Lukewarm believers and faith

[Free]

Justification by faith alone apart from our works, is no different than any other hypocrite religion on earth.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (ESV)

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. (ESV)

I have posted those (and others) numerous times and you have yet to provide a response of substance that actually deals with what the verses state. Works, even righteous works, do not justify anyone; they are evidence of a person who is already justified.

Provide the biblical definitions of justification and we'll talk. I have asked you for that numerous times and you have yet to do so. Until then, you're being willfully ignorant. That is not only unbecoming of someone who professes to follow Christ, since it shows you're not actually interested in truth but only in your own opinion, but it results in you teaching a false gospel.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Again, please provide one verse that says works are justified, or unjustified.

God judges us by our works. Our works are judged by God to justify the innocent, and condemn the guilty.

Which includes our words, as well as deeds.

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Matth 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Your continual, purposeful misrepresentation of others' positions is a significant problem.

So are your's. Which I have recorded, such as:

You are pitting the cross against the resurrection, which is a serious error and offense to Christ by making his work on the cross meaningless.

I have been corrected twice, when something is sufficiently clarified for me. Others preach their own faith alone in Christ, while you preach your faith alone in Christ. Believing in being atoned for at the cross alone, is not believing in Jesus' death alone.

You refuse correction in any of your misrepresentations.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Incorrect. Adding works to justification is a false gospel

Another misrepresentation added to the list.

I preach the Scripture's exhortation to add works to our faith, to ensure our election in Christ Jesus, and His warning against not adding His virtuous, godly, and charitable works to our faith.

I have never taught adding 'works to justification'. That is a nonsense statement by a corrupt version of 2 Peter 1:5-9.

If you were to ever show any error in the sense I give of the Scriptures I quote, then you would correct my teaching of them. But, you never even attempt to do so. You only ignore what I offer and just repeat your own teachings, or misrepresent what I say to degrade the teaching into something foolish or nonsensical.

 

[RandyK]

The doctrine of justification by faith alone, while disobeying Him, is all that disobedient believers trust in to resurrect themselves unto life.


Which has nothing to do with being justified by faith alone, while disobeying Him.

All works are doctrinally forbidden to be judged for one's justification or condemnation. The Father will go ahead and jhudge them by our works anyway. Faith and doctrine alone notwithstanding.

Your position is confusing and wrong. You obviously cannot represent what Faith Alone really teaches. Give it up.

 

[RBDERRICK]

This is blatantly false and a misrepresentation of what justification by faith alone means.


This is blatantly false and a misrepresentation of what justification by faith alone means.


This is blatantly false and a misrepresentation of what justification by faith alone means.


This is blatantly false and a misrepresentation of what justification by faith alone means.


This is blatantly false and a misrepresentation of what justification by faith alone means.

RBDERRICK:
Such doctrines of having faith alone in Christ include: There is now no more condemnation for doing unrighteousness, by grace God cannot see our sinning, by spiritual resurrection alone we are now and forever reigning with Christ, our soul is justified not our works, what we do is not who we are, repentance is of the mind alone not of works, eternal security of the soul apart from the works we do, complete justification at once with incomplete gradual sanctification, etc...

As I said, these are ancilliary doctrines some add their own teaching of justification by faith alone, apart from works.

You say they are false, and of course I completely agree. But do you really disagree with them?

1. If you disobey Christ, are you condemned with the children of disobedience, or are you still justified by your faith alone in Christ?

2. Does grace cover your acts of disobedience, so that God cannot condemn you?

3. Is your soul unconditionally and eternally secured in Christ, by your faith alone in Christ?

4. Are you now and forever spiritually reigning with Christ, so that the second death by judgment of works cannot apply to you?

Which of these do not apply to you, and you don't believe nor teach it for yourself?

 

[RBDERRICK]

We are justified at once, at the moment we are imputed the righteousness of Christ. That happens when we repent and put our trust in Christ and his work.

True. The moment any man repents from dead works for Jesus' sake, we are wholly washed, sanctified, and justified by Jesus Christ.

1Co 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

No one doing unrighteousness is washed, sanctified, justified, nor inheriting the kingdom of God by resurrection from the dead, in the likeness of Jesus Christ.

