MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

[Stormcrow]

Do you believe in Trinity?

Yes. That's not the issue here. Try to stay on topic.

 

[felix]

Yes. That's not the issue here. Try to stay on topic.

Yes, that's the topic here.

If you believe in Trinity, then why did Christ who is in flesh and bones didn't come in 70 AD?

 

[Stormcrow]

Yes, that's the topic here.

If you believe in Trinity, then why did Christ who is in flesh and bones didn't come in 70 AD?

I know you desperately want to change the subject, but stick to the OP:

Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64) defies and denies the word of Christ.

 

[felix]

I know you desperately want to change the subject, but stick to the OP:

Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64) defies and denies the word of Christ.

(Matt 10:23) "When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Read with context not out of context. Christ is sending his disciples as in Matt 10:1and the same context continues till the end until the first verse of the next chapter.

(Matt 11:1) Now it came to pass, when Jesus finished commanding His twelve disciples, that He departed from there to teach and to preach in their cities.

What did He command? To go into cities.
Is Christ going with them? No

This is exactly in context what the verse says: For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel (which He commanded) before the Son of Man comes (when Christ comes back and meet His disciples).

(Matt 16:27-28) "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
(John 8:51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."
The verse simply confirms some standing there keeps His Word and therefore will not taste death but God will raise them just as He raise Christ.

(Matt 26:63-64) But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "[It is as] you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.".
(Rev 1:7) Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Yes, even the High Priest will see Christ including the people who pierced Him on the day of His coming as the dead in Christ will rise first and then the condemned according to Scriptures.

 

[Elijah674]

(Matt 10:23) "When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Read with context not out of context. Christ is sending his disciples as in Matt 10:1and the same context continues till the end until the first verse of the next chapter.

(Matt 11:1) Now it came to pass, when Jesus finished commanding His twelve disciples, that He departed from there to teach and to preach in their cities.

What did He command? To go into cities.
Is Christ going with them? No

This is exactly in context what the verse says: For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel (which He commanded) before the Son of Man comes (when Christ comes back and meet His disciples).

(Matt 16:27-28) "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
(John 8:51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."
The verse simply confirms some standing there keeps His Word and therefore will not taste death but God will raise them just as He raise Christ.

(Matt 26:63-64) But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "[It is as] you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.".
(Rev 1:7) Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Yes, even the High Priest will see Christ including the people who pierced Him on the day of His coming as the dead in Christ will rise first and then the condemned according to Scriptures.

+ Matt. 10:23 has Christ there at that time speaking, meaning that He understood the important Salvational Truth's of HIS WORD of Eccl. 3:15's repeat along with Matt. 24:14 Generation! In other words, it was to be an repeat prophecy! (of 666 proportions)

And this Gospel of the Kingdom?? It will be done in the matter of hours. God did not increase wisdom for satans sports stuff alone, but as for His own purpose. World/wide Satalite.

-Elijah

 

[JLB]

The promise of Daniel 12's resurrection was made to His people, not yours.

The promise of the resurrection in 1 Thessalonians 4 is made to Gentile Christians.

The scripture I am discussing is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

Paul is teaching about the return of Jesus Christ and the resurrection of the dead in Christ! He is writing to Gentile Christians.

Scripture teaches that the resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur when Jesus Christ returns.

Therefore, for you to teach that Jesus Christ returned in 70 AD is heresy.

Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64) defies and denies the word of Christ.

[/QUOTE]

I will let Jesus answer your question.

Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me."

Because you don't understand something Jesus said, does not mean you can create heretical explanations to satisfy yourself!

More misguided literalism. You have no idea or understanding of hyperbolic metaphor, do you?

Matthew 24:30

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Acts 1:9-11

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."


The scriptures once again have proven that what you teach is false!


