MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

[Elijah674]

Christ once said..... "it is finished" ..

I see satan in any form (beast,antichrist,son of perdition) as a defeated foe... The gospel keeps going out ..... It has ebbs and flows but it keeps growing...

I believe just as satan was held in check by God concerning Job the same is held in check today .

I will not have the words to clarify so dont ask...

Hey, thats good.:yes But what is the point Felix?? (this generation thread?)

[5] To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[6] Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
[7] In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

--Elijah

 

[Stormcrow]

The Man of sin the son of perdition is alive when The Lord returns because he is destroyed by the brightness of The Lords coming.


The Lord Himself will destroy the man of sin, the son of perdition!

The man of sin will be alive when the Lord returns!

The Lord Himself will destroy him!

... And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


All of the so called historical records in the world can not explain away the simple truth that THE LORD HIMSELF WILL DESTROY THE LAWLESS ONE, THE MAN OF SIN, THE SON OF PERDITION!



THE SCRIPTURE IS THE TRUTH!

JLB

Yes, I believe the Bible is true! What I don't believe is your interpretation of it, which wantonly ignores what Christ told the disciples!

"But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you [His disciples; the men He was addressing standing right there in front of Him], you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23 (NASB)

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you [His disciples; the men He was addressing standing right there in front of Him], there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

You accused me of calling Paul and John liars, and yet what does it speak of your view that ignores and demeans the words of Christ Himself???

Oh, and it wasn't just to His disciples that Jesus said He would see His return. He also said the same thing to Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin at His trial:

But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God." Jesus *said to him [the high priest who addressed Him], "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:63-64 (NASB)

His words here are a direct reference to Daniel 7:

"I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. Daniel 7:13 (NASB)

Christ's second coming was not a return to earth but a presentation before the Father when He received the Kingdom that had been under the stewardship of Israel's priesthood under the Law of Moses! The sign of His presence was the destruction of Jerusalem, which forever ended the Old Covenant system of sacrifice!

"And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. Daniel 7:14 (NASB)

Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages defies and denies the word of Christ.

 

[Stormcrow]

(2Thess 2:8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

So, Christ destroyed this lawless person through His brightness of His coming in 70 AD and then, once seeing that the temple is destroyed, He again went back accepting the defeat? In 70 AD, if God is judging Israel, was He on Romans side or Israel side? If He is on Romans side, is He committing the abomination using Romans? Is He is on Israel side, He is not able to defend Israel? Wow! what a fairy tale!

You need to go back and reread all that I wrote and posted about John of Gischala and try to understand that these prophecies do not revolve around you or your understanding of them.

 

[JLB]

Yes, I believe the Bible is true! What I don't believe is your interpretation of it, which wantonly ignores what Christ told the disciples!

"But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you [His disciples; the men He was addressing standing right there in front of Him], you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23 (NASB)

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you [His disciples; the men He was addressing standing right there in front of Him], there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

You accused me of calling Paul and John liars, and yet what does it speak of your view that ignores and demeans the words of Christ Himself???

Oh, and it wasn't just to His disciples that Jesus said He would see His return. He also said the same thing to Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin at His trial:

But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God." Jesus *said to him [the high priest who addressed Him], "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:63-64 (NASB)

His words here are a direct reference to Daniel 7:

"I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. Daniel 7:13 (NASB)

Christ's second coming was not a return to earth but a presentation before the Father when He received the Kingdom that had been under the stewardship of Israel's priesthood under the Law of Moses! The sign of His presence was the destruction of Jerusalem, which forever ended the Old Covenant system of sacrifice!

"And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. Daniel 7:14 (NASB)

There is nothing you can say that will dispute the fact that -

JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF WILL DESTROY THE LAWLESS ONE, WHEN HE PHYSICALLY RETURNS!

That means the lawless one will be alive on earth when Jesus returns!

This event has yet to happen!

JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

There is nothing you can say that will dispute the fact that -

JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF WILL DESTROY THE LAWLESS ONE, WHEN HE PHYSICALLY RETURNS!

That means the lawless one will be alive on earth when Jesus returns!

This event has yet to happen!

JLB

According to you. Not according to Jesus and His apostles.

Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64) defies and denies the word of Christ.

 

[felix]

So Christ the Lamb of God needs to offer a blood sacrifice? Are you really suggesting his death was not the finial Blood sacrifice.? Please tell me i am not understanding...

(Matt 5:17-18) " Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Christ is under the law and He fulfills the law to it's very detail. The law will be there until the first heavens and earth pass away. Just because we are not under the law but grace, does not mean law ceases to exist. The law exists for Christ for He is born under the law.

Christ is the Passover lamb according to the law. He is the Unleavened Bread, the First Fruits and Weeks or Pentecost which is also fulfilled according to the law.

However, Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles or Booths are remaining according to the law. These are feasts in the law which we don't celebrate but Christ will fulfill.

 

[felix]

According to you. Not according to Jesus and His apostles.

But according to 2Thess 2:8

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

 

[felix]

You need to go back and reread all that I wrote and posted about John of Gischala and try to understand that these prophecies do not revolve around you or your understanding of them.

So, how did John of Gischala die? Brightness of the Lord's coming?

 

[reba]

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[reba]

Keep it friendly guys..

 

[reba]

Is the light of Christ... a bright light like the sun. or is bright light as in wisdom? Do you think it is both? or something different?

 

[JLB]

According to you. Not according to Jesus and His apostles.

Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64) defies and denies the word of Christ.

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Revelation 19:11-15


23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24



There you have it from Jesus, - "the tribes of the earth shall mourn for they will seethe Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, Zechariah 12:10


When Jesus returns, every eye will see Him, just as He says!

When He returns, the Jews will see Him and mourn, just as He says!

When He returns, the Lord will consume the Lawless one with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

There is no other way to interpret the clear, plain words of scripture!

The scriptures have shown the truth here!


JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

There you have it from Jesus, - "the tribes of the earth shall mourn for they will seethe Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, Zechariah 12:10


When Jesus returns, every eye will see Him, just as He says!

When He returns, the Jews will see Him and mourn, just as He says!

When He returns, the Lord will consume the Lawless one with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

There is no other way to interpret the clear, plain words of scripture!

And yet you have no idea what any of this means from the perspective of Christ and His apostles.

That word "earth" is the Greek word "ges" translated elsewhere as "land." So all the tribes (the 12 tribes) of the land (Holy Land) of Israel would see Him. This is not only borne out on the full context of Zechariah 12:10-14 (verses 11-14 which you failed to cite) but is completely consistent with the words He spoke to His disciples in Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:27-28, and those He spoke to Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin in Matthew 26:63-64!

In other words, the passages you understand as future still and better pertain to a past fulfillment in keeping with Christ's words "this generation!"

Furthermore, you failed to cite Matthew 24:29 which provides critical context for the timing of the events of the very next verse!

Here is that passage from Young's Literal:

`And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken; and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory; and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof. Matthew 24:29-31 (YLT)

He's just told them Jerusalem is going to experience tribulation as it has never seen before (:21), and then tells them immediately after the tribulation of those days, all these other things would happen, including His return!

So we have not one but two instances of Christ - in different ways - telling the disciples that some of them would be alive to see His return before that generation had passed away!!!

Futurism/dispensationalsim blinds people to the clear, plain truths of Christ's words and that is why I cannot accept it anymore!

What part of "some standing here will still be alive when I return" isn't perfectly clear?

What part of "immediately after the tribulation of those days" isn't perfectly clear?

Your arguments and interpretations - as expected and always - remain unconvincing.

 

[Stormcrow]

The law will be there until the first heavens and earth pass away.

