Lukewarm believers and faith

[RBDERRICK]

That is a judgmental statement, meaning that you cannot make a divine proclamation about what is in the heart of all Catholics when they perform penitence in front of a priest, or Confession.

Repentance is not penitence done by commandment of men.

Mat 15:9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Whether repentance is done in the presence of other Christians or not is not determinative as to whether it is truly being done before God.

Repentance is not done. Repentance is not doing.

By repentance from our dead works, we are imputed and justified with Christ without works repented of.

 

[RandyK]

Repentance is not penitence done by commandment of men.

False, God required that we submit to one another, and give double honor to our religious leaders. Sometimes they may wish to command things to maintain orderly practices in the church, and God would have us to submit to that.

1 Cor 7.10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord)...
1 Cor 11.1 Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.

Mat 15:9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Repentance is not done. Repentance is not doing.

By repentance from our dead works, we are imputed and justified with Christ without works repented of.

Are you suggesting that *all* Christians who take Communion in a particular tradition, formed by human leaders, are worshiping God in vain? If so, you've placed yourself on the throne of God, judging Christians simply for carrying out what God has told them to do!

 

[RandyK]

So long as any faith alone dismisses works from justification, it is desiged to justify the disobedient by their faith alone.

I've told you numerous times that nobody who believes in Faith Alone dismisses doing works in Christ! That you continually fall back on this to falsely claim Christians don't do works is evidence of your incorrigibility.

The only works that Christians dismiss from their Justification is the Work of Justificatioin itself, which is Christ's Work of Atonement. We have absolutely nothing to do with that! None of our Christian Works has anything to do with Self-Atonement.

Since you insist on claiming the same falsehoods, I won't go any further with your post. It seems a waste of time, except that I want to go on record in front of others, who read your falsehoods, that they are false.

 

[RandyK]

You left out sprinkling and only spoke of shedding, until the Scriptures were shown for both shedding and sprinkling.

You then tried out a sprinkle shedding at the same time.

I've never separated "shedding and sprinkling." That is your thing--not mine. They refer to OT rituals that were fulfilled *at the Cross.* You're stuck in OT rituals.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I did not suggest "shedding alone," and not "sprinkling of blood," was necessary with Christ.

It was his shed blood that bought our redemption.

First you only said the blood was shed. The Scripture was given that God's atonement is only made by shedding and sprinkling the blood.

it is the blood of Christ, shed on the cross, that provides an atonement for our sins. That is what the "sprinkling of Christ's blood" refers to--not his resurrection.

Then you said His blood was shed-sprinkled from the cross. And the Scripture was given that the blood is shed unto death first, and then sprinkled by hand.

Christ literally spilled his blood, and not animal blood, on the cross. That's when the blood was "sprinkled" spiritually before God in heaven.

Now you say His blood was shed on the cross unto death, and then at that time God sprinkled it from heaven, before Jesus' resurrection.

And so now Scripture says the High Priest must both shed and sprinkle the blood for atonement.

Lev 16:11And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:...And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.

Therefore, God the Father in heaven could not sprinkle the blood of Jesus Christ, to make atonement for the people, because the resurrected Lamb of God is our High Priest.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

This is what happens when someone preaches their own view, rather than Scripture, and refuses to have their view changed by Scripture. They must continue to scramble along with their view, in order to appear to be agreeing with Scripture.

This is how God has foreseen all errors and lies about His word, and so written His Scriptures not only to expose them, but also lead them refusing correction down a ditch of their own digging.

Job 5:13He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

2Co 4:2But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

2Co 1:12For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The simplicity of Christ is to simply believe God's words of Himself and His Son and atonement, and to teach the simple sense of al His words together:

The blood of Jesus Christ was shed unto death on a cross, and the blood of the risen man Christ Jesus is now sprinkled by Himself from heaven.

Thus the sacrifice is killed on earth, and the atonement is made in heaven, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ ascending into the heavens, where He sits forever the High Priest of God sprinkling His own blood to atone for them that repent and obey Him on earth.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Simple Scripture taken together by the Spirit of truth. Not the erroneous, confusing, and morphing views of sinful men on earth.

 

[RandyK]

First you only said the blood was shed. The Scripture was given that God's atonement is only made by shedding and sprinkling the blood.

Yes, blood is "shed!"

Then you said His blood was shed-sprinkled from the cross.

Yes, that's where Jesus' blood was shed! It was *at the cross* that his blood was shed.

