MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

[Sinthesis]

That the abomination wasn't recorded in Revelation, but instead prophesied, is evidence of Revelation's early date. Likewise, the fact that the temple's destruction wasn't recorded, but prophesied in Revelation is again evidence of its early date.

 

[JLB]

Because both Thessalonians and Revelation were written before 70 AD, while the Temple still stood, these passages you claim that are of a future temple actually refer to the one that was destroyed in 70 AD!!!

Here is the truth found in scripture, not mans opinion.


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


Here is the truth that this scripture teaches -

• The coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him is after the lawless one is revealed!

• The Man of sin the son of perdition goes to the temple of God and shows that he is God.

• The Man of sin the son of perdition is alive when The Lord returns because he is destroyed by the brightness of The Lords coming.

The Jews are expecting The Messiah to come through the eastern gate and proclaim Himself as God. See Ezekiel 43 & 44


The man of sin the son of perdition will be alive when The Lord Jesus physically returns.




JLB

 

[reba]

You are not giving importance to the verses quoted by JLB or you are purposefully avoiding to answer.

The temple was "destroyed" in 70 AD and no abomination was ever recorded. You are purposefully ignoring "he sits as God in the temple of God". No one sat as God in the temple of God when the temple was getting destroyed in 70 AD. Neither was Jerusalem tread underfoot for 42 months. This is why you are making Paul and John a liar.

Please don't try to answer the questions there were not asked or replied.

The Romans entered the temple they destroyed it the exposed the Holy of Holies.. By being unclean and entering the temple it was abomination. before even getting to the Holy of Holies.

 

[reba]

Are we not His Body is not His light getting brighter and brighter? Once again i ask has the Christian population grown in the last 2000 years? Are we through Him shinning forth the Light of the World

 

[felix]

And now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator with the greatest acclamations of joy.

Flavius Josephus, The Works of Flavius Josephus, trans. William Whiston (Hartford, CN: S. S. Scranton, 1905), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 849.

Roman soldiers offering pagan sacrifices to the graven images that comprised their ensigns on the desolated Holy ground of Mount Zion.

Nope. No abomination ever recorded in history. Nothing to see here. Move along.

But the number of calamities which then overwhelmed the whole nation; the extreme misery to which particularly the inhabitants of Judea were reduced, the vast numbers of men, with women and children that fell by the sword and famine, and innumerable other forms of death; the numerous and great cities of Judea that were besieged, as also the great and incredible distresses that those experienced who took refuge at Jerusalem, as to a place of perfect security; these facts, as well as the whole tenor of the war, and each particular of its progress, when finally, the abomination of desolation, according to the prophetic declaration, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, but which now was approaching its total down-fall and final destruction by fire; all this, I say, any one that wishes may see accurately stated in the history written by Josephus.

Eusebius Pamphilus, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 85-87.

Read Josephus' Wars of the Jews to understand how Christ's prophecies were all fulfilled before that generation had passed.

The problem in trying to understand that phrase "abomination of desolation" (which Luke defines for us, by the way) is not that there is a single abomination in the Temple back then, but dozens within the writings of Josephus alone!

But what does Josephus know? He only wrote as an eyewitness to the events that fulfilled Christ's prophecies to a "T".

You just proved the events in 70 AD doesn't match the abomination in the prophecy.

Who was the man who sat as God on the temple of God? It simply didn't happen. For this to happen, the temple must exist for that person to sit as God in it and the event must have happened before 70AD, but nothing happened as mentioned in the prophecy.

 

[felix]

The Romans entered the temple they destroyed it the exposed the Holy of Holies.. By being unclean and entering the temple it was abomination. before even getting to the Holy of Holies.

The abomination on the prophecy does not say that. The prophecy states, "he sits as God in the temple of God". Who sat as God on the temple of God?

 

[reba]

When did God 'sit' in the temple?


What is meant by sit?

His presence at times was in the Holy of Holies hovering the Mercy seat.

 

[felix]

When did God 'sit' in the temple?


What is meant by sit?

His presence at times was in the Holy of Holies hovering the Mercy seat.

(2Thess 2:3-5) Let no one deceive you by any means; for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

Is the Scripture verses not clearer enough?

