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MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

And you're rambling (and repetition) doesn't make you right, as you continue to ignore the words of Christ Himself.

Same could be said of you.

And this verse parallels Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 26:63-64, which you continue to ignore because these verses disprove your beliefs.

I moved from the position you hold now because it couldn't be sustained when the entirety of New Testament eschatology was viewed in context. You'll never grow in understanding until you accept Christ's words as repeated by Matthew:

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

Until you accept this, you'll never understand what Christ's coming meant.

10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

What part of come in like manner isn't clear to you!

What part of ALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH WILL SEE HIM isn't clear!

That means every person on earth will see Him when He returns.

When you get that clear in your head then maybe you will understand the truth of the scriptures!


JLB

 
Do you believe the Word has gone out to all the world?

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
 
The destruction of Jerusalem!

I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. Jeremiah 4:26 (KJV)

And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?' Matthew 24:3 (YLT)

The sign of the presence of God in Jeremiah 4:26 is the same sign of the presence (parousia) of Christ in the Olivet Discourse and Revelation.

Just as the destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar was the sign of the presence of God in judgment upon Jerusalem in 586 BC (Jeremiah 4:26), so too was the destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of Titus Flavius of Rome the sign of the presence (parousia) of Christ in judgment upon Jerusalem in 70 AD.

So, you think that Christ has already come a second time?
 
So, you think that Christ has already come a second time?

Yep. If He didn't, He lied to His disciples and to the Sanhedrin. I either have to accept that what He said was true and that did what He said He would, or that He lied to His disciples.

My God is not a liar. Your mileage may vary.
 
What part of ALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH WILL SEE HIM isn't clear!
"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

"some standing here will see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)

"you [Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin] will see THE SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen! Revelation 1:7 (YLT)

Those who did pierce Him are not alive, so how is it possible that this passage can be true of you and them at the same time???

And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. Acts 1:9 (NASB)

They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." Acts 1:11 (NASB)

He was taken into heaven on a cloud. He returned on a cloud, the same way God came in judgment upon every nation and people He judged in the OT. Get a concordance and look up "cloud" and "clouds" in the OT.

That means every person on earth will see Him when He returns.
That's an interpretation not supported by either the Greek of the New Testament or the prophecy of Zechariah in the Old. Again, your interpretation and "proofs" remain unconvincing.
 
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Do you believe the stars have fallen from the sky?

Do you believe the bloom has come off the rose?

Do you understand metaphoric language? Or are you so simple-minded as to believe that every star in the night sky will suddenly fall below the earth's horizon from where you're sitting right now? Nevermind that they would still be visible to someone else on the other side of the globe. If they fall, where do they fall that they won't be seen anymore?

This is the problem with literalism and it's why most thinking people today don't take Christians or our "religion" seriously.

Do you believe Jesus Christ has returned to earth?

Yes He returned in 70 AD. No His return was not a physical return. His presence (parousia) in judgment upon Jerusalem was just as God's presence was in the OT whenever He judged a nation and its people.

The belief in and doctrine of a physical, earthly return of Christ is false teaching.

Do you believe every eye has seen Him?

Every eye that was prophesied to see Him did see Him, just as He promised: before that generation had passed away!

You've got nothing that I haven't heard, believed or taught before and it was as wrong when I believed and taught it to Sunday School then as it is now. I was just too immature in Christ and the understanding of His word to see it.
 
Do you believe the Word has gone out to all the world?

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

At the time of Christ's Matt. 24:14 Truth, yes it would have brought Him in His Second Coming.. if it had not been CONDITIONAL TRUTH of Eccl. 3:15 [[REQUIRED SECOND TIME DOCUMENTED.]] Yes, 'i' stand by Christ's WORD!

--Elijah (if you were asking me?;))
 
OK guys i am on a old barrowed computer it is slower the last year and i can t find spell check.... Stop with the use of the word lie in any tence or form....