So you are suggesting that I'm contradicting myself, that I'm saying 2 contradictory things, that the "blood was shed" and that it was "shed at the cross?"

I cannot fathom your thinking on this? There is no contradiction here! Jesus' blood was shed on the cross. And that is also where it was "sprinkled" before God.

This is because what happened on the cross and what happened at the Temple were 2 distinctly different things! The shed blood of Jesus and the sprinkling of it were very different from the shed blood of animals and the sprinkling of their blood by the priests under the Law.

It's amazing that you cannot get this! I think you're too hooked into the system by which the OT operated and fail to realize that it only demonstrated the principles Jesus was to fulfill--not the exact rituals that Jesus had to perform.

Col 2.16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

 

[RBDERRICK]

You "corrected" me how? I have for quite some time said that we have physical DNA and spiritual DNA.

Not the man Jesus, which you say had different flesh and blood than all men.

Obviously, Jesus' physical DNA and spiritual DNA were different from other men. Jesus shared blood in common with other men, but I would never say his blood was exclusively like that of other men.

The correction is preaching another Christ, that comes in another kind of flesh than all men. Such an angel, but certainly not a man.

That is, we inherit human attributes from our parents,

True. The physical shape of man on earth is unique to man alone.

and we inherit the Sin Nature from our forefathers,

Jesus Christ does not create any person in the image of the devil.

And here's your problem. You define "flesh" differently from how I define it. I don't think Jesus had the same "flesh" that Adam had.

See above.

Any Christ coming in another flesh than man's, is not a man.

The Scriptures refer to "flesh" in the sense of its post-sin state of being, and not in its original pristine state of being.

The Scripture speaks of natural flesh and grass the same: Neither good nor evil, but only made naturally mortal by Christ.

The Scripture also speaks of man lusting and walking after the flesh, rather than the Spirit.

In both cases, the flesh is not the devil, but them lusting and sinning with the flesh are the children of the devil.

The "flesh" speaks of "carnality" and independent judgment, separate from God's word.

The one in the flesh and lusting for the flesh, is the evil one, not the earthen vessel that naturally does what the person wills.

Jesus did not inherit that Sin Nature from Adam, although I wouldn't deny the humanity of Jesus--if you claim I said that you're patently dishonest.

It's patently obvious that any creature with different flesh than man, is not a man. Whether ape, christ, or angel.

Here I think you're wrong again. People created in the image of God, such as Adam and Eve, or King David, had bodies of flesh and were created with a sinful human spirit.

Then Jesus with the same seed and flesh of David, had a body of sinful flesh prepared for Him by the Spirit, from the flesh of Mary a daughter of David and Abraham and Noah and Adam.

Or, we can believe the simple truth of Scriptures, that all flesh and grass are created by Christ naturally mortal.

They had a Sin Nature, after the Fall. Yes, God made them that way after the Fall.

Any accusation against Christ creating any creature sinful, is false. Any God preached making man that way, is the false god of this world, not Jesus Christ.

Jhn 1:3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made...In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jas 1:13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Some hardened unrepenting sinners will believe anything to justify themselves by a lying faith of their own, including "God made me that way." Or, "It's not my fault I was born this way..." Or worst of all, "My body made me do it."

The most childish and devilish lie of sinful Christianity, is that Jesus Christ, whom they name, is the Author and Maker of their unrepented lust and sinful way.

I don't claim Satan has the power of creation--no more than people have the power of creation.

I know. You only say God the Creator made you evil that way from birth.

Which of course is worse then saying "The devil made me do it."

 

[RandyK]

Not the man Jesus, which you say had different flesh and blood than all men.

I will say it again: Jesus had typical human flesh/human DNA. It was "different" only in the sense that he was perfect/sinless.

Furthermore, each of us have differences within our human DNA. Jesus had his own personality which, different from typical human personalities, also indicated he was the Divine Personality.

I'll leave it at that, to keep it simple.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Yes, Christians who by faith put into motion Christ's righteousness in their lives are still viewed as "sinners."

True. Spotty sinful Christians certainly do and are. Any faith putting more sinning into motion, is sinful faith, not the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ.

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with fornication, theft, lying, idolatry...

The unrighteous doing such things have not the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ, but their own sinful faith alone, while falsely naming Christ.

2Ti 2:19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

They don't live as sinners, but they remain tainted with sin. They remain saddled with the Sin Nature, which they have an obligation to regularly overcome.

Anyone alive on earth committing sin against God, is a living sinner on earth.

So long as lust is untaken away from the heart by the circumcision of Jesus Christ, the soul is still dead to God.