I have also stated before that the NT clearly speaks of sanctification as something that has happened and something that continues to happen. It is spoken of in both past and present tense.

True. Whole sanctification begins with repentance from dead works, and continues the same without dead works.

The same sanctification of obedience to God when newborn, continues the same with obedience to God.

Col 2:6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

That's fine. I've given Scripture many times that shows our sanctification is also ongoing.

Exactly. God's washing, sanctification, and justification remains ongoing with obedience to His word and will.

1Jo 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

 

[RandyK]

RBDERRICK:
Such doctrines of having faith alone in Christ include: There is now no more condemnation for doing unrighteousness, by grace God cannot see our sinning, by spiritual resurrection alone we are now and forever reigning with Christ, our soul is justified not our works, what we do is not who we are, repentance is of the mind alone not of works, eternal security of the soul apart from the works we do, complete justification at once with incomplete gradual sanctification, etc...

As I said, these are ancilliary doctrines some add their own teaching of justification by faith alone, apart from works.

You say they are false, and of course I completely agree. But do you really disagree with them?

1. If you disobey Christ, are you condemned with the children of disobedience, or are you still justified by your faith alone in Christ?

2. Does grace cover your acts of disobedience, so that God cannot condemn you?

3. Is your soul unconditionally and eternally secured in Christ, by your faith alone in Christ?

4. Are you now and forever spiritually reigning with Christ, so that the second death by judgment of works cannot apply to you?

Which of these do not apply to you, and you don't believe nor teach it for yourself?

You unfortunately conflate the definition of "Faith Alone" with some of the problems some people have with it. For example, you obviously have a problem with "Faith Alone" but are not properly defining it as it really is.

I accept that some people use the doctrine of Grace as a license for sin. Paul recognizes that...
Rom 6.1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
Rom 6.What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
Rom 7.7What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not!

The doctrine of Grace is not "evil" simply because some people abuse it or misinterpret it. Neither is the doctrine of "Faith Alone" "evil" simply because you mis-define it, and some abuse it.

You've been told that "Faith Alone" does not preclude doing good works as Christians who operate by faith in Christ. And yet you continue to double down on your examples of abuses of those who claim "Faith Alone" and pursue an antinomian existence. But this is not the definition of "Faith Alone." You continue to ignore that.

Similarly, Predestination and our ultimate Salvation in the Kingdom of Heaven are not justifications for living a sinful life even if some wish to use them as such. They do not, by their excesses and abuses, define what "Faith Alone" really is. And yet, you continue to do just that.

Why are you so incorrigible? Go ahead and point out the excesses, but don't mis-define what "Faith Alone" is! "Faith Alone" does not preclude the work of repentance that is done when we turn to faith in Christ. "Faitih Alone" merely denies us our own self-justification, leaning exclusively on the redemption that Christ won for us at the cross.

It is your insistence that the Resurrection is somehow superior to Christ's Death on the Cross that confuses this further. We are told repeatedly that Christ won our redemption *at the cross* and *by his blood.* And yet you insist that the real importance lies with the Resurrection, as if little was actually accomplished when Christ died for our sins!

You confuse people with your own speculations. You need to go back fresh to the Scriptures and trust the Apostles to give you the right words. Please do that!

 

[Free]

Another misrepresentation added to the list.

I preach the Scripture's exhortation to add works to our faith, to ensure our election in Christ Jesus, and His warning against not adding His virtuous, godly, and charitable works to our faith.

I have never taught adding 'works to justification'. That is a nonsense statement by a corrupt version of 2 Peter 1:5-9.

If you were to ever show any error in the sense I give of the Scriptures I quote, then you would correct my teaching of them. But, you never even attempt to do so. You only ignore what I offer and just repeat your own teachings, or misrepresent what I say to degrade the teaching into something foolish or nonsensical.

You said that in response to this: "Adding works to justification is a false gospel."

So, you state in the quote above: "I have never taught adding 'works to justification'."

But, you just stated this in post #420, 45 minutes ago: "Justification by faith alone apart from our works, is no different than any other hypocrite religion on earth."

That is such an obvious contradiction, there is no point in even trying to address your statements. It's like you don't even know what you're saying from one post to the next, or there is a serious gap in your understanding and you refuse correction.

