Lukewarm believers and faith

[RBDERRICK]

I think you're selling yourself short here, brother. Although I agree that we do not look good when we're doing wrong it doesn't mean we lose our Justification.

No Scripture speaks of losing salvation and justification, and so I don't preach it. Scripture only says we forsake the Lord and His ways, and He forsakes us to our own ways.

To be "justified" in the sense of Redemption, or Salvation, has a much lower threshold.

Only in the unclean religion of sinful man.

God's threshold for disobedience is none in His holy temple and body of Jesus Christ on earth.

At West Point and in the military, disobedience to a lawful order is court martialed out of the army. The only difference between man's military and God's army is there is no trial with defence made for the disobedience.

The Advocate only pleads for mercy to them that repent, the Jew first, and also the Christian. Until then, all children of disobedience are out of God's holy and everlasting kingdom.

In this life, parents may indeed allow the disobedient to remain in the house, and not be kicked out for one offence, but not in God's house. Christians who believe God is like them and their manner of home rule, are anthropomorphizing their own manner of judgement to God Himself.

 

[RBDERRICK]

We don't have to get saved and re-saved every time we fall into error.

Certainly not to the seared conscience.

This the endgame of justification by one's faith alone in Christ: searing the conscience to the Holy Spirit, who draws any man that sins to His godly sorrow confession and repentance, for forgiveness and reconciliation with God.

It doctrinally cuts in half a lifetime double hearted cycle of rebellion and repentance. It doesn't cut the disobedience part, but only cuts the repentance part from being forgiven and reconciled to God.

Rom 16:18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Where any man is disobeying God more on earth, there is more condemnation of God from heaven.

Justification by faith alone without works, is disobedience alone without repentance.

Nah 1:3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked:

Job 10:14If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.

This is why Justification by Faith is so important, because it covers us even while we're sinners and slip up on occasion.

Well then. Here we have it in a nice nutshell. Thanks.

Justification by faith alone is so important to being forgiven and justified, while sinning with the sinners of the world.

Jas 4:4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Justification by any faith, while being a disobedient enemy of God, is only a cover for the conscience being seared against the Spirit's conviction, and rejects repentance as being necessary to being forgiven and reconciled to God by Jesus Christ.

Jhn 15:22If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

even while we're sinners and slip up on occasion.

The road to lukewarm religion is covered with euphemisms for sinful trespass and iniquity against God: Slip ups, mess ups, and oopsies.

It doesn't mean we're right to "slip up,"

No, certainly not any right to do so, just justification while doing so. A distinction without a difference.

But then again, don't sinners have a right to mess up from time to time? I mean, if we're born with sin, then isn't it a kind of brithright given us by God, who created and made us that way in the first place...

We *all* slip up at times.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus slipped on mud or wet grass in His life.

But we don't all crucify Him to ourselves today. I.e. sin against Him. Sin.

I'm not part of the 'we' that you speak for. And you certainly don't speak for me.

 

[RBDERRICK]

That's true. I think I was referring to Christians who do things that are not inspired by Christ's love and Spirit.

No one is believing in Jesus Christ, nor has His Spirit and love, while doing unrighteousness against Him and man:

James 2:15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

1 John 3:17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

But yes, non-Christians obviously do things apart from Christ.

Any man doing unrighteousness is apart from Christ.

Heb 7:26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

The world does have a conscience given it to them by God from creation.

Exactly. All people are created in the image of God, and lightened by Christ coming into the world. All men are children of God by vitue of creation.

But all men that sin are dead to God, and by their own lust of heart become children of the devil. He is the father of sin by having been the first created being of God to lust against the Creator.

Isa 14:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

Eze 28:15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[RBDERRICK]

And if they aren't deceiving themselves, and follow the right path, they are actually following Christ ignorantly.

God consciousness is not God justification. No man can follow Jesus Christ ignorantly.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Sinners must repent for Jesus' sake, in order to find mercy with faith to walk as He walked.

The only Christ that sinners ignorantly follow is another Christ of the world.

1Co 12:2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Gal 4:8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

Especially any named Christ that justifies sinners, while they are sinning against the true Christ and God Jesus.

Mark 13:22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

There may be many in Heaven who have followed Christ, in some measure, who will be forgiven by God not having a full knowledge of Christ.

No repentance from the grave, nor forgiveness by resurrection from the dead. No Catholic purgatory. A false Christ promises repentance unto salvation after the grave.

We either repent in this life from our own dead works, for Jesus' sake, or we die in our unrepented sins and trespasses to the grave.

