love??--

God is love!
Used much, but understood little. When a post is posted up, what is God seeing? A person or a post? Which might God love & what might God hate? Remember that it is the 'sin' or (maybe) the 'message' that God hates.

We often talk of God loving the sinner but hating the sin. All sin caused Christ's death! And as for any message that I (we) post, even though you do not know the 'mind' or the reasoning behind the message, or even the knowledge or accountability of its contents?.. you still have something to love or hate.
But can one love any person who goes against their 'belief' is the bottom line question?? He or she hates the poster is the 'personal' individual thinking as a rule of thumb?

And we also do not know the future as God does! Such as who will in time be a converted Saul perhaps? Was he 'loved' by the ones that he was killing? Yet, did this love for him keep the Christians from running away & hiding from him?? : (or wanting him executed!?)

True Agape Love needs to be turned around to see the other side that we hardly ever hear about! .. like being killed? (Christ) Was (His) our 'message' one of love or one of hate?? Was it of emotion, feeling good, and Excitement, or was it a LOVING PRINCIPLE? Remaining quiet, silent or un/contesting 'sin' while millions are going into a Christ/less grave unwarned & unsaved is not a love for anyone but oneself! It surely is not a love for Christ that died for these sinners whom He LOVED!! See Luke 12:47-48 for His Everlasting Truth of who are the ones of most accountability! This love is called the sick SIN OF OMISSION! And hell will find this sin as a top priority for the ones of Luke 12 and the ones who are Spewed out in Revelation 3:16-17.

And God will do His 'strange Loving act' of Obadiah 1:16 of putting them out of their misery.

---John

 

[cegr]

OK, everyone,

Tell me then which denomination doesn't approve of military? I haven't found any, except JW.

I am not JW.

Many people get upset about this subject. :roll: Isn't that why yo dont want to bring this subject up?

Many denominations are brain washed in their theology, Pentecoastal's tongues, Catholics' Mary and pope and peter woshipping, Baptists' and others OSAS and etc. But all of you have something in common it is about military. You get in cohoots in killing the evil enemy in the name of Jesus.

Well, the Mennonites, the Church of the Brethren, the Quakers and most of those of the Anabaptist tradition are traditionally pacifist organizations. These are Christian churches. It is hard to say that their denominations are pacfist since they are loosely organized and generally each congregation is autonomous (a generalization). Look up "Mennonites" and you can learn more.

Methodists used to be pacifist as were Jesus'immediate followers (as you have noted). Perhaps we can learn a thing or two from our history.

 

[gingercat]

Thank you cegr, I will look it up.

 

[Muthukumar]

love ur enemy

hi gingercat

How r u, iam new to this forums, and my first forum is to u.

If u read the Chapter 1peter :
Peter says that after the death of the jesus christ, he went and preached the gospels to devil, Means No should be out of the Control every one of the his creature should come to heaven and to praise Our God. So dont take care abt the military and world we are under feet of My lord jesus christ, Only to praise to him. If u r so hunger, U r mind will never diviate to other people who do ill to u, Ur only aim to take food, And our Food is the bible so we needed to take it , to grow healthy in our spritual life .

 

[gingercat]

Hi muth,

welcome to the forum

I am sorry I did not get your point. Would you elaborate please? It is much easyer to read if you dont use so many Us and Rs.

thanks

 

[ttg]

OK, I just skipped over seven pages of this, but I think I have the gist of Gingercat's thread.

Several years ago, I woke up after hearing someone close the front door. I looked at the clock and it was about 2:00 am. So I roll over in bed and look down a dark hallway to see a tall male standing by the front door. He's about 10 feet from my 1 yr-old son's room

I jump up, grab my .357, and as quick as I can, drop in six rounds from my speed loader. I point it down the hallway just in time to this guy slam the door on his way out. I run out and don't see anybody. He only had a 5 sec. head start, so he must have run into another apartment.

Next morning I leave on vacation. That evening I get a call from my father-in-law who is a fire captain. Turns out the 18 yr-old who lives in the apt. above me tried to kill himself that afternoon. A check of his police records shows he is a convicted sex offender who is living with his dad against apt. policy.

No question in my mind who broke into my apt the night before. Really no question what he wanted.

So, gingercat, should I have turned the other cheek and given my family over to a rapist? Or should I have chased him out with the threat of blowing a hole in the size of a dinner plate?

 

[Heidi]

OK, I just skipped over seven pages of this, but I think I have the gist of Gingercat's thread.

Several years ago, I woke up after hearing someone close the front door. I looked at the clock and it was about 2:00 am. So I roll over in bed and look down a dark hallway to see a tall male standing by the front door. He's about 10 feet from my 1 yr-old son's room

I jump up, grab my .357, and as quick as I can, drop in six rounds from my speed loader. I point it down the hallway just in time to this guy slam the door on his way out. I run out and don't see anybody. He only had a 5 sec. head start, so he must have run into another apartment.

Next morning I leave on vacation. That evening I get a call from my father-in-law who is a fire captain. Turns out the 18 yr-old who lives in the apt. above me tried to kill himself that afternoon. A check of his police records shows he is a convicted sex offender who is living with his dad against apt. policy.

No question in my mind who broke into my apt the night before. Really no question what he wanted.

So, gingercat, should I have turned the other cheek and given my family over to a rapist? Or should I have chased him out with the threat of blowing a hole in the size of a dinner plate?

What do you think Jesus would have said? "Blow him away?" :o

You need to read his words more carefully so you understand who it is you follow. And if you don't follow Christ, then as he said; "Whoever finds his life will lose it and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

 

[ttg]

"What do you think Jesus would have said? "Blow him away?"

Yes. No explanation necessary.

 

[gingercat]

"What do you think Jesus would have said? "Blow him away?"

Yes. No explanation necessary.

We have this crazy society we created and we are paying for it. I will not continue contributing to it. Jesus' teachings have been ignored and neglected. I will never use guns or any weapon to protect myself or my family. I will follow Jesus' teachings. If my family or I get killed because I did not use a weapon, then so be it. I call this being martyred.

 

[John the Baptist]

OK, I just skipped over seven pages of this, but I think I have the gist of Gingercat's thread.

Several years ago, I woke up after hearing someone close the front door. I looked at the clock and it was about 2:00 am. So I roll over in bed and look down a dark hallway to see a tall male standing by the front door. He's about 10 feet from my 1 yr-old son's room

I jump up, grab my .357, and as quick as I can, drop in six rounds from my speed loader. I point it down the hallway just in time to this guy slam the door on his way out. I run out and don't see anybody. He only had a 5 sec. head start, so he must have run into another apartment.

Next morning I leave on vacation. That evening I get a call from my father-in-law who is a fire captain. Turns out the 18 yr-old who lives in the apt. above me tried to kill himself that afternoon. A check of his police records shows he is a convicted sex offender who is living with his dad against apt. policy.

No question in my mind who broke into my apt the night before. Really no question what he wanted.

So, gingercat, should I have turned the other cheek and given my family over to a rapist? Or should I have chased him out with the threat of blowing a hole in the size of a dinner plate?

********
Interesting analogy? Just a question comes up then, do you support that a 'huge' number of Catholics priest's need to be shot?

---John