And, you have also taught justification by works elsewhere:

"Scripture is all about keeping the law of God, including being justified by works of faith" and "By James 2, I was refuting justification by faith alone, apart from any works we do." HERE

"We are justified by good works sprinkled with His blood." HERE

"Only by doing His works of faith are we justified with Him.

Seeking to be justified by faith alone, apart from doing good, is only in the imagination of man." HERE

How about this topic you started which was dedicated to teaching justification by works: The problem with not being justified by our works

I could go on and on with examples.

There are at least three main problems. First, you don't understand the biblical definitions of justification. Second, you use biblical terms in ways the Bible doesn't use them, which is incredibly confusing and, I suspect, is what continually leads you to misunderstand what others are saying. Understanding biblical terms and how the Bible uses them is essential to understanding what the Bible says and having correct doctrine. Three, you don't seem to have actually studied what "faith alone" means, and seem intent on not listening to what others here are telling you it means. That all makes for very poor discussion.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Of course, but righteous works do not justify us.

Unrighteous works do not justify any man.

1Co 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Nor, are we justified by only agreeing our works do not justify us. Only repentance from unrighteous works for Jesus' sake, justifies us with the Father.

Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Where is that given in Scripture? Do you mean "the righteous faith of Jesus" or "the righteousness of Jesus"?

Both of course. There is not one without the other. No man's faith is righteous, while doing unrighteousness.

Only by repentance from doing unrighteous works, can any man recieve the gift of Jesus' faith, and do His righteousness as He does, through His righteous faith.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

1 John{2:29} If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

The faith of sinners doing unrighteousness, is not the faith of Jesus Christ the righteous. No one doing unrighteousness is born of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Faith must logically come first, because we are dead in our sins and only a work of the Holy Spirit can cause us to want to repent.

True. By the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Spirit of grace is now poured upon all flesh, and reproving all the world of sins and trespasses.

The tender hearted with godly sorrow, can now repent in the name of Jesus Christ, unto His saving deliverance from all the world's sins and trespasses. The Jew first and also the Gentile.

2 Cor 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Please use biblical terms correctly, as the Bible uses them, as it is quite confusing trying to figure out what you're saying. There is no such thing, biblically, as "the unrepentant sinner's own faith."

Are you saying sinners have no faith in anything, nor in Christ, nor in any god? Are you saying sinners have no faith nor religion of their own?

James 1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons... But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

James 2 is not preaching against having no faith in Christ, but is rebuking any faith in Christ, while committing unrighteousness.

Any faith in Christ while sinning against God, is dead to God, even as the soul is dead by sin.

The doctrine of justification by our faith alone in Christ, apart from our deeds, is false. Because God judges our faith is not in His righteous Son Jesus Christ, but in another Christ that justifies people, while they are doing evil and not good.

James 1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons..

Jesus Christ declares that no one doing unrighteousness, has His righteous faith in Him, but only has their faith in another unrighteous Christ.

Mark 13:22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

A false Christ decieves the hearers into believing their faith is in Jesus Christ alone, when their faith is another Christ to justify them, while committing sin and doing not good.

 

[RandyK]

Unrighteous works do not justify any man.

You are conflating and confusing Validation with Justification. "Justification" has employed a technical meaning which you are conflating with a non-technical meaning of the word "justification."

"Justification,"in the technical sense, refers to what Jesus did for us on the cross--something we cannot do for ourselves. When I refer to "Validation," I'm referring to authenticating our Faith with Works that accompany Faith.

Gentuine Faith produces repentance, works done in Christ, and conformity to the object of our Faith, which is Christ himself. Inauthentic Faith is not validated by the characteristics necessary to authenticate that Faith.

We must validate our Faith with Works. But Justification comes by the work of Christ alone in providing an atonement for our sins *at the cross.* "Faith Alone" is the equation we use for identifying Christ as our exclusive source of Justification, as opposed to any effort to self-atone or to justify ourselves by our own works.

Obviously, you are not going to get this--you certainly haven't thus far, despite the constant challenges to your errant views. So I'm sharing just to ensure that others who read this don't get it wrong, and follow your bad theology.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Faith in Christ encompasses all that Christ represents, his atonement, as well as his gift of resurrection to believers.