Luke{13:2} And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? {13:3} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

1Jo 5:16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Remember what Paul said on the Aeropagus:

Acts 17. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.

Paul wasn't preaching to the pagan Athenians, that some of them were following the true Lord and God, by allowing for an unknown god. The idol for the unknown god was placed as cover for any gods they may have missed, or haven't heard of yet.

The law at Athens was punishment for bringing in any new gods, because the streets were too littered with them. And so, Paul used one of their own established idols, the unknown god, in order to introduce the Lord and God Jesus Christ, without getting prosecuted.

This is an important one for me. Having lived the Christian life for all of my 70 years, and having walked in the Spirit for 50+ of those years I can tell you that there are times when God leaves it up to us to decide what good we're going to do today.

True. It's called walking by faith.

And until we repent from our deeds, and He takes away lust from our hearts, then any God-conscious person can decide to do good or evil at any time, and none of their works justifiy them with God.

;) We are "children" and not "servants." God gives us lots of leeway, but reserves the right to direct us when He pleases.

The leeway of His law is personal faith and liberty in matters of law. The law of Christ is against drunkenness, so the liberty is to drink wine or not, but not to be drunken.

Same with meats and days and other things, that are not called unrighteous works and transgression by law of Christ.

1Co 8:8But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

Col 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[RBDERRICK]

We've already been down this path, remember? I define "accepting Christ" differently than you do.

I don't preach nor define accepting Jesus at all. Other than having there being no Scripture for choosing to accept Jesus, and also shown to be contrary to Scripture against choosing to accept Jesus. And yes, this path is finished.

 

[RandyK]

God consciousness is not God justification. No man can follow Jesus Christ ignorantly.

Acts 10.1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!”
4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.
The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”
Rom 2.26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?

 

[RBDERRICK]

We do not accept anything by the "faith of Jesus Christ." Rather, we accept Christ by our own faith.

And so, you now openly preach your own faith alone, and not the faith of Jesus Christ.

You preach being justified by your own faith in Christ, that you define for yourself alone.

Eph{2:8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Any Christ preached according to our own faith, and not by the faith of Jesus Christ found in Scripture, is another Christ of our own, not the Jesus Christ recorded in Scripture.

It's one's own faith alone in Christ, that chooses to accept a Christ of one's own.

Your faith in your Christ is not my faith in my Christ. Your Christ justifies you when and while you are doing your unrighteousness, mine doesn't. My Christ does not justify me nor any soul doing unrighteousness.

My Christ judges every person according to our works equally, without any respect toward our faith, while sinning against Him.

Nah 1:3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked:

Job 10:14If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.

 

[RBDERRICK]

The technical meaning of Justification refers to what Christ did before many of us were even born.

What Jesus did before us, was allow Himself to be crucified by wicked hands and buried, and then by the Father and Himself rising again from the dead.

Judgment of guilt for His death is retroactive by sinning for ourselves.

There is no retroactive justification by faith alone in Christ, especially not by His death alone.

Guilt is for all sinners piercing His hands. Justification is for all that repent by His resurrection with mercy in His pierced hands.

Rev 1:7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

By His sprinkling of blood from above, His hand prints are on the souls of them that obey Him.

Jesus died for our sins on the cross so that whoever receives that atonement for sin will be "Justified"

True. We are justified by repenting of our sins that nailed Him to a cross, and being sprinkled by His blood to make the atonement for our past sins.

He died for our sins to be repented of, and He makes atonement for our repented sins to be forgiven.

in the sense they have a ticket to get into Heaven.

That ticket is only purchased by repenting of shedding His blood on a cross,

Rev 3:18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

And is only given with sprinkling of His blood from above.

1Pe 1:2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Being born again from above is only by His resurrection from the dead.

Jhn 3:31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

No man rejecting His testimony of sprinkling of blood by the Spirit of grace, is atoned for their sins, nor has any purchased ticket to heaven. Especially not by shedding His blood unto death alone, without works worthy of repentance.

Faith alone in His death alone to atone for sins, is plainly not the faith in His resurrection, that atones for the soul unto newness of life and righteousness in Christ Jesus.

Rom 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

That faith alone is manifestly not the righteous faith of Jesus Christ, by two simple proofs of confession:
1. That faith is confessed as one's own, and not the faith of Jesus Christ.

2. That faith does not believe in doing His righteousness, but their own righteousness spotted with their own unrighteousness.

This does not require godliness to accept it. And it doesn't require godliness to keep it.