Rom 11:27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jhn 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

2Pe 1:3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue.Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

There is a big difference between the Buddhist who "sins less" and the Christian who lives a life "overcoming sin."

Not if both have the lust of the world corrupting the heart, and untaken away by Jesus Christ. Which of course is by not repenting of all sins and trespasses for Jesus's sake.

No one doing unrighteousness on earth, is overcoming sin in life.

The Christian, for example, has emptied himself of any allegiance to his old independent life to live henceforth in partnership with the Spirit of Christ, choosing the way of Christ.

Not while spotting ourselves with the corruption of the world by lust.

You either need to preach doing righteousness as the Lord is righteous, or doing the spotty righteousness of man's religion. Trying to do the latter while appearing to do the former, is spotty at best.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

We try to make all of our choices in consultation with God so that what we do is "in Christ" regularly. This does not, however, render us "sinless."

Correct. Lust can try to do righteousness for a season, but in the end lust always ends in unrighteousness.

Man's religion by his own faith alone in Christ, controls the lust to sin less than before. Pure religion of Jesus Christ takes away the foreskin of the heart, and keeps the pure heart unspotted from the world.

We do not always succeed in submitting to the way of Christ.

No lusting sinners does. That's why Christ comes to save sinners from their own lust, by repenting of their own deeds for His sake.

Mark 2;17 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Your faith and gospel's consistent exceptions, qualifications, and equivocations for continued ungodliness are duly noted. Which after a time become exepected and old.

Rev 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Nor is the Sin Inclination eradicated from our spirits. We remain conscious of our rebellion and waywardness even as we seek, by our new nature, to overcome it and to prevail in the righteousness of Christ.

Rom 16:18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

The Gift of Life that Christ offers us involves the implantation of an entirely New Nature, by our simple choice to accept it.

The new agers do the same accepting of divine things for themselves, along with the same lust of old.

In doing so, we can not only "sin less,"

Same as Buddhists and New Agers. And their less sinning sometimes puts the less sinning Christians to shame.

but we have implanted within us the desire to be good. We want to be good *by nature,* and not just out of a guilty conscience.

And so, the religion of accepting divinity by faith alone, is wanting a divine nature without any guilty conscience, when doing less ungodly things.

 

[RBDERRICK]

He was already separate from sinners from conception, but he did live out his life making this separation from sinners clear.

And still separate from sinners, begining with Adam when He tansgressed, and continuing today with all transgressing and crucifying Him to themselves.

Jesus did not have different human flesh/skin

Nor blood.

Jesus had no internal sin.

Nor does any babe coming into the world.

Nor any newborn babe in Christ Jesus coming down from heaven.

Jesus' faith is not what made him Divine.

No. His faith kept Him living holily. And His faith keeps His saints living the same holiness as He walked.

Our faith helps us to live like him and in him because it is by faith that we accept his gift of righteousness.

Not if doing any unrighteousness. The faith of anyone doing unrighteousness, is unrighteous toward God.

Those doing His righteousness have the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ the righteous.

His word is free, and so is his redemption. And so, when we receive his word of redemption, offering us a new life, we can by faith receive a new nature that lives forever in the presence of God.

There is no nature doing unrighteousness that lives forever, nor is in the presence of God.

I'm not talking about superiority of human skin. It is the person of Jesus who was perfect. And since that person had human skin, I believe the skin was perfect, as well, though mortal and susceptible to earthly impacts.

If the flesh and blood is different than that of man, then the creature is not a man.

Anyone preaching a different flesh, blood, and DNA than that of man, is preaching a Christ that was not a man.

The Christ-creators preach a Christ that was a created angel come as a man, but not a man.

1Jo 2:18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2Jo 1:7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

There be many antichrists come preaching another Christ of flesh and blood, that is not of man. Which is usually with a more perfect flesh and blood than that of man.

One way to justify not walking as He walked, is by idolizing a Christ, that had not the same flesh and blood to walk with.

 

[RandyK]

True. Spotty sinful Christians certainly do and are. Any faith putting more sinning into motion, is sinful faith, not the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Sinful Faith" is not what anybody means by "Christian Faith."

Anyone alive on earth committing sin against God, is a living sinner on earth.

You are a "living sinner on earth" because you commit sin against God every day. And that's because you have a Sin Nature, and do not love people with a perfect love *all the time!*

No one doing unrighteousness on earth, is overcoming sin in life.

You do unrighteousness at times. Even your attitude towards your brothers in this forum is not always "perfect love."