We can read scripture differently, see it from different angles, understand it differently, we do not have to resort to calling God or the diciples or eachother liars....


End time forums are fun they get locked because we cant behave like we want or kids to..
 
Do you believe the bloom has come off the rose?

Do you understand metaphoric language? Or are you so simple-minded as to believe that every star in the night sky will suddenly fall below the earth's horizon from where you're sitting right now? Nevermind that they would still be visible to someone else on the other side of the globe. If they fall, where do they fall that they won't be seen anymore?

This is the problem with literalism and it's why most thinking people today don't take Christians or our "religion" seriously.



Yes He returned in 70 AD. No His return was not a physical return. His presence (parousia) in judgment upon Jerusalem was just as God's presence was in the OT whenever He judged a nation and its people.

The belief in and doctrine of a physical, earthly return of Christ is false teaching.



Every eye that was prophesied to see Him did see Him, just as He promised: before that generation had passed away!

You've got nothing that I haven't heard, believed or taught before and it was as wrong when I believed and taught it to Sunday School then as it is now. I was just too immature in Christ and the understanding of His word to see it.


parousia means appearing not presence!


When Jesus returns the dead in Christ will be raised! 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

When Jesus Christ returns, then comes the end!
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:24

When Jesus Christ returns the Lawless one will be consumed by the brightness of His coming [parousia] which means appearing! 2 Thessalonians 2


The truth is the Lawless will be alive when Jesus returns!

He Himself will destroy him!


You and your theory have been weighed and found wanting!

The truth of the word of God has prevailed!

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?


JLB
 
parousia means appearing not presence!
And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence [parousia], and of the full end of the age?' Matthew 24:3 (YLT)

and as the days of Noah--so shall be also the presence [parousia] of the Son of Man; for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark, and they did not know till the flood came and took all away; so shall be also the presence [parousia] of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:37-39 (YLT)

Christ is using the flood story to tell them that His presence [parousia] will be accompanied by destruction and judgment, just as had happened with Noah's flood.

When Jesus returns the dead in Christ will be raised! 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

When Jesus Christ returns, then comes the end!
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:24
Already happened.

...the last enemy is done away--death; for all things He did put under his feet 1 Corinthians 15:26-27 (YLT)

but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2 Timothy 1:10 (NASB)

The gospel counts for nothing in the Futurist view, as the false teachers of this heresy await a yet-to-be-revealed salvation that exists apart from Christ and His sacrifice.

I don't know how they can call themselves "Christian" inasmuch as they deny Christ's words and the power of His blood to save and sanctify.

Men to be most pitied, indeed.

Thankfully, the God I worship is not bound by such ignorance.
 
We can read scripture differently, see it from different angles, understand it differently, we do not have to resort to calling God or the diciples or eachother liars....

I wasn't calling God a liar. The implication of refusing to accept His words, however, is clear:

"...some standing here will see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Either this is true or it is not. If it is not, then Jesus lied to the disciples.

If Jesus lied, there is no logical or moral reason to follow Him. None. Clearly, we all have to decide whether Christ is who He claimed to be and did what He claimed to do.

This is one of those issues that goes right to the question of whether Jesus Christ is Lord, a lunatic, or a liar, as Josh McDowell would put it.

I don't think it's out-of-bounds to ask other Christians whether they believe Christ is capable of lying. If the answer is "no", then I simply have to ask them why they don't believe everything He said.

My use of the logic here is not to inflame or offend but to get people to think.
 
Yep. If He didn't, He lied to His disciples and to the Sanhedrin. I either have to accept that what He said was true and that did what He said He would, or that He lied to His disciples.

My God is not a liar. Your mileage may vary.

Or maybe you misunderstood something. I would be interested in reading some of the accounts of His appearing, however, I'm not aware of anything recorded in history. That's seems rather odd, He comes as a servant and we have all of this upheaveal, yet he comes as a conquering king and nothing's reocrded?
 