JLB

 

[felix]

+ Matt. 10:23 has Christ there at that time speaking, meaning that He understood the important Salvational Truth's of HIS WORD of Eccl. 3:15's repeat along with Matt. 24:14 Generation! In other words, it was to be an repeat prophecy! (of 666 proportions)

This is true:

(2Tim 3:12) Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

And this Gospel of the Kingdom?? It will be done in the matter of hours. God did not increase wisdom for satans sports stuff alone, but as for His own purpose. World/wide Satalite.

May be I have misunderstood what you meant, but based on what I understood, I wouldn't agree on this as there are millions and places so remote that Gospel still haven't reached. There are still thousands of languages that does not even have a Bible.

 

[Elijah674]

This is true:

(2Tim 3:12) Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.



May be I have misunderstood what you meant, but based on what I understood, I wouldn't agree on this as there are millions and places so remote that Gospel still haven't reached. There are still thousands of languages that does not even have a Bible.

(my addendum:;) Do you think that Christ is totally dependant on us?? if so, read Rom. 2:14-15 and how these ones had only been saved by finding Christ in His nature! And what was written in there hearts?)

Hi, 'i' am as clear as mud, huh? (I was going to put a :yes there, but this is serious!)

As I see it, we are going to have the Rev. 17:1-5 + all of the Matt. 7 Broadway ones & even these Spewed out Rev. 3:16 Laodicea whole group as seen in Matt. 6:24's ANTICHRIST UNITED ENDING. (united lost)

OK: Surely you & I both find Dan. 12:4 + Hosea 4:6 with the much increased knowledge coming forth in just a small part of our Matt. 24 'generation'?? The wars, the diasters, the moral decay, the professed 'c'hristians, and on & on! And where do we find this seen & recorded daily but in print and BY WORLD Satalite, TV + computor.

Now, just have the world to be found in Matt. 24:21 'time' of satans allowed wrath? that we surely are well into as we speak, and what will they all be saying & doing except repent??? (and yes some will surely do so! Rev. 18:4) We will see a real revival all right, but not a REFORMATION. Anything to get out of the Lord's allowed Judgements. Then On comes the 666 testing so God can be just in and quickly finishing it [ALL UP!]

And what do these ones all mostly agree on at present? Dan. 7:25 of romes sun/switch of the Lords 7th Day Sabbath. And who will be claimed as the cause of all of satans hell breaking loose? The ones that do not go along with the large majority.

It will all start in the Lamb to dragon/like USA & end up no doubt in the UN Court. And if you think that all will not be watching this world court trial? Check the records of satalite viewing of the war news, + all major sports events, or even the devil's movies. No, it will not take any time per/say to warn the world of Rev. 14:6-10 666 End Message.

Just think, these 'nuts' as we will be know as by all professed christians, will die before they will dis/obey God & violate His 7th Day Sabbath Commandment. (James 2:10)

Anyway, this is the way that I see it coming to a climax.

--Elijah

 

[felix]

And what do these ones all mostly agree on at present? Dan. 7:25 of romes sun/switch of the Lords 7th Day Sabbath. And who will be claimed as the cause of all of satans hell breaking loose? The ones that do not go along with the large majority.

It will all start in the Lamb to dragon/like USA & end up no doubt in the UN Court. And if you think that all will not be watching this world court trial? Check the records of satalite viewing of the war news, + all major sports events, or even the devil's movies. No, it will not take any time per/say to warn the world of Rev. 14:6-10 666 End Message.

Just think, these 'nuts' as we will be know as by all professed christians, will die before they will dis/obey God & violate His 7th Day Sabbath Commandment. (James 2:10)

Anyway, this is the way that I see it coming to a climax.

I would generally disagree about Sabbath as using the old covenant and going to the Father is like a divorced wife going back to her former husband which is an abomination (you can find more on the blog on my Signature). However, it is worth considering that 666 is not really numbers but mistranslated Arabic symbols into Greek. To test my theory, I asked what it means showing him the three Greek alphabets χξς from a manuscript and asked him to read and he answered bismillah (الله‎ = allah).