Sometimes you are compelled to condemn or insult, and you capitulate to that willfully. Then you think about it, regret it, and try to get your attitude right with God.

Man's religion by his own faith alone in Christ, controls the lust to sin less than before. Pure religion of Jesus Christ takes away the foreskin of the heart, and keeps the pure heart unspotted from the world.

This is your own definition of "Faith Alone"--it is not the conventional definition. And so, you create a version that you can knock as inadequate or even evil.

True "Faith Alone" is not "Man's Religion." In fact, it is the exact oppossite.

True "Faith Alone" was designed to exclude "Man's Religion," or Self-Effort at Justification. We can only believe that Jesus died for our sins and bought our Justification. We cannot do the Work that Jesus did to die for our sins.

We can only believe he provided the atonement for our sins--something that "Faith Alone" says we cannot do. "Faith Alone" does not say we cannot will or act or work--it only says we cannot Work for our own Justification, or Self-Atone.

 

[RBDERRICK]

You think that redemption takes place only at the resurrection of Christ, and not at the death of Christ.

I preach from Scripture that no man is atoned for, redeemed, imputed righteousness, nor born again, but by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You disagree.

I preach all men that sinned are guilty of His shed blood and death at the cross. You disagree.

I preach Jesus Christ the righteous was the only lawful man at the cross imputed righteousness by God, and lawfully not imputed any sin. You disgree.

We both agree that the resurrection was critically important for our Salvation.

Not for 3 days after His death. While His body was in the grave, His resurrection had nothing to do with your personal view of atonement and redemption.

By your shed blood with sprinkling atonement, His resurrection was completely unimportant for 3 whole days in heaven and on earth.

And we both agree that repentance and obedience is a necessary part of Christianity.

No. Whole repentance and obdience is the new birth in Christ Jesus.

Your lukewarm repentance and spotty disobedience is a necessary part of your Christianity for appearances sake, not any part of Jesus Christ's pure religion.

We don't agree on the language.

This is certainly true. My language is plain as the Scriptures I preach, while your language shifts with your views you preach.

Which is why we disagree on the faith and gospel we preach, and live.

 

[RandyK]

I preach from Scripture that no man is atoned for, redeemed, imputed righteousness, nor born again, but by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You disagree.

Yes I do. Scripture indicates that man is atoned for by the blood of Jesus on his cross--not by the resurrection. References to our hope of resurrection through the resurrection of Jesus do not say that we are atoned by his resurrection!

Please provide any Scripture that says that? You've had provided to you many Scriptures that prove we had our sins atoned for on the cross by the blood of Jesus. That's where he forgive our sins because that's where he bore our sins.

I preach all men that sinned are guilty of His shed blood and death at the cross. You disagree.

I do? That's news to me! Where did I say that? Please quote...

I preach Jesus Christ the righteous was the only lawful man at the cross imputed righteousness by God, and lawfully not imputed any sin. You disgree.

Yes, Christ was the righteousness of God at the cross so that he could give us his righteousness, together with its spotless record, to fill in for our own flawed righteousness. That is called "imputation" of Christ's righteousness to us.

He transmits his life to us by the Spirit through the grace he showed us at the cross. He determined to give us his eternal life *after* demonstrating at the cross that he is willing to forgive all sin.

He does that by giving us his Spirit, who transmits that life to us, together with his righteousness. If you don't have his perfection imputed to you, your flawed righteousness will condemn you and separate you from God forever.

 

[RBDERRICK]

To be clear, I don't accept the language that it is the "faith of Jesus" that we adopt.

I know. You have not the faith of the Lord Jesus, which is why you keep not His commandments spotless.

Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

In my view, it is *our own faith* that we exercise in Jesus,

Your own faith alone, with them that exercise it spottily.

Not mine.

That is, Jesus is the object of our faith, and not "Jesus' faith."

Jesus is not an object of admiration. Nor an idol to be honored with lips, and disobeyed in word and deed.

Many idolize His life, while denying walking with Him.

We agree on this. Independent works are worthless with respect to Eternal virtues and Eternal Life.

True.

Our repentance obtains value when we make Christ the object of our faith and the means of our conversion to good works.

This is not the doctrine of imputed righteousness and justification by faith alone in Christ, that is set apart from any works worthy of repentance.

All thier repentance and works are only after the fact. And only partial at best. They never ever allow any repentance and works to be a means of conversion by faith alone.