Resurrection in Jesus' likeness is not a gift, but the inherited reward for doing His will unto the end.

Collosians{3:23} And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; {3:24} Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

The only true way of Jesus Christ to do His will, is through the gift of His own righteous faith to them that repent of our own dead works.

Collosians{3:23} And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; {3:24} Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. {3:25} But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

The division between Christian tares doing evil, and Christian saints doing good, is made at His judgment seat. With His friends and wheat resurrecting and rising to meet Him in the air, and His enemy tares left on earth and judged with the world.

 

[RBDERRICK]

The Law was a typology of the New Covenant. Since they were 2 distinct covenants, they operated in different ways. They can be compared in some ways, but since they are different they cannot be compared in the *exact same way.*

The earthly pattern of the old foreshadows the heavenly to come in Christ Jesus.

Atonement is not made by killing the sacrifice alone, but also by sprinkling the blood, and now with hands of the Lord.

For example, you cannot say that under the Law animals, or beasts, were offered as sacrifices and killed by priests, and so Christ could not have been sacrificed as a man and killed by the Romans.

Correct. Both were killed by shed blood. Both were innocent of sin.

However, the old were killed with claen hands unto the Lord. Jesus was killed by wicked hands for their own pleasure.

Neither can you say that collecting blood and sprinkling it on things has to be done in the *same exact way* under the New Covenant!

Correct. The dead animals had their blood sprinkled by hands of men on earth. The blood of Jesus Christ is sprinkled by Himself from heaven.

No hands sprinkled His blood at the cross. Nor is God's atonement made by bleed the sacrifice out over the people.

Therefore, the "sprinkling of Christ's blood" was a heavenly phenomenon.

Correct. Upon them that repent on earth. The blood of bulls and goats on earth sprinkled on the flesh, could not cleanse the conscience. The blood of the risen Lamb of God is sprinkled upon the soul and conscience from above.

That is when our sanctification was made available, along with the cleansing of our consciences.

Not without sprinkling of blood.

Your death only sacrifice for atonement of sins, is your's alone by your own faith alone. It's not God's atonement made by the risen Lamb of God, through the operation of the Spirit, by faith in God raising Him from the dead.

Christ provided for our Salvation *in advance* at his death,

God ordained His salvation at the beginning. He did not provide for any salvation until after the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lamb of God.

And that salvation is only provided for them that repent of all their transgressions for Jesus sake. Jesus' salvation is deliverance from all sins and trespasses, not with any spots remaining.

so that after his resurrection his Spirit could be dispensed and given to us

True. With the sprinkling of His blood and atonement made for the souls of them that repent.

Another difference between the sprinkling of blood of bulls, and that of the Lamb of God, is that His blood is only sprinkled on them that repent of their sins, and not upon all people standing by.

His sprinkling is not in general, but is only indiviudally one at a time.

 

[RBDERRICK]

According to this, the will was dispensed or given to the heirs *at the point of Christ's death.* That is when the New Covenant took effect, even before Christ rose from the dead.

Ok. So, you are now also willing to preach a covenant made by Jesus' death alone, before and without His resurrection from the dead 3 days later.

1Co 15:14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
Any faith in a testament and atonement made at the death of Jesus, is vain.

Our faith is in the resurrected man Christ Jesus, to be born again into His new covenant and atonement made by His death, burial, and resurrection from the dead.

Rom 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1 Peter{1:3} Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

No Scripture speaks of any atonement, covenant, nor salvation by faith in Jesus' death alone, without His resurrection.

so that we may live in that Sanctification and in that Justification.

Not while disobeying Him with spotty unrighteousness.

 

[RandyK]

Resurrection in Jesus' likeness is not a gift, but the inherited reward for doing His will unto the end.

You've lost all credibility. Salvation is a Gift! We do *not* earn our Resurrection as a reward for our Works!

1 Peter 3.7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

Again, you conflate different meanings of a word. A "reward" can be a trophy that is earned, but in the context of Salvation, Salvation itself is *not* earned. We can be rewarded for our fidelity to the Salvation we are given as a Gift. But we do not earn that Salvation!

 

[RandyK]

Ok. So, you are now also willing to preach a covenant made by Jesus' death alone, before and without His resurrection from the dead 3 days later.

