MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

[reba]

Thanks guys for keeping this pleasant

 

[JLB]

The Cross of Christ is our salvation. And you are looking for a temple....

Agree so where does your 'however' come from. It is not from the Lord He is not a respecter of persons.

I accepted for years and years just about the same theology you speak of then i saw in scripture what i believe to be truth. Christ died once for the sins of the world ... There area number of Jewish folks who accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. To fit the view you speak of ( temple view) spreading the gospel to the Jewish people would not be a good idea... Every unsaved person REFUSES TO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR MESSIAH!

I'm not "looking" for a temple.

I am reporting on current events that are coming to pass, that Jesus and Daniel and the Apostle John and the Apostle Paul all spoke about!

This temple is associated with a 3 1/2 year period know as "the Great Tribulation"!

http://www.templeinstitute.org

These folks have everything ready to build, all the way down to the "Red Heifer"!


JLB

 

[Butch5]

There's simply no way to respond to such a question politely.

It was a rhetorical question to make the point. I didn't expect a positive answer. It simply shows that generation in this useage cannot mean everyone living at that time.

Such an absurd question doesn't warrant a serious response. I'll leave it at that.

How is it an absurd question? If generation meant all living at that time and the apostles were living at that time how would they not be included? Even the quote from Eusebius says, that evil generation was destroyed for crimes against Christ, that was not everyone living at that time. It was the Jews who had Him crucified. Eusebius is using the word the same way Jesus did.

 

[reba]

Where in scripture do you find "the Great Tribulation". You wont not as you have implied. That phrase is not in scripture

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The 2 times 'great tribulation; is written.... neither one imply one 3 1/2 year event.

Well meaning folks have done to the phrase, great tribulation, the same as they have done to the phrase, antichrist. ,altered it

Scripture does not say "the great tribulation" nor does it say "the antichrist."

That heifer is getting old they have a life span of about 20 years...

 

[Sinthesis]

That heifer is getting old they have a life span of about 20 years...

Just one gray hair and :bigcry

 

[Elijah674]

Where in scripture do you find "the Great Tribulation". You wont not as you have implied. That phrase is not in scripture

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The 2 times 'great tribulation; is written.... neither one imply one 3 1/2 year event.

Well meaning folks have done to the phrase, great tribulation, the same as they have done to the phrase, antichrist. ,altered it

Scripture does not say "the great tribulation" nor does it say "the antichrist."

That heifer is getting old they have a life span of about 20 years...

Elijah here:
Do a little checking on bible words such as 'time of trouble' and the like & see what comes up? Surely there are many words that mean tribulation? One jumps up at me at least, besides the Matt. 24:21's escalating troubles. (that I believe we are in as we post)
But Rev. 3:10 surely will be even more trouble coming upon earth, it says..

[6] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
[7] And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
[8] I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

[9] Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

[10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, [[I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,]] which [[shall come upon all the world, to try them]] that dwell upon the earth.

And Matt. 24:21 on tell's of the testing of the saints to find out who it is that are Christ's 'ELECT', right?

As for how I see this, the world will be tested with the mark of the beast, and this will be a test of life or death for who the saved will choose or not choose.

 

[JLB]

Where in scripture do you find "the Great Tribulation". You wont not as you have implied. That phrase is not in scripture

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The 2 times 'great tribulation; is written.... neither one imply one 3 1/2 year event.

Well meaning folks have done to the phrase, great tribulation, the same as they have done to the phrase, antichrist. ,altered it

Scripture does not say "the great tribulation" nor does it say "the antichrist."

That heifer is getting old they have a life span of about 20 years...

It is a simple phrase that Jesus said.

How would you refer to (the) great tribulation period that Jesus spoke of, without using the word the in front of it.

Paul said -

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.


The Apostle John wrote -

1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

This was written in 90 AD, 20 years after The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD!

Jesus said -

"Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),

Abomination of Desolation is Temple language according to Daniel!

Daniel said - !2:1,11

"At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

Clearly referring to the temple!

Paul, John, Jesus and Daniel all spoke of a future temple, to ignore this or try and explain it away would be foolish.

(The) great tribulation that Jesus spoke of is fast approaching.


The question is: Do you believe they will build another temple.

Yes or No?

Have looked at the link I left you?

JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

This was written in 90 AD, 20 years after The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD!

Nothing in the NT was written after 68 AD. Nothing.