Right. Acceptance alone falls short. However, Faith as expressed in the Protestant World normally does not separate "acceptance" and "doing." So you are arguing against aberrations, and not the orthodoxy of "Faith Alone."

Jesus Christ separates any choice of accepting Him, from repenting, believing, and doing His word. Protestant world notwithstanding.

You preach the protestant world views, and I'll preach the kingdom of God in Christ Jesus, according to the Scriptures.

 

[RBDERRICK]

God forgave mankind as Jesus died on the cross, for the things Israel did to him and for things all men do in disobedience to God.

And here we are. The natural conclusion of atonement for sins and the people made by Jesus' death alone. If the atonement is made on earth for all men, then all men on earth are already forgiven.

I've heard some Christians preach all men are now forgiven by the death of Jesus Christ. And so, all anyone needs do is 'recognize' it. Or, as some might say, 'accept' it.

The new agers also preach 'acceptance' theology. They say all men are already inwardly divine, and people just need to 'wake up' and accept how divine they really are.

Modern psychology also teaches acceptance therapy. Liberty begins by accepting ourselves as we are.

In neither case is repentance necessary to recieve the desired gift. Change for the better is hoped for and may come, but it is not necessary to accept the gift by faith alone.

Acceptance without repentance is assuming a gift for oneself, and then trying to act like it. In the Christian case, the gift is forgiveness, righteousness, and divine nature. The result is acting like Christ. Albeit spottily.

 

[RandyK]

And here we are. The natural conclusion of atonement for sins and the people made by Jesus' death alone. If the atonement is made on earth for all men, then all men on earth are already forgiven.

Non-sequitur.

I've heard some Christians preach all men are now forgiven by the death of Jesus Christ. And so, all anyone needs do is 'recognize' it. Or, as some might say, 'accept' it.

Some Christians fall short.

The new agers also preach 'acceptance' theology. They say all men are already inwardly divine, and people just need to 'wake up' and accept how divine they really are.

That's New Agers--not Christians.

Modern psychology also teaches acceptance therapy. Liberty begins by accepting ourselves as we are.

That's Modern Psychology--not Christians.

In neither case is repentance necessary to recieve the desired gift. Change for the better is hoped for and may come, but it is not necessary to accept the gift by faith alone.

You're referencing non-Christians. Christianity requires repentance in Jesus' name. That is "Faith Alone." We repent in *Jesus' name,* and not in our own name. Our Work to obtain Justification is worthless.

If you believe that something we do obtains forgiveness unto Eternal Life, you have bad theology. Repentance obtains forgiveness not as a Work that Justifies, but rather, as an expression of "Faith Alone," which means we don't provide for our own atonement.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Jesus' blood is not "trusting in a dead man."

The only thing sinful man can trust in for shedding the innocent blood of Jesus, is guilt and condemnation.

Jesus did not stop being Divine in his death.

Duh. His body was scourged and killed by all sinful men, not His soul. Jesus died bodily on a cross, not God.

It is faith in Christ apart from faith in ourselves.

Not if it's your own faith, and not Jesus' faith. Salvation is only through the gift of Jesus' faith walk as He walked.

Sinners reject having the faith of the righteous Lord Jesus Christ, because His righteous faith only does His righteousness.

That faith and righteousness is unacceptable for sinners taking pleasure in unrighteous spots and blots.

Faith in Christ's atoning death does not preclude faith in his resurrection from the dead.

It did for 3 days. Not only was He not resurrected, when a death-only atonement was supposed to be made, but the people supposedly atoned for, didn't believe He would rise again. They didn't even believe He was the Son of God, but a blasphemer worthy of death.

That's why them at the cross, and many Jews, Muslims, and even some Christians today still say God cursed and crucified Jesus, and the hands of the slayers were lawfully righteous in doing so by the Father's will.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

When the Church actually began living in the Spirit has nothing to do with when atonement was made by Christ.

The sprinkling of blood of the Spirit of life, is when atonement is made by Jesus Christ. And is only sprinkled upon them that repents for His sake.

No one was justified for falsely accusing and crucifying Jesus Christ, much less all sinners everywhere. All people every where are now commanded to repent of His death.

You keep arguing the necessity of Christ's resurrection, when nobody doubts that. The point is, the atonement took place at Christ's death. And only you dispute that.

Jesus also was the only one at the cross, that rejected His verdict of blasphemy and sentence of death. Other than the Father, or course.

Gal 1:10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Even as we live righteous lives we remain flawed by sin.

The lukewarm can't allow themselves to preach anything right, without qualifying it with something wrong.