Yes, and you choose to disbelieve the Bible! It is at the parents' death that the heirs receive their inheritance. And our inheritance of Eternal Life came when Jesus died. That is when we were redeemed--not at his resurrection.

Gal 4.2 The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3 So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces of the world. 4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

No Scripture speaks of any atonement, covenant, nor salvation by faith in Jesus' death alone, without His resurrection.

All you're saying is a truism, that the one who died is the one who rose from the dead. Nobody is questioning that.

But did Christ's death achieve our Salvation? Yes. This Salvation was achieved on our behalf even before Jesus was raised from the dead. Obviously, it was known in advance that the one who would win our Salvation on the cross would also rise from the dead.

What you're trying to do is define the specific Work that Christ did to atone for our Sin. It was his *Work on the Cross* that brought our Salvation. It was not any supposed Work of Resurrection, if it can even be called that?, that brought about our Salvation.

You are a unfortunately pursuing a confusion of what Christ's death meant, which was a suffering for others. It was his suffering the sins of men that brought about our forgiveness--not his resurrection!

 

[RBDERRICK]

I agree that God Himself is not unjust and evil. But that does not mean He cannot use evil. He uses evil not by being evil Himself, but by steering it in a way that it is manifested in a certain direction.

Neither does He justify anyone doing evil. Their faith and doctrine notwithstanding.

Rom 2:9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.

God has no respect for any person's faith and doctrine, when doing evil.

God did steer evil men to bring out their sin, in their children and grandchildren,

God doesn't steer any man into doing evil.

Jas 1:13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

God doesn't even tempt any man to sin, much less will and direct it.

Isa 14:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Lucifer steered himself into rebellion against God, and so do all men that disobey Him by their own lust alone.

Clearly, God anticipated it. This does not mean He is acting with the evil He is directing.

God and the Word knew from the beginning what would happen. Neither God nor the Lamb directs any evil, nor any angel and man into evil.

Clearly, this false accusation against God is in conjunction with the lie, that God predestines what people will do, and subsequently 'directs' them to do evil unto condemnation.

By obedience to the will of the Father, Jesus sumbitted Himself meekly into the hands of sinners. Neither the Father nor the Son 'directed' those hands into unlawfully crucifying Him to death.

It was the Father's will for Jesus Christ to submit to sinners at the hour of His choosing. It was not the Father's will for any man to falsely accuse and kill Him. God allows evil to be done by creation of creatures in His image, But He is not the Author nor Director of any evil done by angels nor men.

All at the cross believed it was God's lawful will to kill Jesus for blasphemy. They were all wrong and concluded in false accusation against the Father, and unbelief in His Sonship and resurrection.

Preknowing what will happen by watching it happen before, is not predirecting what happens at the time.

He is, on the contrary, acting to bring judgment to the evil and forgiveness to the repentant. God tolerates evil for only so long, in order to allow people to choose the direction they want to go in.

True. God actively submitted to the hands of sinners in meekness and righteousness. God did so in order to die for all men's sins, and by His resurrection to forgive any man's sins that repent.

He allowed His own blood to be shed unto death at the cross, that He might rise from the dead and allow men to repent, and be sprinkled by His own blood unto life.

But ultimately, God will bring an end to the injustice and evil that is allowed to be perpetrated only for a time.

Not necessarily. Righteous judgment of law will be executed equally and swiftly during His millinnium on this earth.

But, we also see that complete obedience of all men dwelling with God on the new earth, will only be in New Jerusalem, where the throne of God and the Lamb is.

Outside the walls and gates will still be disobedience and death. But if any man repents to enter the gates, there is healing from the tree of life.

 

[RBDERRICK]

You can't seem to get things right, either in what the Scriptures say or in what others say. I'm not saying the resurrection is unimportant.

His resurrection was not until 3 days after your doctrine of a new covenant and atonement made at His death.

That's not only unimportant, but not even existent.

After all, it was for our sins that we received a death sentence.

It's because of man's sins, that He recieved the death sentence by unrighteous men. It was wicked unbelievers that sentence Him to death.