View attachment 2569

Why it is not 666?
Because, no where in Revelation, when specifying a number, symbols were used. For example:
(Rev 12:6) Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

The 1260 is not written in Greek letters having numeric values but expanded as
χιλιας G5507[A THOUSAND διακοσιας G1250 TWO HUNDRED " AND"] εξηκοντα G1835 SIXTY.]

Hence, John is not speaking about 666 but something entirely different. The only convincing explanation I can accept till date is,
χξς = X (crossed swords - a symbol for Islam) الله ( Allah)

 

[JLB]

I would generally disagree about Sabbath as using the old covenant and going to the Father is like a divorced wife going back to her former husband which is an abomination (you can find more on the blog on my Signature). However, it is worth considering that 666 is not really numbers but mistranslated Arabic symbols into Greek. To test my theory, I asked what it means showing him the three Greek alphabets χξς from a manuscript and asked him to read and he answered bismillah (الله‎ = allah).

View attachment 3137

Why it is not 666?
Because, no where in Revelation, when specifying a number, symbols were used. For example:
(Rev 12:6) Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

The 1260 is not written in Greek letters having numeric values but expanded as
χιλιας G5507[A THOUSAND διακοσιας G1250 TWO HUNDRED " AND"] εξηκοντα G1835 SIXTY.]

Hence, John is not speaking about 666 but something entirely different. The only convincing explanation I can accept till date is,
χξς = X (crossed swords - a symbol for Islam) الله ( Allah)

and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

... the number of his name.

it is the number of a man: His number is 666.


JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

The scripture I am discussing is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

Paul is teaching about the return of Jesus Christ and the resurrection of the dead in Christ! He is writing to Gentile Christians.

He is writing to both Jews and Gentiles! There were Jews all over Asia, Greece, and the rest of Europe even back then, and the first century church was made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers!

Do you deny that a bodily resurrection had already occurred - in part - composed of nothing but Jewish saints? If so, you are the one at odds with God's word!

Scripture teaches that the resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur when Jesus Christ returns.

Yes. And he returned before that generation had passed, while some of those He was addressing were still living! That was the promise He made to His disciples: It was not made to you!

"But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

"Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:34-36 (NASB)

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:29-30 (ESV)

Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (ESV)

Therefore you [the disciples He was addressing on the Mount of Olives!] also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. Matthew 24:44 (ESV)

Jesus said to *Caiaphas, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:64 (ESV)

"But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man." Luke 21:36 (NASB)

"These things I have spoken to you so that you may be kept from stumbling. "They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. "These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me. "But these things I have spoken to you, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. These things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you. John 16:1-4 (NASB)

the times, indeed, therefore, of the ignorance God having overlooked, doth now command all men everywhere to reform, because He did set a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness, by a man whom He did ordain, having given assurance to all, having raised him out of the dead.' Acts 17:30-31 (YLT)

having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous; Acts 24:15 (YLT)

so that you [Corinthians!] are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 (NASB)

But this I say, brethren, the time has been shortened, so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; and those who weep, as though they did not weep; and those who rejoice, as though they did not rejoice; and those who buy, as though they did not possess; and those who use the world, as though they did not make full use of it; for the form of this world is passing away. 1 Corinthians 7:29-31 (NASB)

Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. Philippians 4:4-5 (NASB)

For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you [Thessalonians] turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 (NASB)

For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you [Thessalonians], in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? For you are our glory and joy. 1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 (NASB)

I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign-- 2 Timothy 4:1 (YLT)

When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)

so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9:28 (NASB)

Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. James 5:7-8 (NASB)

Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 1:13 (NASB)

The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17 (ESV)

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 (NASB)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, Revelation 1:1 (NASB)

Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 1:3 (NASB)

~'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth. Revelation 2:16 (NASB)

~'Nevertheless what you [Thyatira] have, hold fast until I come. Revelation 2:25 (NASB)

~'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. ~'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. Revelation 3:10-11 (NASB)

And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:6-7 (NASB)

And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB)

"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. Revelation 22:12 (NASB)

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20 (NASB)

Jesus said He would return while some of them still lived and they passed on that belief in the letters they wrote. Their belief in His imminent return was pervasive and overwhelming. If Jesus Christ did not come as He promised them, then He lied to them and they - in turn - have lied to us.