• He opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped
• He sits as God in the temple of God
• He shows himself that he is God

 

[reba]

When the death of Christ split the veil the Holy of Holies was opened ...man did not open that area God did.... there will be no true Holy of Holies no matter how many buildings man builds.... any peoples can build a building they can put a sign over the door calling it 'The Temple' but that does not make it so. Christ is The Temple....
The temple system was destroyed 70 ad . God had the Romans destroy it. The Jewish leaders used the Romans to carry out Gods plan of the sacrifice of Christ...
70 AD God used the same Romans to end their way of life.

 

[JLB]

Re: MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

Originally Posted by Stormcrow
Because both Thessalonians and Revelation were written before 70 AD, while the Temple still stood, these passages you claim that are of a future temple actually refer to the one that was destroyed in 70 AD!!!



Here is the truth found in scripture, not mans opinion.


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


Here is the truth that this scripture teaches -

• The coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him is after the lawless one is revealed!

• The Man of sin the son of perdition goes to the temple of God and shows that he is God.

• The Man of sin the son of perdition is alive when The Lord returns because he is destroyed by the brightness of The Lords coming.

The Jews are expecting The Messiah to come through the eastern gate and proclaim Himself as God. See Ezekiel 43 & 44


The man of sin the son of perdition will be alive when The Lord Jesus physically returns.




JLB​

 

[JLB]

When the death of Christ split the veil the Holy of Holies was opened ...man did not open that area God did.... there will be no true Holy of Holies no matter how many buildings man builds.... any peoples can build a building they can put a sign over the door calling it 'The Temple' but that does not make it so. Christ is The Temple....
The temple system was destroyed 70 ad . God had the Romans destroy it. The Jewish leaders used the Romans to carry out Gods plan of the sacrifice of Christ...
70 AD God used the same Romans to end their way of life.

• The Man of sin the son of perdition is alive when The Lord returns because he is destroyed by the brightness of The Lords coming.

The Lord Himself will destroy the man of sin, the son of perdition!




JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

You just proved the events in 70 AD doesn't match the abomination in the prophecy.

Who was the man who sat as God on the temple of God? It simply didn't happen. For this to happen, the temple must exist for that person to sit as God in it and the event must have happened before 70AD, but nothing happened as mentioned in the prophecy.

This article substantiates what I wrote about John of Gischala.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Modern/2002_noe_man-of-sin.html

Here's an excerpt:

Josephus also records that before this John of Gischala, the son of Levi, was established as the Zealot leader in control of the Temple area (there were three Zealot factions), the power of Satan was already doing his deceitful and treacherous work. This John physically entered the Temple, presented himself to the Zealots as a God-sent ambassador; and persuaded them to defy the laws of Rome and go to war to gain independence. He also instigated the calling in the Idumaeans to keep the Jewish sympathizers from submitting to Rome. He ordered the death of Ananus and the removal of the priesthood. After these atrocities, he became the official leader of the Zealot group m control of theTemple area-john held the temple" and began disregarded the laws of Rome, God, and man, and promising deliverance from the Romans. Then he broke off from the Zealots and began "setting up a monarchial power." He "set on fire these houses that were full of corn, and of all other provision which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years" He deceived the Jews about the power of the Roman armies In possession of the Temple and the adjoining parts, he cut the throats of anyone suspected of going over to the Romans.13 He performed many sacrileges, such as melting down the sacred utensils used in Temple service, and defiled the Temple.

In short, this John established himself in the Temple, the one standing when Paul wrote, and put himself above Rome and above God, thereby taking the place of God in the Temple. All this happened, right then and there, and exactly as Paul had said the "man of sin" would do.

After the coming of the Lord and the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D. 70, John of Gischala was "condemned to perpetual imprisonment" by the Roman authorities. Thus was fulfilled Paul's prophetic and symbolic language that this man would be destroyed by "the spirit of his Jesus mouth and brightness of his [parousia] coming" (see Isa. 11:4; 30:27-33; Hos. 6:5; also Da. 7:8, 19-28).

