Stormcrow
Member
Do you believe in Trinity?
Yes. That's not the issue here. Try to stay on topic.
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
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Do you believe in Trinity?
Yes. That's not the issue here. Try to stay on topic.
Yes, that's the topic here.
If you believe in Trinity, then why did Christ who is in flesh and bones didn't come in 70 AD?
I know you desperately want to change the subject, but stick to the OP:
Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64) defies and denies the word of Christ.
(Matt 10:23) "When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Read with context not out of context. Christ is sending his disciples as in Matt 10:1and the same context continues till the end until the first verse of the next chapter.
(Matt 11:1) Now it came to pass, when Jesus finished commanding His twelve disciples, that He departed from there to teach and to preach in their cities.
What did He command? To go into cities.
Is Christ going with them? No
This is exactly in context what the verse says: For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel (which He commanded) before the Son of Man comes (when Christ comes back and meet His disciples).
(Matt 16:27-28) "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
(John 8:51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."
The verse simply confirms some standing there keeps His Word and therefore will not taste death but God will raise them just as He raise Christ.
(Matt 26:63-64) But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "[It is as] you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.".
(Rev 1:7) Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Yes, even the High Priest will see Christ including the people who pierced Him on the day of His coming as the dead in Christ will rise first and then the condemned according to Scriptures.
The promise of the resurrection in 1 Thessalonians 4 is made to Gentile Christians.The promise of Daniel 12's resurrection was made to His people, not yours.
[/QUOTE]Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64) defies and denies the word of Christ.
Matthew 24:30More misguided literalism. You have no idea or understanding of hyperbolic metaphor, do you?
+ Matt. 10:23 has Christ there at that time speaking, meaning that He understood the important Salvational Truth's of HIS WORD of Eccl. 3:15's repeat along with Matt. 24:14 Generation! In other words, it was to be an repeat prophecy! (of 666 proportions)
And this Gospel of the Kingdom?? It will be done in the matter of hours. God did not increase wisdom for satans sports stuff alone, but as for His own purpose. World/wide Satalite.
This is true:
(2Tim 3:12) Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
May be I have misunderstood what you meant, but based on what I understood, I wouldn't agree on this as there are millions and places so remote that Gospel still haven't reached. There are still thousands of languages that does not even have a Bible.
And what do these ones all mostly agree on at present? Dan. 7:25 of romes sun/switch of the Lords 7th Day Sabbath. And who will be claimed as the cause of all of satans hell breaking loose? The ones that do not go along with the large majority.
It will all start in the Lamb to dragon/like USA & end up no doubt in the UN Court. And if you think that all will not be watching this world court trial? Check the records of satalite viewing of the war news, + all major sports events, or even the devil's movies. No, it will not take any time per/say to warn the world of Rev. 14:6-10 666 End Message.
Just think, these 'nuts' as we will be know as by all professed christians, will die before they will dis/obey God & violate His 7th Day Sabbath Commandment. (James 2:10)
Anyway, this is the way that I see it coming to a climax.
I would generally disagree about Sabbath as using the old covenant and going to the Father is like a divorced wife going back to her former husband which is an abomination (you can find more on the blog on my Signature). However, it is worth considering that 666 is not really numbers but mistranslated Arabic symbols into Greek. To test my theory, I asked what it means showing him the three Greek alphabets χξς from a manuscript and asked him to read and he answered bismillah (الله = allah).
View attachment 3137
Why it is not 666?
Because, no where in Revelation, when specifying a number, symbols were used. For example:
(Rev 12:6) Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
The 1260 is not written in Greek letters having numeric values but expanded as
χιλιας G5507[A THOUSAND διακοσιας G1250 TWO HUNDRED " AND"] εξηκοντα G1835 SIXTY.]
Hence, John is not speaking about 666 but something entirely different. The only convincing explanation I can accept till date is,
χξς = X (crossed swords - a symbol for Islam) الله ( Allah)
He is writing to both Jews and Gentiles! There were Jews all over Asia, Greece, and the rest of Europe even back then, and the first century church was made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers!The scripture I am discussing is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.
Paul is teaching about the return of Jesus Christ and the resurrection of the dead in Christ! He is writing to Gentile Christians.
Yes. And he returned before that generation had passed, while some of those He was addressing were still living! That was the promise He made to His disciples: It was not made to you!Scripture teaches that the resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur when Jesus Christ returns.
Your doctrine is neither light nor truth, as illustrated by the overwhelming amount of evidence arrayed against you: evidence coming both from Christ and the apostles themselves.You should come into the light of truth.
This is such an absolutely ridiculous and outrageous assertion, I'm surprised even you would make it! His "coming" referenced here is not when He would meet them after they returned from their missionary trip! The Greek word is "erchomai" and it's the same word used here:This is exactly in context what the verse says: For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel (which He commanded) before the Son of Man comes (when Christ comes back and meet His disciples).
This is such an absolutely ridiculous and outrageous assertion, I'm surprised even you would make it! His "coming" referenced here is not when He would meet them after they returned from their missionary trip! The Greek word is "erchomai" and it's the same word used here:
and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming [erchomai] upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory; Matthew 24:30 (YLT)
You've got nothing I want or need.
But you still have no doctrine that addresses the overwhelming mountain of scripture I've just presented, all of which points to His return in 70 AD: while some of them still lived and before that generation had passed away!
You don't have one shred of scripture that points to Jesus return in 70 AD!all of which points to His return in 70 AD
And two of those are found in Matthew 10:23 and 24:30.yet just a few less than 10 is about Jesus second coming.
Why did you skip all the verses in it about the persecution they would face??? Because they don't align to your unique and wholly irrational reading of the text!Matthew 10 has absolutely nothing to even suggest that He is speaking about Jesus second coming.
Matthew 10
(Matt 10:1) And when He had called His twelve disciples to [Him,] He gave them power [over] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. ... (Matt 10:5) These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. ... (Matt 10:16) " Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
Nope. Got a whole book. It's called "Wars of the Jews" written by Flavius Josephus, and in it you will find everything about Christ's presence at the destruction of Jerusalem just as Christ Himself prophesied. So says Eusebius.You don't have one shred of scripture that points to Jesus return in 70 AD!
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Clearly, your mind is already made up. I have simply posted Christ's words and those of His apostles. Take them or leave them. But if you don't believe them, why call yourself "Christian?" If His word isn't true in everything He said, He is not worth following and you are wasting your time doing so.What you would have us believe is, in a mere 40 years, the gospel went out to all the world so that everyone in the world heard the gospel and then the "falling away" came then the "man of sin" the "son of perdition" was revealed in the temple, he did his work of deceiving by means of all power, signs, and lying wonders, then the Lord Jesus returned and destroyed him with the brightness of His coming and then the Roman army came and destroyed the temple, all in the span of 40 years!
And two of those are found in Matthew 10:23 and 24:30.
You got it wrong and continue to do so.
Matthew 10 has absolutely nothing to even suggest that He is speaking about Jesus second coming.
Why did you skip all the verses in it about the persecution they would face??? Because they don't align to your unique and wholly irrational reading of the text!
"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. "But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. "For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:16-23 (NASB)
This is the same thing He tells them in Matthew 24, which is in direct response to their question about His second coming!!!
"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:9-14 (NASB)
You are seriously grasping at straws here to prop up an absurd interpretation of the text and - in so doing - are purposely misleading many seeking the truth in this thread.
That's on your head.