True. That justification by one's own faith alone in the death of Jesus, only requires ungodliness to accept and believe and keep it.

Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

No one living godly has their own faith alone in Christ, and no one livinig ungodly has the faith of Jesus Christ.

Still, we are human,

So was Jesus Christ in the flesh. So are all people in the flesh.

After His death, burial, and resurrection there are now human sinners without Christ, and human saints in Christ Jesus.

The former still walk after the flesh, and the latter walk as He walked in the flesh.

Good luck getting saved over and over and over again!

Thanks. That was once the case, but because I did not justify myself by my own faith alone in Christ, then I was granted repentance from a double heart, and given a whole new heart unto life.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?...A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Acts{11:17} Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? {11:18} When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

2Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

I do not say good luck with being justified by your faith alone in Christ, while crucifying Him to yourself, and spotting yourself with His shed blood over and over and over again.

 

[RBDERRICK]

The big thing to me is to know you've truly received Christ in the 1st place, receiving that New Nature.

Not by any old faith of sin, that still believes in sinning unto death.

The old faith of the old man of lust, does not believe in doing God's righteousness, but only believes in doing his own unrighteousness, howbeit with less spots in the name of Christ.

2Ti 2:19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

If you get that far, you'll be more than half the way there!

If we repent of our deeds, He gives us the whole new heart and life of the Spirit by grace. All new and all the way in Christ at once.

Sinner's lukewarm progessive religion of chopping away at the old man of lust, hasn't even begun the good race of life, much less gotten anywhere near the prize.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jerem 3:10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

You seem to think Grace is a license to sin.

The grace to cover sin with justification by faith alone in Christ, is the old license to sin, that Paul rebuked long ago.

Rom 6:1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Whether calling it justification while sinning, justification for sinning, or a ticket to sin unto heaven, it's all the same thing.

If we can't justify our own life, then much less the Judge Jesus Christ the righteous.

On the contrary, it is a license to obtain a New Nature that doesn't want to sin, that doesn't have to live in sin.

Any religion of sinners gives license to want to do good, and still do evil.

Until we are fully redeemed physically,

No man is redeemed from sins and trespasses by the grave and resurrection unto judgment.

however, we will remain somewhat unworthy.

And so, we have a full confession of one's own faith alone in Christ: Unbelief in doing God's righteousness. Only doing one's own spotted unrighteousness. Waiting unrepented to be made wholly new only after the grave. And in the meantime, walking unworthily.

1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

All men that sin are guilty of Jesus' shed blood at the cross, and all men that repent not to crucify Him to themselves, are still guilty of His body and blood on the cross.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Them that believe they are atoned for at the cross of Jesus' death, do not discern that His body was broken because of our sins and trespasses, not for our justification.

however, we will remain somewhat unworthy.

Eph{4:1} I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, {4:2} With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

Rev{3:4} Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

We are either walking worthy and are worthy now, or we are walking unworthy of resurrection unto life later, and only worthy of His just terror of judgment:


Heb 10:28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[RBDERRICK]

This last statement is, at best, misleading. You're making division where there is none, being needlessly divisive and sinfully judgemental of those with whom you disagree.

Good correction, thanks.

Those who believe in being atoned for at the cross by Jesus' death alone, do not deny His resurrection from the dead.

They beleive Jesus Christ is resurrected from the dead, but don't believe His resurrection is necessary for making the atonement. They err in believing in another atonement than Scripture, by killing the sacrifice alone, without sprinkling the blood.

The blood for atonement is shed unto death. It's the blood after death, that makes atonement for the people. Killing the animal alone does not atone for anyone's sins in the covenant of God.

Jesus's natural blood was the blood of sacrifice, which was shed on the cross, but not sprinkled after His death. It is the resurrected man Christ Jesus' blood that is now sprinkled to make atonement.

1Pe 1:2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh.

Jesus' blood of sacrifice was natural on the cross under the OT. His blood sprinkled that makes atonement is of the NT, by the quickening Spirit of Christ. Jesus' natural blood shed was not of the NT, which testament is in force only by His resurrection from the dead.

Mat 26:28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

In order to believe in another unscriptural atonement, which is by killing the sacrifice alone at the cross, people must first argue for the NT beginning at the cross, and not by His resurrection.

If the resurrection of Jesus Christ is not necessary for making the atonement, then either is His resurrection necessary for making His NT, if His blood of the NT is at the cross alone.

Jhn 6:53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Of course, then they must argue drinking His natural blood of the NT shed at the cross. (If not, then what blood of Jesus Christ is He commanding to drink, if not the blood of His NT?)