Verses 11-12. "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but delighted In wickedness." Josephus records that the Roman General Titus had no intention of destroying the Temple. The Romans wanted to preserve it as a trophy and monument of their conquest. Even Josephus personally pleaded with John of Gischala to surrender. But such a "madness" swept through him and his Jewish followers that they taunted the powers of Rome and refused to listen. This man, John, through the power of Satan and the delusion sent by God upon the Jewish people, forced the Roman armies to act. Instead of accepting Jesus as Messiah, King, and Deliverer, the unbelieving Jews placed their hopes in this false messiah a man of deceit and wickedness. They looked to the "man of sin" to lead them to victory and independence. The priesthood, which stood in their way, had been removed. And by August or September of A.D. 70, Paul's entire "man of sin" prophecy of 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-12 was fulfilled. The city and the Temple were burned and destroyed. The covenant nation of Israel and biblical Judaism were forever destroyed.

 

[JLB]

This article substantiates what I wrote about John of Gischala.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Modern/2002_noe_man-of-sin.html

Here's an excerpt:

Josephus also records that before this John of Gischala, the son of Levi, was established as the Zealot leader in control of the Temple area (there were three Zealot factions), the power of Satan was already doing his deceitful and treacherous work. This John physically entered the Temple, presented himself to the Zealots as a God-sent ambassador; and persuaded them to defy the laws of Rome and go to war to gain independence. He also instigated the calling in the Idumaeans to keep the Jewish sympathizers from submitting to Rome. He ordered the death of Ananus and the removal of the priesthood. After these atrocities, he became the official leader of the Zealot group m control of theTemple area-john held the temple" and began disregarded the laws of Rome, God, and man, and promising deliverance from the Romans. Then he broke off from the Zealots and began "setting up a monarchial power." He "set on fire these houses that were full of corn, and of all other provision which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years" He deceived the Jews about the power of the Roman armies In possession of the Temple and the adjoining parts, he cut the throats of anyone suspected of going over to the Romans.13 He performed many sacrileges, such as melting down the sacred utensils used in Temple service, and defiled the Temple.

In short, this John established himself in the Temple, the one standing when Paul wrote, and put himself above Rome and above God, thereby taking the place of God in the Temple. All this happened, right then and there, and exactly as Paul had said the "man of sin" would do.

After the coming of the Lord and the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D. 70, John of Gischala was "condemned to perpetual imprisonment" by the Roman authorities. Thus was fulfilled Paul's prophetic and symbolic language that this man would be destroyed by "the spirit of his Jesus mouth and brightness of his [parousia] coming" (see Isa. 11:4; 30:27-33; Hos. 6:5; also Da. 7:8, 19-28).

Verses 11-12. "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but delighted In wickedness." Josephus records that the Roman General Titus had no intention of destroying the Temple. The Romans wanted to preserve it as a trophy and monument of their conquest. Even Josephus personally pleaded with John of Gischala to surrender. But such a "madness" swept through him and his Jewish followers that they taunted the powers of Rome and refused to listen. This man, John, through the power of Satan and the delusion sent by God upon the Jewish people, forced the Roman armies to act. Instead of accepting Jesus as Messiah, King, and Deliverer, the unbelieving Jews placed their hopes in this false messiah a man of deceit and wickedness. They looked to the "man of sin" to lead them to victory and independence. The priesthood, which stood in their way, had been removed. And by August or September of A.D. 70, Paul's entire "man of sin" prophecy of 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-12 was fulfilled. The city and the Temple were burned and destroyed. The covenant nation of Israel and biblical Judaism were forever destroyed.

The Man of sin the son of perdition is alive when The Lord returns because he is destroyed by the brightness of The Lords coming.


The Lord Himself will destroy the man of sin, the son of perdition!

The man of sin will be alive when the Lord returns!

The Lord Himself will destroy him!

... And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


All of the so called historical records in the world can not explain away the simple truth that THE LORD HIMSELF WILL DESTROY THE LAWLESS ONE, THE MAN OF SIN, THE SON OF PERDITION!



THE SCRIPTURE IS THE TRUTH!