 

[Stormcrow]

It was a rhetorical question to make the point. I didn't expect a positive answer. It simply shows that generation in this useage cannot mean everyone living at that time.

How is it an absurd question? If generation meant all living at that time and the apostles were living at that time how would they not be included? Even the quote from Eusebius says, that evil generation was destroyed for crimes against Christ, that was not everyone living at that time. It was the Jews who had Him crucified. Eusebius is using the word the same way Jesus did.

And explain to me again how this word "generation" used in Matthew 23 and 24 somehow doesn't mean the people to whom Jesus was addressing when He spoke those words: i.e. the people of His generation???

What's your point?

 

[Stormcrow]

The question is: Do you believe they will build another temple.

Yes or No?

They could build a thousand more. It wouldn't matter! The glory of God's presence no longer fills structures "built by human hands!" The glory of God's presence - His Holy Spirit - fills and indwells we who belong to His church!!!

Therefore, you cannot profane that which God does not sanctify!

If your eschatology is built around this idea of a third temple being profaned by a global boogeyman named "THE ANTICHRIST", you have fallen for a lie.

 

[JLB]

Nothing in the NT was written after 68 AD. Nothing.

Most believe John wrote the book of Revelation on the isle of Patmos in 90 AD.


Nero killed himself in AD 68, however it was Domitian that banished him to Patmos where he wrote Revelation. So you are clearly wrong about your "facts".

I guess one would have to dispute even that to make their interpretation work out.

However the question stands, do you believe what was written in the New Testament about the soon coming temple? Yes or No?

http://www.templeinstitute.org



JLB

 

[reba]

It is a simple phrase that Jesus said.

How would you refer to (the) great tribulation period that Jesus spoke of, without using the word the in front of it.


JLB

The Sudan Christians of today are in great tribulation. As are those in China.

Yes JLB i have seen the temple mount site.... as i told you there was a time when i believed the same.

 

[reba]

The purpose of the commandment of building the Temple is in order to offer the sacrifices, and it is a perpetual commandment that is binding upon every successive generation.

To support this is to deny the true Sacrifice of Christ

We shall see that these garments are essential in order for the priests to function in their sacred capacity; so much so that in their absence, the offerings made by the priests in the Temple have no validity! Without his uniform, the priest who serves in the Holy Temple is considered like a "stranger" serving before the L-rd - like an ordinary non-priest. What, then, is the basis for the garments' powerful significance?

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

You are about to read the extraordinary story of an extraordinary boy, named Shlomo Ben Ezra. Shlomo lived in a quiet Galilee village called Tsippori, 1945 years ago, in the year 60CE! In that year, Shlomo, along with his Saba and Savta, (grandparents), Ima and Aba, (mother and father), and his sister Miriam, made the pilgrimage from Tsippori to the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, in order to celebrate the Passover festival - the festival of freedom!

You celebrate the above i will celebrate :

Luk 2:42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Mar 14:22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

 

[JLB]

To support this is to deny the true Sacrifice of Christ



Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;




You celebrate the above i will celebrate :

Luk 2:42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Mar 14:22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

You keep referring to scriptures that have nothing to do with our discussion of the soon to be built Temple.

This temple is the temple that the man of sin the son of perdition will go to and proclaim himself God.

When he does For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.



The generation that sees this will see the return of The Lord Jesus!

JLB

 

[Butch5]

And explain to me again how this word "generation" used in Matthew 23 and 24 somehow doesn't mean the people to whom Jesus was addressing when He spoke those words: i.e. the people of His generation???

What's your point?

My point is that "this generation" doesn't refer to only those alive at that time but rather to evil people. Were there evil people at that time, yes there were, however, there were also those who weren't evil. If generation is limited to only those living at a certain time it must include all of those living at a certain time. If that was the case then it would include everyone.

 

[reba]

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Did the Christians leave Jerusalem for the mountains before 70 AD?

Was the city surrounded by the the Roman armies about that time?

Was the temple destroyed about 70 AD

Does that timing encompass the generation that killed Jesus?
( please note The Jewish leaders of the day used the Romans to kill Jesus yet as Christian we know He gave His life)


Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

[reba]

You keep referring to scriptures that have nothing to do with our discussion of the soon to be built Temple.

Which are your scriptures again on the discussion?

 

[Stormcrow]

Most believe John wrote the book of Revelation on the isle of Patmos in 90 AD.