That's seems rather odd, He comes as a servant and we have all of this upheaveal, yet he comes as a conquering king and nothing's reocrded?
What did He conquer when He came? Who were His enemies? Have you read Josephus' Wars of the Jews? Do you know that Eusebius points to it as the ultimate historical account of the fulfillment of all things Christ prophesied?

But the number of calamities which then overwhelmed the whole nation; the extreme misery to which particularly the inhabitants of Judea were reduced, the vast numbers of men, with women and children that fell by the sword and famine, and innumerable other forms of death; the numerous and great cities of Judea that were besieged, as also the great and incredible distresses that those experienced who took refuge at Jerusalem, as to a place of perfect security; these facts, as well as the whole tenor of the war, and each particular of its progress, when finally, the abomination of desolation, according to the prophetic declaration, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, but which now was approaching its total down-fall and final destruction by fire; all this, I say, any one that wishes may see accurately stated in the history written by Josephus.

Eusebius Pamphilus, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 85-87.

Read Josephus' Wars of the Jews to understand how Christ's prophecies were all fulfilled before that generation had passed.

Don't confuse your lack of reading with a lack of resources.

Or maybe you misunderstood something.
Once, as a Pre-Mil, Pre-Trib Futurist. Not now.
 
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Is the light of Christ... a bright light like the sun. or is bright light as in wisdom? Do you think it is both? or something different?

(Matt 26:64) Jesus said to him, "[It is as] you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
(Rev 1:7) Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Bright light as in wisdom doesn't come in clouds. My tribe certainly didn't mourn in 70 AD.
 
What did He conquer when He came? Who were His enemies? Have you read Josephus' Wars of the Jews? Do you know that Eusebius points to it as the ultimate historical account of the fulfillment of all things Christ prophesied?

But the number of calamities which then overwhelmed the whole nation; the extreme misery to which particularly the inhabitants of Judea were reduced, the vast numbers of men, with women and children that fell by the sword and famine, and innumerable other forms of death; the numerous and great cities of Judea that were besieged, as also the great and incredible distresses that those experienced who took refuge at Jerusalem, as to a place of perfect security; these facts, as well as the whole tenor of the war, and each particular of its progress, when finally, the abomination of desolation, according to the prophetic declaration, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, but which now was approaching its total down-fall and final destruction by fire; all this, I say, any one that wishes may see accurately stated in the history written by Josephus.

Eusebius Pamphilus, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 85-87.

Read Josephus' Wars of the Jews to understand how Christ's prophecies were all fulfilled before that generation had passed.

Don't confuse your lack of reading with a lack of resources.

Once, as a Pre-Mil, Pre-Trib Futurist. Not now.


Jesus was to reign on the earth that is what evidence I was speaking of. Nothing there speaks of Christ setting His feet on the mount of Olives. Nothing mentioned the onset of righteousness. Do you consider the middle ages the reign of Christ. What happened to there will be no more tears? Where is the holy city that came down out of heaven. Is this the new earth that Isaiah spoke of?
 
I'll even get you started...

Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them.

Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year.

Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it.

At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple.

Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night.

Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies.

So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them.

Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.

Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence."

Now if any one consider these things, he will find that God takes care of mankind, and by all ways possible foreshows to our race what is for their preservation; but that men perish by those miseries which they madly and voluntarily bring upon themselves...

But these men interpreted some of these signals according to their own pleasure, and some of them they utterly despised, until their madness was demonstrated, both by the taking of their city and their own destruction.

Flavius Josephus, The Works of Flavius Josephus, trans. William Whiston (Hartford, CN: S. S. Scranton, 1905), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 848-849.
 
Jesus was to reign on the earth that is what evidence I was speaking of. Nothing there speaks of Christ setting His feet on the mount of Olives. Nothing mentioned the onset of righteousness. Do you consider the middle ages the reign of Christ. What happened to there will be no more tears? Where is the holy city that came down out of heaven. Is this the new earth that Isaiah spoke of?

If there is to be a death of the church, misapplied literalism will be the cause of it.
 
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