JLB

 

[felix]

When the death of Christ split the veil the Holy of Holies was opened ...man did not open that area God did.... there will be no true Holy of Holies no matter how many buildings man builds.... any peoples can build a building they can put a sign over the door calling it 'The Temple' but that does not make it so. Christ is The Temple....
The temple system was destroyed 70 ad . God had the Romans destroy it. The Jewish leaders used the Romans to carry out Gods plan of the sacrifice of Christ...
70 AD God used the same Romans to end their way of life.

If temple system is destroyed, why are the saints serving him day and night in His temple?
(Rev 7:15) "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

The veil torn symbolizes, no more there is a veil between God and man and Christ becomes our mediator and removed the veil at cross.

Just to note, God torn only the veil in the temple when Christ was at cross, not the temple itself is destroyed at that time.

While we are not under the law - Gal 5:18, Christ is born under the law as in Gal 4:4. Every single law we try to say through grace is not valid for Christ for Christ Himself is not under any grace which is from Himself, but law given by His Father and He fulfills every law. But it is through Him who is under the law, we have grace and redeemed us from the curse of the law.

Hence, temple system is not valid for us, but valid for Christ for He is still under the law and must fulfill all law to it's very detail.

You still haven't addressed 2Thess 2:3-5.

 

[reba]

Christ once said..... "it is finished" ..

I see satan in any form (beast,antichrist,son of perdition) as a defeated foe... The gospel keeps going out ..... It has ebbs and flows but it keeps growing...

I believe just as satan was held in check by God concerning Job the same is held in check today .

I will not have the words to clarify so dont ask...

 

[Stormcrow]

The man of sin the son of perdition will be alive when The Lord Jesus physically returns.

Yes. And this was fulfilled when Christ came in judgment upon Jerusalem in 70 AD.

 

[Stormcrow]

If temple system is destroyed, why are the saints serving him day and night in His temple?
(Rev 7:15) "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

Revelation 7 is a view of God's heavenly Temple, the one upon which the earthly one was based! The context of this passage makes this perfectly clear!

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; Revelation 7:9 (NASB)

 

[reba]

If temple system is destroyed, why are the saints serving him day and night in His temple?
(Rev 7:15) "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

When was the last time you had a Levite priest kill a lamb for ya?

The veil torn symbolizes, no more there is a veil between God and man and Christ becomes our mediator and removed the veil at cross.

yup

Just to note, God torn only the veil in the temple when Christ was at cross, not the temple itself is destroyed at that time.

it was destroyed at the end of "this" generation that Jesus was talking about.

While we are not under the law - Gal 5:18, Christ is born under the law as in Gal 4:4. Every single law we try to say through grace is not valid for Christ for Christ Himself is not under any grace which is from Himself, but law given by His Father and He fulfills every law. But it is through Him who is under the law, we have grace and redeemed us from the curse of the law.

Hence, temple system is not valid for us, but valid for Christ for He is still under the law and must fulfill all law to it's very detail.

So Christ the Lamb of God needs to offer a blood sacrifice? Are you really suggesting his death was not the finial Blood sacrifice.? Please tell me i am not understanding...

You still haven't addressed 2Thess 2:3-5.

I did, you may have missed it or just didnt' agree

 

[felix]

Yes. And this was fulfilled when Christ came in judgment upon Jerusalem in 70 AD.

(2Thess 2:8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

So, Christ destroyed this lawless person through His brightness of His coming in 70 AD and then, once seeing that the temple is destroyed, He again went back accepting the defeat? In 70 AD, if God is judging Israel, was He on Romans side or Israel side? If He is on Romans side, is He committing the abomination using Romans? Is He is on Israel side, He is not able to defend Israel? Wow! what a fairy tale!

 

[JLB]

Yes. And this was fulfilled when Christ came in judgment upon Jerusalem in 70 AD.

That is very interesting.

And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So back in 70 AD, when this occurred, how long did this "man of sin", This lawless one perform all these sign and wonders.

Does historical records show when The Lord returned to destroy him with the brightness of His coming?


Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself...Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron.

I guess we missed the return of The Lord, because according to Stormcrow it all happened back in 70 AD!

Well that clears up that mystery.

Thank you Stormcrow for valuable research!

JLB