Jhn 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
And, they must reject Jesus' own words, that the blood of His NT, that is sprinkled to atone form the sins of His people, is Spirit and eternal life, not naturally mortal flesh and blood.

Finally, they must accept the natural conclusion, that any aotnement made by a man on earth, through shedding of blood unto death, is human sacrifice.

This of course is the old accusation based upon a lie, that the ancient God of the Jews forgave His own people for killing Him on a cross, if they would drink His blood and eat His flesh after death, which is cannablism. (Is that like cabalism?)

 

[RBDERRICK]

What you don't seem to understand is that the resurrected Christ is the crucified Christ.

No. Jesus Christ is no more crucified. He is the resurrected Lord God of Israel.

He was, is and ever shall be God the Word and the risen Lamb of God, but His resurrected body of immortal flesh and bones is not the mortal flesh and blood on earth.

His old flesh on earth is not His resurrected flesh in heaven. His natural blood shed on a cross is not of His Spirit sprinkling from above.

1Pe 1:2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
The blood that speaks better than that shed on the ground, is that of His Spirit above. His spiritual blood speaks so much better than natural, even as immortal exceeds mortal, and mercy exceeds condemnation.

If any soul seeks mercy rather than guilt, then let him repent of Jesus' shed blood on earth, and drink of His sprinkled blood from heaven.

He was crucified as a propitiation for our sins on our behalf,

He was crucified as a sacrfice killed to become the propitiation for sins by resurrection from the dead.

Rom 3:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

He becomes the propitiation by sprinkling of blood, which makes atonement for sins. We are not called to faith in any man's natural blood, especially not to drink it.

1Jo 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

The Scriptures of the NT written by the apostles, are given by the resurrected man Christ Jesus. He is now the propitiation. He is now risen from the dead. He is not now crucified.

His propitiation and atonement are made by sprinkling of blood in the NT gospel of the resurrected Jesus Christ. No propititatioon nor atonement of God in Scripture is made by shedding blood alone.

The pagans only kill the sacrifice. They do not sprinkle any blood upon themselves.

 

[RBDERRICK]

1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The folly is propitiation and atonement made by death alone.

The word of the cross is death for our sins. The word of the resurrection is sprinkling of blood for our justification.

1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The word of the Son of God's death on a cross, is folly to them worshipping immortal gods that are no gods. (Which is also why some preach a created angel-Christ, because they say God cannot die.)

The word of the cross judging all men guilty of the Son's death, is the offence of the cross. The Son of God dying on a cross at the hands of men is laughable to idolators. The hands of men being declared guilty of the Son' death, is hateful to the unrepentant.

The word of the cross and death of God's Son by the hands of all men, is the power of God to them that believe in the Father and the Son, and repent of their own sins and trespasses nailing Him to the tree.

The Son died by our sinful hands, for our sins to be made exceeding sinful unto repentance. The Son rises again for our justification with repentance and sprinkling of blood, that speaks mercy from heaven and not condemnation from the ground.

For some reason, you seem to think that if someone preaches the work of Christ on the cross, it somehow means they don't believe the resurrection is necessary.

If the resurrection is necessary to make the atonement, then why preach the atonement was made at the cross, before His resurrection?

And not only the atonement is made at the cross, but also forgiveness of sin and justification is by His death alone?

Do you now say His resurrection is necessary after His blood is shed unto death, for the atonement to be made for our forgiveness, righteousness, and justification in Jesus Christ?

However, since you only preach the resurrected Christ as necessary,

Death is necessary to be raised from the dead. But only the resurrection after death makes atonement by sprinkling of blood.

No man is imputed righteousness and justified by any faith nor doctrine in His death alone.

Rom 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Until readers take God's words seriously, they'll continue to believe and teach whatever they like. There is no salvation for any man, that does not believe in Jesus Christ's resurrection. There is therefore no salvation for any person before His resurrection. There is therefore no forgiveness of sins and imputed righteousness before His resurrection.

1 + 1 = 2 It's not rocket science, but faith in God's own words.

Any faith and doctrine in Jesus' death alone before His resurrection, is not any faith in Jesus Christ. Our faith that saves and justifies us with God, is in the resurrected man Christ Jesus. His eternal work of atonement and redemption is by His resurrection, not by His death alone.

I could use the same reasoning you do and say that you teach that Christ's crucifixion isn't necessary.

Only if someone were to ignorantly preach His death wasn't necessary for His resurrection from the dead.

