According God cant count in sequence through 70
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Wearing the right shoes, and properly clothed spiritually?
Join Elected By Him for a devotional on Ephesians 6:14-15
https://christianforums.net/threads/devotional-selecting-the-proper-shoes.109094/
MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?
- Thread starter Divinyl
- Start date
We know the cross provides for all of our needs, salvation, healing as well as restored relationship with God.
We know Jesus was the final sacrifice, once and for all!
They, the Jews don't know!
That's why one of the purpose of the 70 weeks is to "finish the transgression".
Whether we like it or not, there will be a temple rebuilt.
Here's the kicker -
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
Rather than trying to explain away this temple being rebuilt, why can't we learn what is going on, and inform this generation of young people so they can be warned.
JLB
Butch5
Member
Hi Divinyl,
The word generation can be used in several ways. It's not always used as speaking of a group of people all living at the same time. It can also be use of a group of people or something generated. Jesus uses the word in this sense elsewhere in the Scriptures. Here we have John the Baptist using it of the Pharisees and Sadducees
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them,O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (Mat 3:7 KJV)
They were rejecting the message that he was bringing from God so he calls them a generation of vipers. Jesus uses the term to refer to those who are evil.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. (Mat 12:34 KJV)
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: (Mat 12:39 KJV)
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Stormcrow
Member
1. "To finish the transgression,"
- This was fulfilled. (Matt 21:33-45; 23:32,35,36,38; Luke 11:47-51; 1 Thess. 2:14-16)
2. "Make an end of sins,"
- This was fulfilled. (John 1:29; Matt 1:21; Acts 10:43; Hebrews 9:12-14,26; 10:9-14)
3. "Make reconciliation for iniquity,"
- This was fulfilled. (Romans 5:8-11; II Cor. 5:17-21; Hebrews 2:17; Col 1:12-21)
4. "Bring in everlasting righteousness,"
- This was fulfilled. (Romans 3:21-26; 4:13; 5:17,18; 9:30,31; 14:17 (Isa. 51:8) ; Hebrews 9:12; II Thess 2:16; I Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 9:9)
5. "Seal up vision and prophecy,"
- This was fulfilled. (Matthew 13:14,15 (cf. Isaiah 6:9,10); 17:5; John 1:1; 12:39-41; Acts 7:37; 28:25-27; Romans 1:1-2, 3:21, 16:25-26; Ephesians 2:11-17; 3:3-6; Colossians 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-2; I Peter 1:9-11; II Peter 1:19-21)
6. "Anoint the most holy (or holy place)."
- This was fulfilled. (Matthew 3:15-17; Luke 4:18; John 1:32; Acts 2:32,33,38,39; 4:26,27; 10:37,38,44,45; Hebrews 9:22-24 / Not Physical Temple - Acts 7:48-49)
Everything in Daniel has been fulfilled.
JLB i will never believe that again... The Scriptures tell us
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Stormcrow
Member
The Greek word in Matthew 3:7 is not the same one Christ used in Matthew 23 and 24 (among others). The word He used in Matthew 3:7 is this:
Greek NASB Number: 1081
Greek Word: γέννημα
Transliterated Word: gennêma
Root: from 1080;
Definition: offspring:--
List of English Words and Number of Times Used
brood (4).
, New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, (Anaheim, CA: Foundation Publications, 1998), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "1081".
The word He used in Matthew 23 and 24 is this:
Greek NASB Number: 1074
Greek Word: γενεά
Transliterated Word: genea
Root: from 1096;
Definition: race, family, generation:--
List of English Words and Number of Times Used
generation (32),
generations (10),
kind (1).
, New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, (Anaheim, CA: Foundation Publications, 1998), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "1074".
Note that this word is used 43 times in the NT and only once does it not refer to a group of people living at the same time.
In Matthew 23, it is clearly referring to the generation of those He was addressing:
"Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! Matthew 23:34-38 (NASB)
It means the same thing in Matthew 24:
"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:32-34 (NASB)
Eusebius understood Christ's use of this word to mean those living at the time when He spoke those words:
But the rest of the apostles who were harassed in innumerable ways, with a view to destroy them [see the quote from Matthew 23 above], and driven from the land of Judea, had gone forth to preach the gospel to all nations, relying upon the aid of Christ, when he said, "Go ye, teach all nations in my name."
The whole body, however, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella [see Matthew 24:15].
Here, those that believed in Christ, having removed from Jerusalem, as if holy men had entirely abandoned the royal city itself, and the whole land of Judea; the divine justice, for their crimes against Christ and his apostles, finally overtook them, totally destroying the whole generation of these evildoers from the earth.