But you still have no doctrine that addresses the overwhelming mountain of scripture I've just presented, all of which points to His return in 70 AD: while some of them still lived and before that generation had passed away!

Your mere belief in and repeated assertions of a man-made doctrine is not proof that your doctrine is true.

As this post is long, I will end it here.

 

[felix]

Bismillah/allah is a mark and a name but not a number.

However, I believe, when those days come, it will be much evident for the saints living in that time period. Trying to identify a future kingdom would be impossible right now.

(Rev 13:18) Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number [is] χξς .

Wisdom and Understanding:
(Job 28:28) And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom, And to depart from evil [is] understanding.' "

Interestingly, "the calculate" refers to "vote".
Thayer
- Original: ψηφίζω
- Transliteration: Psephizo
- Phonetic: psay-fid'-zo
- Definition:
1. to count with pebbles, to compute, calculate, reckon
2. to give one's vote by casting a pebble into the urn
3. to decide by voting
- Origin: from G5586
- TDNT entry: 19:04,1
- Part(s) of speech: Verb

Number
Number could also simply mean group of people. Below is a classic example. "those who were" (bolded) doesn't exist in Greek.
(Rev 7:4) And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred [and] forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel [were] sealed:

If I try to rephrase,
Here is fear of the Lord. Let him who depart from evil decide the people of the beast which is by voting, for it is the people of a man: His people [is] χξς

Muslims are truly a people of a man called Mohammed.

May be I am tried too much.. I am not an expert on Greek but I am happy to learn other views and opinions on this if something convincing comes across. As I stated earlier, we might be trying to identify a future kingdom would be impossible right now and it will be revealed at it's own time.

 

[felix]

Stormcrow,

Not sure if you had overlooked or missed the post # 404 where I clearly addressed (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64).

 

[Stormcrow]

You should come into the light of truth.

Your doctrine is neither light nor truth, as illustrated by the overwhelming amount of evidence arrayed against you: evidence coming both from Christ and the apostles themselves.

Case in point:

This is exactly in context what the verse says: For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel (which He commanded) before the Son of Man comes (when Christ comes back and meet His disciples).

This is such an absolutely ridiculous and outrageous assertion, I'm surprised even you would make it! His "coming" referenced here is not when He would meet them after they returned from their missionary trip! The Greek word is "erchomai" and it's the same word used here:

and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming [erchomai] upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory; Matthew 24:30 (YLT)

 

[felix]

This is such an absolutely ridiculous and outrageous assertion, I'm surprised even you would make it! His "coming" referenced here is not when He would meet them after they returned from their missionary trip! The Greek word is "erchomai" and it's the same word used here:

and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming [erchomai] upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory; Matthew 24:30 (YLT)

You've got nothing I want or need.

"erchomai" doesn't mean only Jesus coming as you projected.

The same greek word is used in 424 places - yet just a few less than 10 is about Jesus second coming.

Jesus referring to Himself as "Son of Man" is nothing new as He refers Himself that way nearly 30 times in Gospel of Mathew alone.

(Matt 8:19-20) ... Foxes have holes and birds of the air [have] nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay [His] head.
(Matt 9:6) But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins"
(Matt 12:7-8) For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Matthew 10 has absolutely nothing to even suggest that He is speaking about Jesus second coming.

Matthew 10
(Matt 10:1) And when He had called His twelve disciples to [Him,] He gave them power [over] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. ... (Matt 10:5) These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. ... (Matt 10:16) " Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
(Matt 11:1) Now it came to pass, when Jesus finished commanding His twelve disciples, that He departed from there to teach and to preach in their cities.

Matthew 10 is about instructions to His disciples for their missionary trip. You got it wrong.