Non sequitur.

The atonement made by God is first death, and then sprinkling after death, which is not possible without blood shed unto death. (Notwithstanding some imagined shed-sprinkling at the same time while alive...)

 

[RBDERRICK]

, bearing in his flesh the penalty for our sin

The penalty He paid with His body, was for submitting to the hands and justice of sinners.

He did so in obedience to the Father's will, and not His own.

Isaiah{50:5} The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. {50:6} I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

His body was striped and marked by sinners sinning against Him unjustly. The prints in His hands are the sins of them that crucified Him. All sinners against Christ are imputed with nailing His hands to a cross, and continue to crucify Him to themselves today.

Isa 53:34He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

At the cross they were all unbelievers toward Jesus Christ. They did not believe He was the Son of God equal to God, nor that He would rise again from the dead. They falsely believed God was having the man Jesus smitten for sin of blasphemy.

Only unbelievers impute Jesus Christ with sin on the cross, not God the Father. The only ones at the cross, that the Father imputes sin, is all sinners on earth. The only one not imputed sin by the Father at the cross, is His Son Jesus Christ the righteous.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Only false accusers believe Jesus Christ was accursed of God on the cross, and worthy of death for blasphemy of calling Himself the Son of God.

Unbelieving Jews and Muslims give Him lip service as a great teacher and prophet from God, but believe He was cursed by God for vaunting Himself as equal with God.

And some Christians preach Jesus Christ was accursed of God on the cross, that they might believe they are imputed righteousness by killing Him.

Jesus Christ was illegally condemned and crucified, contrary to both the law of God and of Roman law.

so that we could be clothed in his righteousness.

Which is only by His resurrection with command to repent for His mercies sake.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Rom 13:14But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

We don't put on crucified Jesus, nor drink his shed blood. We put on the resurrected man Jesus Christ, and drink His sprinkled blood.

Rom 13:12The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

Eph 4:24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Only by resurrection from the dead can any one repent and be born again.

 

[RandyK]

Not by any old faith of sin, that still believes in sinning unto death....

"Faith of sin?" What is that?
"Belief in sinning unto death?" What is that?

Sinner's lukewarm progessive religion of chopping away at the old man of lust, hasn't even begun the good race of life, much less gotten anywhere near the prize....

"Chopping away at the old man of lust?" What is that?

The grace to cover sin with justification by faith alone in Christ, is the old license to sin, that Paul rebuked long ago...

"Grace to cover sin is the old license to sin?" How is that?

Whether calling it justification while sinning, justification for sinning, or a ticket to sin unto heaven, it's all the same thing...

"Justification for sinning?" Who is doing that?

Any religion of sinners gives license to want to do good, and still do evil...

"License to do evil while wanting to do good?" Who is doing that?

No man is redeemed from sins and trespasses by the grave and resurrection unto judgment...

"Redeemed from sins by the grave?" What is that?

And so, we have a full confession of one's own faith alone in Christ: Unbelief in doing God's righteousness. Only doing one's own spotted unrighteousness. Waiting unrepented to be made wholly new only after the grave. And in the meantime, walking unworthily...

"Unbelief in doing God's righteousness?" Who is doing that?

We are either walking worthy and are worthy now, or we are walking unworthy of resurrection unto life later, and only worthy of His just terror of judgment...

"Walking worthy of His just terror of judgment?" What does that mean?

You seem to condemn people for not using your strange terminology? I don't even know people who use your terminology?

Who has "unbelief in doing God's righteousness?
Who wants to do good but holds a "license to sin?"
Who is trying to be justified from sin by grace by holding an "old license to sin?"
Who is "chopping away the old man of lust?"
Who has the "faith of sin" and "belief in sinning unto death?"

 

[Free]

RBDERRICK ,

I'm going to bow out. You are intent on misunderstanding and misrepresenting what others believe, misusing biblical terminology, and not wanting to do proper study on what "justification" means.

 

[RandyK]

Judgment of guilt for His death is retroactive by sinning for ourselves.

You seem to want to undo the atonement Christ made for us on the cross. It is indeed forward-looking in applying that atonement to future sinners.

There is no retroactive justification by faith alone in Christ, especially not by His death alone.

Nobody is talking about "death alone" but you. But you are saying his death did not accomplish atonement, which is wrong.

By His sprinkling of blood from above, His hand prints are on the souls of them that obey Him.

"Sprinkling," under the Law, was symbolic of the presentation of Christ's blood before God on the cross--not in a ritual or ceremony that followed later.