Most once believed the earth was flat, too. Facts aren't determined by how many people believe them.

Nero killed himself in AD 68, however it was Domitian that banished him to Patmos where he wrote Revelation. So you are clearly wrong about your "facts".

Domitian was responsible for the second persecution of the church.

The Second Persecution, Under Domitian, AD 81 The emperor Domitian, who was naturally inclined to cruelty, first slew his brother, and then raised the second persecution against the Christians.

John Foxe, Foxe's Book of Martyrs, (London: James Nisbet & Co., Ltd., n.d.), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "CHAPTER II".

Nero began the first Roman persecution of the church in late 64 AD, blaming Christians in Rome for the fire that nearly destroyed it in July of that year.

Here is a link to the truth about the book of Revelation.

http://ecclesia.org/truth/revelation.html

And here is the conclusion from that link:

[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]If a person doesn't believe the first three verses of Revelation (i.e., the near expectation of the events), neither will he believe the rest of the book. For if a person is unwilling to accept the time constraints of the text, the rest of the document can mean anything that the reader desires.

If the Apostle John was banished to Patmos under the reign of Nero, as the internal evidence indicates, he wrote the book of Revelation about AD 68 or 69, which was after the death of that emperor; but the gospels and epistles some years later. One of the oddest facts about the New Testament is that what on any showing would appear to be the single most datable and climactic event of the period — the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 — is never once mentioned as a passed fact.

The inscription to the book of Revelation, in the Syrian version, first published by Deuteronomy Dieu, in 1627, and, afterwards in the London Polyglot, is the following, "The Revelation which God made to John the evangelist, in the Island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero Caesar."

This places it before the year of our Lord 69AD.

http://ecclesia.org/truth/revelation.html

The author of this article errs in that he claims Nero had already died by the time Revelation was written, but Nero was the 6th Roman king of Revelation 17:10, a point he makes earlier in the article.

At its earliest, Revelation was written in 65 AD, shortly after Nero's persecution began. At its latest, it would have been written in early 68 AD. There is no coherent historical or Biblical rationale to suggest a 96 AD writing of the book of Revelation. None.
[/FONT]

 

[Stormcrow]

However the question stands, do you believe what was written in the New Testament about the soon coming temple? Yes or No?

There is nothing written in the NT about a "soon coming Temple!" Therefore, it's an absurd question!

There are three temples mentioned in the NT: the temple in Jerusalem where priests performed twice daily sacrifices, the temple of Jesus' body, which was destroyed and raised in three days, and the bodies and lives that comprise the temple of those who believe in Christ, His church!!! There is no mention anywhere of a third, physical, earthly temple in Jerusalem!

In fact, the Bible says this about New Jerusalem:

I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. Revelation 21:22 (NASB)

NO TEMPLE! NONE!!! You've fallen for a lie!

 

[Stormcrow]

My point is that "this generation" doesn't refer to only those alive at that time but rather to evil people. Were there evil people at that time, yes there were, however, there were also those who weren't evil. If generation is limited to only those living at a certain time it must include all of those living at a certain time. If that was the case then it would include everyone.

I simply don't know how to begin to address the really faulty, absurd logic here. I guess we start with this claim:

If generation is limited to only those living at a certain time it must include all of those living at a certain time.

Why? The "Baby Boom" Generation spans a period of time in which people were born from 1946 to 1964. That's according to the U.S. Census Bureau. So while the Baby Boom Generation is referred to as a single generation, not everyone was born into it or died out of it at the same time. Yet it is still referred to as a single generation!

The problem with your ridiculously narrow definition of generation is that you have incorrectly defined it as "all the people living at the same time." The dictionary actually defines it this way:

the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time: the postwar generation.

So not everyone born into a generation lives and dies at the same time.

Now we come to this:

My point is that "this generation" doesn't refer to only those alive at that time but rather to evil people.

The second meaning of the Greek word "genea" means "kind." But that is not what Jesus was referring to in Matthew 23 and 24 when He said "this generation", as I have demonstrated in earlier posts. There are good and evil people in every generation, but Christ's words were directed to His enemies (Matthew 23) and to His disciples (Matthew 24) and were meant to find fulfillment while both friend and foe were still alive: before that generation had passed.

It's not a reference to the type of people He was addressing rather it was about the time in which both His enemies and His disciples would see His return: their generation.

And now, having reread this response, I can't believe I needed to write it. 2