But the number of calamities which then overwhelmed the whole nation; the extreme misery to which particularly the inhabitants of Judea were reduced, the vast numbers of men, with women and children that fell by the sword and famine, and innumerable other forms of death; the numerous and great cities of Judea that were besieged, as also the great and incredible distresses that those experienced who took refuge at Jerusalem, as to a place of perfect security; these facts, as well as the whole tenor of the war, and each particular of its progress, when finally, the abomination of desolation, according to the prophetic declaration, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, but which now was approaching its total down-fall and final destruction by fire; all this, I say, any one that wishes may see accurately stated in the history written by Josephus.
It may, however, be necessary to state, in the very words of this writer, how about three hundred thousand that flocked from all parts of Judea at the time of the passover, were shut up in Jerusalem as in a prison. For it was indeed just, that in those very days in which they had inflicted sufferings upon the Saviour and benefactor of all men, the Christ of God, destruction should overtake them, thus shut up as in a prison, as an exhibition of the divine justice.
Passing by, then, the particular calamities which befell them, such as they suffered from the sword, and other means employed against them, I may deem it sufficient only to subjoin the calamities they endured from the famine. So that they who peruse the present history, may know in some measure, that the divine vengeance did not long delay to visit them for their iniquity against the Christ of God.
Eusebius Pamphilus, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 85-87.
The blood of the prophets and those Christ sent was held against that generation, just as He said it would.
Everything else in the Olivet Discourse revolves around the fulfillment of His words "this generation" by these events.
Stormcrow
Member
Warned about what? The end of the world? God said He would never destroy all life again!
The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done. "While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease." Genesis 8:21-22 (NASB)
The earth may very well come to a cataclysmic end because the Sun supernovas, or an asteroid hits it, but God will never again wipe humanity from the face of it. That was the promise He made to Noah, and He made this promise fully knowing that mankind would continue to be and do evil things on it:
"for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth"
Unless you know something about an imminent supernova or a planet-killing asteroid on a collision course with earth, there is only one warning people need to get from us:
Everyone of us will - at some point - have to meet God when we die. Will you be ready for that meeting? If you want to be sure you will, please accept Christ, who gave His life out of love for you so that you might live forever with Him.
That's it. That's the gospel of Christ. Simple, complete, direct and sufficient to save all those who believe. No return to animal sacrifice. No return to the Law of Moses and the Old Covenant system of Temple worship it created. No fear of a global "boogeyman" called 'THE ANTICHRIST." None of that. You. Jesus. Forever. So simple a child can understand it.
The Jews living today could build a thousand temples and offer twice daily sacrifices until the sun burns out and it would not change the fact that the blood of bulls and goats cannot save them and that God would not sanctify with His presence that which He set aside by His own Son's sacrifice.
Futurism/Dispensationalism looks back to a renewed bondage under Egypt; bondage under the Law.
We've moved way beyond that with Christ's sacrifice.
Stormcrow wrote -
"Finish the transgression" was fulfilled Matthew 21:33-45
33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?" 41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons." 42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the Lord's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'? 43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." 45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.
Nothing what so ever to do with transgression being finished!
Sorry brother, just because you state your opinion and "tag" a bunch of scripture references, that were a cut and paste to them, just doesn't mean anything to me.
You really should read what you cut and paste from another website!
You think "sin" has ended, take a look around!
You think "everlasting righteousness" has come, take a look around.
You think all "vision and prophecy" has been fulfilled, you are wrong.
These things will be fulfilled when Jesus returns and -
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
When the knowledge of the glory of The Lord covers the earth as the waters cover the sea. Habakkuk 2:14
When the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ. Revelation 11:15
When these scriptures are fulfilled and the earth and its people are in this state of being, then these scripture will have been fulfilled, until then ...
Maybe you should actually study for yourself what was written in the scriptures, rather than listen to every preacher and teacher on the internet.
You might actually have something worth sharing!
Study to show yourself approved!
JLB
E
Elijah674
Guest
It is strange that Rev. can be read & then these ones do not understand that Christ's Priestly work of Heb. is still much in progress. And to be sincerely honest, as is seen in old Israel's House being Desolate, (Matt. 23:38) and these other ones found in Matt. 23:15 as being new converts, I think that the 39 yrs. to 70AD were mostly for these ones who were given a chance to escape after much study & maturing?
I see this as a repeat with these today ones of Rev. 17:1-5 mostly all being in the desolate 'house'S (as prophesied at present) and the world per/say being mostly 'all ignorant' given a last chance to get it right with the 666 testing. And yes, the Rev. 12:17 ones being as the ones of Acts once seen again in UN Court for a worldwide testimony. Eccl. 3:15
And yes, surely these ones coming on the scene as prophesied in Matt. 24:21 on are mostly past/tense. (not any 'elect'
)--Elijah
Stormcrow
Member
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2 Timothy 1:10 (NASB)
Oh, and one more thing...