1. That faith is confessed as one's own, and not the faith of Jesus Christ.

We are saved by our own faith--not the faith of Jesus Christ. Our own faith is not "faith alone" in the sense that faith has no object.

"Faith Alone" implies faith in Christ alone, as opposed to faith alone apart from Christ. You are pulling a "switcheroo" in your false definition of "Faith Alone."

And since you refuse to acknowledge this, you are stuck in a false definition of "Faith Alone."

 

[RBDERRICK]

It also seems that you don't understand what the main difference is--the work of Christ was the on cross; the work of the Trinity was the resurrection.

The work of Jesus Christ at the cross, was to submit to the hands of sinners. He finished the end of His life in the flesh on a cross.

His righteous work was to obey the Father and sin not, while being falsely accused, condemned, scourged, mocked, and crucified unto death.

His perfect work was to make no defense for Himself, so that even His own disciples could not believe He was Son of God and equal to God.

The righteous may die by abuse of law, or by mistaken accusation, but no righteous man in history, except Jesus Christ, has ever submitted to wilfull abuse of law and false accusation, without speaking one word in His own defense. Much less railing upon them that reviled Him.

Socrates submitted to the law of Athens, when he was being falsely accused and sentenced to death. But he did make a defence of himself in his Apology.

Only the guilty resigned to the law's verdict, will make no case of self-defence.

By the Son's perfect obedience to the Father's will on the cross, all at the crossed were convinced He must indeed have been guilty of blasphemy, and was not the Son of God as He said, nor would He rise again from the dead. The women going to His tomb after the Sabbath were there to anoint His dead body, not to watch Him rise again.

Isa 53:7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

1 Pe 2:22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

When the righteous man Jesus Christ died for the unrighteous sinners at the cross, they didn't believe nor know it. By His death alone, there is only another righteous Abel and prophet, that dies at the hands of the wicked. Only more righteous blood is shed upon the ground, to cry guilty.

Only by His resurrection from the dead can Jesus Christ offer mercy to His enemies that slew Him, and sprinkle the obedient with His precious blood of the Spirit.

Lev 1:4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him. And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

This is OT Scripture written before the death of Jesus Christ, for atonement by sprinkling the blood of natural bulls and goats.

1Pe 1:2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

This is NT Scripture written after Jesus Christ's resurrection, for atonement by sprinkling the blood of the Lamb of God.

Saving faith is in the resurrected man Christ Jesus, and justifying atonement is made by the risen Lamb of God.

 

[RandyK]

And so, you now openly preach your own faith alone, and not the faith of Jesus Christ.

I preach *our faith* and not *Christ's faith.* And I preach only faith *in Christ* as the object of our faith, and not faith *without Christ* as its object.

Your own definition of "Faith Alone" is not anybody's definition of "Faith Alone" but your own. And you've designed it so that you can beat to death something that doesn't even exist. You might as well be shouting at the wall!

"Faith Alone" does not mean "Faith Alone apart from Christ." It means "Faith that is directed to Christ alone." This is as opposed to "Faith that is directed to anything else other than Christ alone."

"Faith" and "Faith in Christ" are the same thing. "Faith" is a shortcut to "Faith in Christ."

Since you wish to ignore this, you can argue against your false "Faith" all you want. But you won't be proving a thing to those who identify "Faith Alone" as "Faith exclusively in Christ."

 

[RandyK]

No one is believing in Jesus Christ, nor has His Spirit and love, while doing unrighteousness against Him and man...

You are living in a semantical jungle. Those who claim to live in Christ while yet admitting they are sinners are not choosing to live in sin when they admit being sinners!

 

[RandyK]

Only the resurrection. Just a byproduct of no importance to the atonement made by the Lamb of God.

The Lamb of God died for our sins by shedding His blood. He is risen to make atonement for our sins by sprinkling His blood, on them that repent of our sins that shed His blood.

You are arguing the means of redemption by misapplying the Law of Moses to NT atonement. And you are redefining NT atonement as "just the resurrection."

In reality, NT atonement is not a 2 step process of shedding blood and then sprinkling later. It is not "just the resurrection."

Rather, it is the blood of Christ that terminates the Old Covenant so that we may inherit his riches of Eternal Life. The death of the parent means the inheritance of the heirs becomes immediately available--not later, when a supposed "sprinkling event" takes place.

Your terminology mixes up Old Testament and New Testament. Why you do this I don't know except perhaps you wish to understand atonement in your own terms? Unfortunately, you are scrambling biblical terminology in order to sell your own wares.