 

[JLB]

But you still have no doctrine that addresses the overwhelming mountain of scripture I've just presented, all of which points to His return in 70 AD: while some of them still lived and before that generation had passed away!

all of which points to His return in 70 AD

You don't have one shred of scripture that points to Jesus return in 70 AD!

The scriptures teach us that:

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 1-12


for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

What you would have us believe is, in a mere 40 years, the gospel went out to all the world so that everyone in the world heard the gospel and then the "falling away" came then the "man of sin" the "son of perdition" was revealed in the temple, he did his work of deceiving by means of all power, signs, and lying wonders, then the Lord Jesus returned and destroyed him with the brightness of His coming and then the Roman army came and destroyed the temple, all in the span of 40 years!


Is that what you are trying to convince us of, based on -

When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23


JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

yet just a few less than 10 is about Jesus second coming.

And two of those are found in Matthew 10:23 and 24:30.

Matthew 10 has absolutely nothing to even suggest that He is speaking about Jesus second coming.

Matthew 10
(Matt 10:1) And when He had called His twelve disciples to [Him,] He gave them power [over] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. ... (Matt 10:5) These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. ... (Matt 10:16) " Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

Why did you skip all the verses in it about the persecution they would face??? Because they don't align to your unique and wholly irrational reading of the text!

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. "But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. "For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:16-23 (NASB)

This is the same thing He tells them in Matthew 24, which is in direct response to their question about His second coming!!!

"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:9-14 (NASB)

You are seriously grasping at straws here to prop up an absurd interpretation of the text and - in so doing - are purposely misleading many seeking the truth in this thread.

That's on your head.

 

[Stormcrow]

You don't have one shred of scripture that points to Jesus return in 70 AD!

Nope. Got a whole book. It's called "Wars of the Jews" written by Flavius Josephus, and in it you will find everything about Christ's presence at the destruction of Jerusalem just as Christ Himself prophesied. So says Eusebius.

Read it. There is much to learn.

But more importantly, the very fact that not a single word of the New Testament speaks to the destruction of Jerusalem as a past event simply illustrates that not a single word of it was written after 70 AD. Ooops! I think I just heard another bubble of the futurist delusion burst! :biglol

What you would have us believe is, in a mere 40 years, the gospel went out to all the world so that everyone in the world heard the gospel and then the "falling away" came then the "man of sin" the "son of perdition" was revealed in the temple, he did his work of deceiving by means of all power, signs, and lying wonders, then the Lord Jesus returned and destroyed him with the brightness of His coming and then the Roman army came and destroyed the temple, all in the span of 40 years!

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Clearly, your mind is already made up. I have simply posted Christ's words and those of His apostles. Take them or leave them. But if you don't believe them, why call yourself "Christian?" If His word isn't true in everything He said, He is not worth following and you are wasting your time doing so.

Those are the implications of the doctrine you have chosen to accept over His word.

You still have yet to present any doctrine that encompasses all of these passages in a rational, contextual manner.

 

[felix]

And two of those are found in Matthew 10:23 and 24:30.

You got it wrong and continue to do so.

Matthew 10 has absolutely nothing to even suggest that He is speaking about Jesus second coming.

Why did you skip all the verses in it about the persecution they would face??? Because they don't align to your unique and wholly irrational reading of the text!

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. "But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. "For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:16-23 (NASB)

This is the same thing He tells them in Matthew 24, which is in direct response to their question about His second coming!!!

"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:9-14 (NASB)

You are seriously grasping at straws here to prop up an absurd interpretation of the text and - in so doing - are purposely misleading many seeking the truth in this thread.

That's on your head.

I did not skip verses. In all the verses I mentioned, I was showing you that God was commanding/instructing His disciples for the ministry trip right through the chapter and it is not about end times.

Matt 10:23 is in context with the persecution they will receive which will disable them to visit all cities of Israel during the ministry trip send by Jesus.

 

[reba]

You guys are keeping me too busy!