Jdg 12:6Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right.

God's righteousness is at all times. Man's spotty righteousness is filthy unrighteousness toward God.

And though that is a relevant record, admitting we still have a Sin Nature, this does not prevent us from living in Christ's righteousness

It does when doing unrighteousness.

and allowing ourselves to be viewed as "righteous," as well.

You allow it? That's mighty white of you. I'm sure the righteous Lord apreciates you for it. Very magnanimous of you.

We can allow ourselves to be viewed by ourselves and others in any way we like on earth, but the righteous Lord will judge us by our works.

Please stop confusing the record Christians have as people still viewed as "sinners"

You mean the spotty record of unrighteousness you promote? There's nothing confusing about that for sinners. The righteousness of sinners is spotty at best.

people still viewed as "sinners"

and allowing ourselves to be viewed as "righteous," as well.

Viewed as righteous, or as sinners? No doubt it's both at the same time.

Rev{3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

So we see the doctrine of faith alone is all about one's view of faith, not one's substance of works.

No wonder views are being preached, rather than the Scriptures.

and yet living as a "righteous people!"

Not with a record of spotted unrighteousness, and more spots to come.

The confusion is that faith aloners cannot bring themselves to preach righteousness or unrighteousness, hot or cold, good or evil. Every time they begin to preach the one, they end up preaching the other with it.

For every righteousness they preach, they have a qualifying 'but' added for not doing it.

Justification by faith alone in Christ, apart from works, is justification for believing in Christ, but also not walking as He walked.

We believe in His righteousness, but we also do unrighteousness. We have our faith alone Christ, but apart from our works. We have His righteousness alone, but also our unrighteous works. We are the children of God, but also just human...

12:6Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right.

 

[RandyK]

The lukewarm can't allow themselves to preach anything right, without qualifying it with something wrong.

Jdg 12:6Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right.

God's righteousness is at all times. Man's spotty righteousness is filthy unrighteousness toward God.

Then you're filthy because your record is "spotty," as well. You're not perfect. You still sin. And you still have a Sin Nature.

 

[RBDERRICK]

First, let me say I am fairly surprised and pleased that you finally make an opposing argument by Scripture, and not by your own views alone.

The ignorant of the world having God consciousness and conscience, is without hearing the law of God, and the word of faith of Jesus Christ.

Acts 10.1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!”
4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.
The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Cornelius was a gentile convert to OT Judaism, who knew the law of Moses and did it righteously.

He then became a gentile convert to the NT faith of Jesus Christ, with birth and baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Rom 2.26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?

This is in defence of gentile converts to Jesus Christ, who had no outward circumcision of the law, and yet recieved the Spirit's circumcision of the heart by recieving the faith of the Lord Jesus.

Your best effort to justify the ignorant with Godly manners, is Rom 2:12,

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Rom 2:16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

This would appear to be speaking of Gentiles during OT Isreal, whio behave with godly manners, and yet ignorant of the the covenant and law of the God of Israel.

However, the first Scripture dismisses any such justification with ignorance of the true God.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

This is in response to the old saw of justification by ignorance. How can God justly judge them that have not heard? God can and does: Any that sin are guilty before Him, whether having heard His law of not. I.e. it is the very God conscience given to all men by creation in His image, that condemns any child of disobedience in the world.

It does not promote justification with God by ignorance, but rather confirms that "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

The Scripture then returns to the hearers of the word, and only them doing the word are justified with God, the Jew first and also the Gentile.

Rom 2:16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

The whole of Rom 2 is about no knowledge of the word justifes any man not doing the truth of God. Jesus Christ justifies the uncircumcised Gentiles through faith and circumcision of the Spirit, while condemning Jews born to the law with outward circumcsion, but do not the law of God by Jesus Christ.

When transitioning from any man to hearing Jews and Gentiles, a single Scripture dismisses out of hand any argument for justification by ignorance of the law and gospel of Jesus Christ. I.e. "What about them that haven't heard? Can God judge them?" This is the old excuse made by hearers, that are not doers, looking for loopholes in the just and impartial judgment of God by every man's works.

Because all men are created in the image of God and lightened by Christ coming into the world, then every one on earth begins with God conscious conviction for doing evil. And since, all men have sinned against the righteousness of God, whether hearing His law or not, no man is innocent by ignorance of the law.

Especially them that hear and do not.

Thanks for the Scriptural challenge. I think it's the only time you have done so, since you first offered a Scripture for choosing to accept Jesus Christ.