Verse 26 from your quote is a bad translation. Here's how it reads from the literal Greek:
...the last enemy is done away--death; for all things He did put under his feet...1 Corinthians 15:26-27 (YLT)
And here it is from another literal source:
{the} last enemy is abolished, death.
Notes for Verse 26
Verse 26. shall be -- Greek, "is done away with" (Rev. 20:14; compare Rev. 1:18). It is to believers especially this applies (1Co 15:55-57); even in the case of unbelievers, death is done away with by the general resurrection. Satan brought in sin, and sin brought in death! So they shall be destroyed (rendered utterly powerless) in the same order (1Co 15:56 Heb 2:14 Rev. 19:20 Rev. 20:10, 14).
Robert Jamieson, A.R. Fausset, David Brown, A Commentary: Critical, Experimental, and Practical on the Old and New Testaments, (Toledo, OH: Jerome B. Names & Co., 1884), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "1 CORINTHIANS".
And now, just to repeat for emphasis:
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2 Timothy 1:10 (NASB)
If the last enemy is death and death has been made powerless through the blood of Christ, then so, too, has Satan and Sin!
Fulfilled!
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Butch5
Member
Hi Stormcrow,
Let me suggest that if generation means all living at that time that would include the apostles also. Would you suggest that the apostles also were held accountable for all the evil done against the prophets? It would also include other disciples, such at Timothy, Barnabas, Clement, Apollos, and others.
You also said,
The section you underlined seems to indicate a generation of evil doers just as I suggested. The apostles and other disciples weren't destroyed for crimes against Christ. If generation meant all living at that time wouldn't that include the apostles and disciples?
Nothing? Again we see the low value of the Cross.... The salvation from the transgression is not nothing. The Lamb of God put to the slaughter for my transgressions said it is finished....
Pushing 20 years ago i learned what Christ did His Cross ( cross meaning every thing salvation, completion, redemption, the end of the 'temple/law age His birth the whole shebang) Any way i finely got it His salvation is mightier then theology.
E
Elijah674
Guest
meaning what? satan was defeated. That Christ could 'now' go back & send God the Holy Spirit back to earth [[to present Christ omnipresent]]. He had won back Adam's LOST Domain.
Even then, He says in John 20:16-17 after 3 days in the grave that He still needed the Fathers approval as the Obedient Second Adam that He had been 100% faithful it appears? Remember that when He died, he died as man & thought that the Father had 'forsaken' Him? So as a Obedient Son/man/Second Adam He seemed to need to be assured? (the question mark is not for me)
John 20
[16] Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
As the 'man' of Christ needed evidence of His Heb. 13 Faith, as well as any of mans loving working Obedience 'FAITH' seen 'after' death. (in other words no man knows until they 'see' the results of their FAITH! Our faith is not finished until we are finished.
Even note that He will eternally carry scars in His side & hands for our rememberance of what 'sin had cost'.
See John 20:24-27 for who 'belives'.. and I do not mean Thomas! (but most of these wrong generation believers)
--Elijah
I totally agree with you.
No believer should deny or belittle the work of the cross, FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE.
The words of Jesus and Daniel as well as Paul in 2 Thessalonians is concerning those who don't believe.
Please, Please Please read what I am writing!
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
GOD HIMSELF IS SENDING THEM STRONG DELUSION!
GOD IS THE ONE SENDING THEM STRONG DELUSION, SO THAT THEY WILL BELIEVE THE LIE!
WHY! WHY IS GOD SENDING THEM STRONG DELUSION?
BECAUSE HE WANTED THEM CONDEMNED!
THE KJV SAYS DAMNED - That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
The Truth is Jesus Christ! The blood of His cross is the only way to God!
However, the Jews want a temple and the Jews are still waiting for the Messiah to come to the temple so God will give it to them BECAUSE THEY DO NOT LOVE THE TRUTH. THE REFUSE TO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR MESSIAH!
The Temple and the man of sin, the lawless one is the means to this strong delusion!
If you can't see this in these plain word's then so be it.
JLB
The Cross of Christ is our salvation. And you are looking for a temple....
Agree so where does your 'however' come from. It is not from the Lord He is not a respecter of persons.
I accepted for years and years just about the same theology you speak of then i saw in scripture what i believe to be truth. Christ died once for the sins of the world ... There area number of Jewish folks who accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. To fit the view you speak of ( temple view) spreading the gospel to the Jewish people would not be a good idea... Every unsaved person REFUSES TO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR MESSIAH!