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Bible Study Mary Was Called Mother – Therefore Mary Is Not Sinless

Jim Parker said:
That's exactly what I said.
What I found baffling was your statement, "Your making Mary incarnate of the Holy Spirit..." (MSG #58)
We know the Mary was the child of Anna and Joachim, not Anna and the Holy Spirit.
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Wasn't my statement Jim its yours... you don't pray to her as well do you?
 
turnorburn said:
Wasn't my statement Jim its yours... you don't pray to her as well do you?
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Please go back and read you own post.
It's # 58
You said "Your making Mary incarnate of the Holy Spirit..."
I never said Mary was incarnate of the Holy Spirit.
Nothing I said suggested that she was incarnate of the Holy Spirit
That was your befuddled conclusion.
 
Jim Parker said:
I'm just saying that for Jesus to address His mother as "woman" in a manner which would not convey the proper respect due to a parent according to the Law of Moses and, even more so, according to the love which defined Jesus' life.

Even the use of the word "woman" when addressing the gentile woman who begged Jesus to heal her daughter did not have a demeaning nuance to it. Rather, he praised her for her faith.
Mat 15:28(RSV) Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.

How else did Jesus use the word "woman"?

When Jesus addressed the woman who anointed His head with ointment and washed His feet with tears of sorrow for her sins, His use of the word "woman" was endearing.
Luke 7:44, 50(RSV) Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house, you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.
And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

When Jesus healed the woman in a synagogue, His use of the word was not demeaning or dismissive. He identified her as "a daughter of Abraham."
Luke 13:11-12,16(RSV) And there was a woman who had had a spirit of infirmity for eighteen years; she was bent over and could not fully straighten herself. And when Jesus saw her, he called her and said to her, "Woman, you are freed from your infirmity."
And ought not this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath day?

When Jesus had the conversation with the Samaritan woman, He did not address her in a demeaning or dismissive manner when using the word "woman." By His words she would be saved as would be the entire town.
John 4:21(RSV) Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

Considering the woman caught in adultery. Jesus' use of the word "woman" is at least neutral but I suspect that His use was caring and considerate rather than demeaning. It was at least neutral as would be appropriate for a 1st century Jewish Rabbi addressing a woman to whom he was not related.
John 8:10-11(RSV) Jesus looked up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again."

Certainly Jesus' words to the weeping Mary Magdalene at the tomb were caring and compassionate rather than demeaning.
John 20:15 (RSV) Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom do you seek?"

So, why would anyone conclude that Jesus was being demeaning or dismissive to His own mother because He used the word "Mother" in addressing her?

Do the scriptures support such a view or does the need to take her down a notch or two require it?

iakov the fool
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I said some of the above in previous posts.

I AGREE!

Nuff said.
I meant that some nuances in language CANNOT be understood in other languages.
I was not saying that Jesus meant this in a demeaning manner - Jesus would not do that...

W
 
wondering said:
:lol
Hey man,
Because it doesn't say so!!

W
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Ruth 3:18b;
"For the man will not rest until the matter is settled today".
Question; After calling him Boaz throughout the chapter, why did she finish the chapter by calling him "man"?

Could it be there is more going on than you realize?
 
wondering said:
The fact that Adam called her "woman" first and then "Eve". Eve was named twice. I've never thought of this or read about it.
Any ideas?
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Woman is just the feminine form of the word for man in the Hebrew.
wondering said:
Woman when she was taken out of him, Genesis 2:23
Eve after they sinned. Genesis 3:20
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Thinking....
When he gave her a personal name it is 'Chavah' which means 'lifegiver' just as the verse says.
I believe there is more than one way this meaning is fulfilled by women when they become mothers, but I think it is the most significant that woman, in the case of Mary, gives life to the Christ, the one who will crush the head of the serpent, satan. She gives life to the eternal lifegiver.
Before the fall there was no need for a Savior, the Christ. But after there is, so woman is given the name Chavah (Eve) that describes her new purpose.
Notice Adam's name, 'ish'/man is never changed to any other spiritually significant name, such as Abram to Abraham, Sara to Sarah, and Woman 'ishshah' to Chavah.
 
Deborah13 said:
Woman is just the feminine form of the word for man in the Hebrew.

Thinking....
When he gave her a personal name it is 'Chavah' which means 'lifegiver' just as the verse says.
I believe there is more than one way this meaning is fulfilled by women when they become mothers, but I think it is the most significant that woman, in the case of Mary, gives life to the Christ, the one who will crush the head of the serpent, satan. She gives life to the eternal lifegiver.
Before the fall there was no need for a Savior, the Christ. But after there is, so woman is given the name Chavah (Eve) that describes her new purpose.
Notice Adam's name, 'ish'/man is never changed to any other spiritually significant name, such as Abram to Abraham, Sara to Sarah, and Woman 'ishshah' to Chavah.
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Mary gave life to the One Who is Life.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Ruth 3:18b;
"For the man will not rest until the matter is settled today".
Question; After calling him Boaz throughout the chapter, why did she finish the chapter by calling him "man"?

Could it be there is more going on than you realize?
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Hey Rollo
There's always more going on than I realize!
You could share, you know...
And since this is bible study, let me post a verse: 1 Corinthians 2:5
(we could try to explain everything every which way, but it's the power of God in our lives that really counts!)

Wondering
 
wondering said:
Hey Rollo
There's always more going on than I realize!
You could share, you know...
And since this is bible study, let me post a verse: 1 Corinthians 2:5
(we could try to explain everything every which way, but it's the power of God in our lives that really counts!)

Wondering
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No, I don't like Bible studies, I always get in trouble.
 
Deborah13 said:
Woman is just the feminine form of the word for man in the Hebrew.

Thinking....
When he gave her a personal name it is 'Chavah' which means 'lifegiver' just as the verse says.
I believe there is more than one way this meaning is fulfilled by women when they become mothers, but I think it is the most significant that woman, in the case of Mary, gives life to the Christ, the one who will crush the head of the serpent, satan. She gives life to the eternal lifegiver.
Before the fall there was no need for a Savior, the Christ. But after there is, so woman is given the name Chavah (Eve) that describes her new purpose.
Notice Adam's name, 'ish'/man is never changed to any other spiritually significant name, such as Abram to Abraham, Sara to Sarah, and Woman 'ishshah' to Chavah.
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Very good! I like this.
I guess Adam's role ended once they left the garden.
When Eve came out of Adam, they were one, they were fused into one thing because they came out of one thing.
Adam had been told by God to name all the animals Genesis 2:19
The animals were inferior to Adam, he gave the animals their name. Names were important in the O.T , as you noted, so whatever each name might mean, or maybe nothing, Adam did take charge and name the animals.

Eve was his equal. He didn't have to name her - she was a part of him. They were created in the image of God.
After the fall, Adam named her. Interesting. Did she lose her position of equality? Genesis 3:16
It's as if the sin separated them in a way that would continue till today.

I know Adam was responsible for the fall. Just thinking out loud.
I like very much your idea of Mary being the lifegiver to the Messiah. An important role indeed.

W
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
No, I don't like Bible studies, I always get in trouble.
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Rollo
It's difficult to believe you could ever get into trouble.
You always keep everyone in a good mood - how could that get you into trouble?
It would be sad around here without you.

W
 
wondering said:
Rollo
It's difficult to believe you could ever get into trouble.
You always keep everyone in a good mood - how could that get you into trouble?
It would be sad around here without you.

W
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It's Ralph's cat.
I'm afraid of him.

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