They passed away with the destruction of Jerusalem's Temple (see the book of Hebrews), which is what the phrase "heaven and earth" represents: the place where heaven met earth. This idea is spread throughout the OT. Research it yourself.

 

[Stormcrow]

Is the light of Christ... a bright light like the sun. or is bright light as in wisdom? Do you think it is both? or something different?

Jesus shot laser beams from His eyes and then cut His enemies in two with the sword He carried in His mouth.

To quote Hitch, "Ain't literalism grand?" :D

 

[JLB]

And yet you have no idea what any of this means from the perspective of Christ and His apostles.

That word "earth" is the Greek word "ges" translated elsewhere as "land." So all the tribes (the 12 tribes) of the land (Holy Land) of Israel would see Him. This is not only borne out on the full context of Zechariah 12:10-14 (verses 11-14 which you failed to cite) but is completely consistent with the words He spoke to His disciples in Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:27-28, and those He spoke to Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin in Matthew 26:63-64!

In other words, the passages you understand as future still and better pertain to a past fulfillment in keeping with Christ's words "this generation!"

Furthermore, you failed to cite Matthew 24:29 which provides critical context for the timing of the events of the very next verse!

Here is that passage from Young's Literal:

`And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken; and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory; and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof. Matthew 24:29-31 (YLT)

He's just told them Jerusalem is going to experience tribulation as it has never seen before (:21), and then tells them immediately after the tribulation of those days, all these other things would happen, including His return!

So we have not one but two instances of Christ - in different ways - telling the disciples that some of them would be alive to see His return before that generation had passed away!!!

Futurism/dispensationalsim blinds people to the clear, plain truths of Christ's words and that is why I cannot accept it anymore!

What part of "some standing here will still be alive when I return" isn't perfectly clear?

What part of "immediately after the tribulation of those days" isn't perfectly clear?

Your arguments and interpretations - as expected and always - remain unconvincing.

Your rambling won't change the fact that the scriptures have proved your "theory" about Jesus Christ returning in 70 AD, WRONG!

The more you continue, the deeper the hole you are digging gets!

When Jesus returns, every eye will see Him!

Revelation 1:7

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.



There you have it from Jesus, - "the tribes of the earth shall mourn for they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, Zechariah 12:10


When Jesus returns, every eye will see Him, just as He says!

When He returns, the Jews will see Him and mourn, just as He says!

When He returns, the Lord will consume the Lawless one with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

There is no other way to interpret the clear, plain words of scripture!


JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

Your rambling won't change the fact that the scriptures have proved your "theory" about Jesus Christ returning in 70 AD, WRONG!

And you're rambling (and repetition) doesn't make you right, as you continue to ignore the words of Christ Himself.

The more you continue, the deeper the hole you are digging gets!

Same could be said of you.

When Jesus returns, every eye will see Him!

Revelation 1:7

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

And this verse parallels Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 26:63-64, which you continue to ignore because these verses disprove your beliefs.

I moved from the position you hold now because it couldn't be sustained when the entirety of New Testament eschatology was viewed in context. You'll never grow in understanding until you accept Christ's words as repeated by Matthew:

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

Until you accept this, you'll never understand what Christ's coming meant.

 

[reba]

The sword of His mouth would be the Word :shocked!

 

[JLB]

And you're rambling (and repetition) doesn't make you right, as you continue to ignore the words of Christ Himself.

Same could be said of you.

And this verse parallels Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 26:63-64, which you continue to ignore because these verses disprove your beliefs.

I moved from the position you hold now because it couldn't be sustained when the entirety of New Testament eschatology was viewed in context. You'll never grow in understanding until you accept Christ's words as repeated by Matthew:

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

Until you accept this, you'll never understand what Christ's coming meant.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


Do you believe the stars have fallen from the sky?

Do you believe Jesus Christ has returned to earth?

Do you believe every eye has seen Him?


Yes or no?


JLB

 

[reba]

JLB


Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.


Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Be careful of literalism.