Mar 14:64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Isaiah{50:5} The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. {50:6} I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

God does not sentence any innocent to death by law, especially not His own Son. Nor does God direct any wicked hands to slay the righteous, especially not to scourge and crucify Jesus Christ on a cross.

God willed His Son to submit to hands of men. He was not the Author of their sinful deeds against Him. The marks and stripes on His body were the sins of them He submitted to, not the execution of God's law.

God directing men to do evil is a lie of the devil, and accusing the Father of directing evil men to crucify His own righteous Son, is a deeper lie of Satan.

Rev 2:24But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, that they speak;

The wicked accusers of Jesus Christ both at the cross and today, declare God was smiting and cursing His own Son for blasphemy of calling Himself Son of God.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

 

[RBDERRICK]

I did not suggest "shedding alone," and not "sprinkling of blood," was necessary with Christ.

You left out sprinkling and only spoke of shedding, until the Scriptures were shown for both shedding and sprinkling.

You then tried out a sprinkle shedding at the same time.

Christ literally spilled his blood, and not animal blood, on the cross.

Wicked men shed and spilled His blood. People committing suicide spill their blood.

Jesus did not commit suicide by cross. Nor did the Father have Him arrested and killed by law.

That's when the blood was "sprinkled" spiritually before God in heaven.

There is no shed-sprinkling of blood to make atonement by God.

The blood of Jesus was shed unto death. His blood is now sprinkling unto life.

Christ did not have to fly a jet to heaven to sprinkle his blood there, before his Father.

No. He resurrected and ascended to heaven to sprinkle His blood from the throne of God:

Heb 1:3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

He just had to die, with angels and men being witnesses.

With angels that sinned and all men being guilty of His death.

A New Testament atonement obviously is not made under another, different Testament!

Correct. Which is why His NT blood is not sprinkled under the OT on the cross.

The NT atonement was *not* made under the OT Law!

True. The heavenly pattern of the law of atonement, is now made by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[RBDERRICK]

You've been told that "Fatih Alone" was designed to dismiss any claim that our Works in themselves obtain our Salvation.

So long as any faith alone dismisses works from justification, it is desiged to justify the disobedient by their faith alone.

The argument is not against our own works without Christ saving and justifying us with God.

The argument is against present works against Christ having nothing to do with being saved and justified by faith alone.

So unless you believe your Works, apart from Christ, can get you to heaven, then you must also be "Faith Alone?"

No. If I did believe in getting to heaven by my faith alone, that is set apart from my works, then I would also beleive and teach faith alone.

"Faith Alone" does not mean that a person can have Faith and ignore the need to do good works, or live in righteousness. That is not "Faith Alone." And yet, you continue to assert that that is the meaning of the term, or imply that it is so.

When you disobey God and do an unrighteous work of the flesh, are you justified by your faith alone in Christ, or condemned with the world doing the same thing?

by declaring that Faith is all that matters, and that nothing we do has any value with God.

This is nonsensical. No one says their works have no value with God or man in this life.

This is not the argument against justification by the faith alone, that says our justification is set apart from any works we do.

That's the lie that says the soul is justified by faith alone, even when the soul is doing iniquity. Any faith we have while doing evil, is as dead to God as the soul doing the evil.

What he did justify is the reality that we are sinners in constant need of mercy.

True. Sinners disobeying the Lord, are in need of the longsuffering mercy of God to not die in their sins and trespasses, unto the ressurrection of shame.

Rom 2:3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

2 Peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 1:15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Saul of Tarsus was a chief example of the longsuffering mercy of the Lord, until he repented of his wicked deeds for Jesus' sake. That is when he became an elect son of God and chosen chief apostle for blameless and holy living by the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Unless you think you're sinless, you should get behind Luther.

All saints in Christ Jesus are sinless as He is, by circumcision of His Spirit, and righteous as He is, by walking with Him after His Spirit.

1Jo 3:5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

Jhn 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

The children of disobedience, that still have their lust and sin untaken away by the risen lamb of God, must still repent of their deeds by the longsuffering of the Lord, lest they die with their lust and sins unto condemnation and contempt.

Luke{13:2} And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? {13:3} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

No faith in Christ justifies unrepentance against God. Such unrighteous faith is in another Christ, not in Jesus Christ the righteous.