MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

[reba]

I am simple, more than once, Jesus said the resurrection was the last day. I trust Him at His Word.

If you need to fit His words into your view be my guest. I dont claim full knowledge of Scripture. I do my best to have my thoughts be with in His Word.

Not dodging your question if i had a different answer i would give it..
I do not see conflict between His words in John and 1 thess 4 16-17

How about you fit the words of Jesus into your view of Scripture.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for clarifying your bold red etc style :yes
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[reba]

I think i got lost in the last post :eeeekkk

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I dont worry about when or if He will return.... He will when it is thee right time

 

[Elijah674]

I am simple, more than once, Jesus said the resurrection was the last day. I trust Him at His Word.

If you need to fit His words into your view be my guest. I dont claim full knowledge of Scripture. I do my best to have my thoughts be with in His Word.

Not dodging your question if i had a different answer i would give it..
I do not see conflict between His words in John and 1 thess 4 16-17

How about you fit the words of Jesus into your view of Scripture.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

Thanks for clarifying your bold red etc style :yes​

Hi, there are two resurection. When Christ comes again, He brings His reward of life or death. (saved or lost based on Ecc. 12:13-14 Whole BOOK RECORD'S Conclusion)

Then we find two things happening. There are two class alive, both wicked & the rightous. And in the graves there two class dead, at this time the rightous will be resurrected & then will go back to heaven for the Judgement of Executional Second death of the wicked. And the wicked that were still alive when Christ comes for the saved first resurected ones, will then be slain & having all the wicked DEAD until their second resurection. Rev. 20 tells of these two resurections.

Note this verse:
2 Thess.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ [[shall rise first]]:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And the 1000 yrs.? There are 1000 yrs. between the saved having their resurrection & the wiked haveing their resurrection to die their eternal second death. (Obad. 1:16)

Note 1 Cor. 6:2-3 All of the wicked had been judged lost when Christ comes again. But we will even have a part in their execution length of judgement.
[2] Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
[3] Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

--Elijah

 

[JLB]

I think i got lost in the last post :eeeekkk

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I dont worry about when or if He will return.... He will when it is thee right time

Amen!

 

[Stormcrow]

To believe Jesus will not come in clouds is denying His very nature of Him being flesh and bones.

When did I ever deny His humanity? When did I ever write that He didn't come in the clouds?

He returned in a cloud just as He left but His return was to judge Israel! That happened in 70 AD!

Just as Nebuchadnezzar and the armies of Babylon were used by God to judge Judah and Jerusalem in 586 BC, Titus and the armies of Rome were used by Christ to judge Jerusalem and Judea in 70 AD!

Everything that He prophesied came to pass before that generation passed away, just as He said it would. So look at everything He prophesied and understand that none of it was meant for you!

If you can't accept that, you'll continue to live your life torn between false hope and bitter disappointment.

 

[JLB]

When did I ever deny His humanity? When did I ever write that He didn't come in the clouds?

He returned in a cloud just as He left but His return was to judge Israel! That happened in 70 AD!

Just as Nebuchadnezzar and the armies of Babylon were used by God to judge Judah and Jerusalem in 586 BC, Titus and the armies of Rome were used by Christ to judge Jerusalem and Judea in 70 AD!

Everything that He prophesied came to pass before that generation passed away, just as He said it would. So look at everything He prophesied and understand that none of it was meant for you!

If you can't accept that, you'll continue to live your life torn between false hope and bitter disappointment.

Speak for yourself. If you have to come up with some spiritualized , esoteric version of the truth, so as not to "upset" the reality you have created for yourself, then that is between you and God on Judgement Day!

The hope of all of Christianity is The return of Jesus Christ and the resurrection!


16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthian 15:16-24

Again, I will say this loud and clear that there is no mistake!

If any teaches that Christ has already returned, they are teaching heresy!

Paul said -

3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:3-5,8-9

Same Paul who wrote about the resurrection and the coming of The Lord!


... if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.


JLB

 

[felix]

reba,

It is not worth for me fighting the fruits of heresy but plucking the root of it, so that it doesn't grow again.

Can you please address post #367 ?

According to Nick's statement in another thread, all moderators believe SoF. The statement,

There is one true God, eternally existing in three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

is much clearer to spell out Trinity. These three persons are NOT interchangeable. Neither Father nor Holy Spirit was crucified on the Cross. Neither Father nor the Holy Spirit have flesh and bones.

Do you believe in the concept of Trinity?

This is why I posted in another thread to expand SoF to spell out things to reduce noise like these concepts based on heresy.

 

[reba]

If you are asking me if i believe the trinity teaching to be true. the answer is yes...

It is not worth for me fighting the fruits of heresy but plucking the root of it, so that it doesn't grow again.

you like the rest of us need to get the beam out of your own eye

 

[felix]

If you are asking me if i believe the trinity teaching to be true. the answer is yes...

If you believe in the concept of Trinity, why then you substitute Christ who is in flesh and bones with Holy Spirit in 70 AD, which is heresy?

 

[reba]

If you believe in the concept of Trinity, why then you substitute Christ who is in flesh and bones with Holy Spirit in 70 AD, which is heresy?

I have not a clue what you are saying/asking!

 

[felix]

I have not a clue what you are saying/asking!

Do you not believe that Christ will not come in flesh and bones in His second coming?

Do you not believe that Christ came in 70 AD not as flesh and bones?

 

[reba]

That has been answered here more then once....

I await my Lords return.

 

[felix]

That has been answered here more then once....

I await my Lords return.

Thanks for clarifying. Some posts made me think you are a Preterst.

 

[Elijah674]

That has been answered here more then once....

I await my Lords return.

Me to! and yes, Christ did indeed send the Holy Spirit back after He accended from the grave as man, and to testify of Christ, and not Himself. And yes, now Christ can be shed Himself abroad 'omnipresent' in ones Born Again hearts, but only spiritually.

And Daniel 12 has it seen this way...
[1] And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

(even see Rev. 11:18-19 'time'
[18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
[19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.)

[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Verse 4 surely brings to light much knowledge & running to and fro?? And a 'time' to find pre/judgement! Yes, it sure seems that it is close to [this generation] at least?
And what is following Matt. 24:21 on??? I just find it beyond reason how any 'elect' one could fall for this?? Then I read these many forums!

--Elijah

 

[Sinthesis]

you like the rest of us need to get the beam out of your own eye

Mine messes with my depth perception;) and limits me to shallow posts like this one.

 

[Stormcrow]

16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthian 15:16-24

Again, I will say this loud and clear that there is no mistake!

If any teaches that Christ has already returned, they are teaching heresy!

Everything Paul wrote about the parousia of Christ and the resurrection was written before 65 AD, when he was martyred in Rome. Had Paul lived through the events of 70 AD, I have no doubt we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Now, since I am already a heretic in your eyes, let me drop one more bombshell on you:

The physical resurrection wasn't meant for us, either!

"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time (Matthew 24:15); and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

The prophecy of a physical resurrection was meant for Daniel's people - NOT YOU!

One part of it already happened!

And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:51-53 (NASB)

There were no "Christians" or tombs of Gentiles in Jerusalem after Christ's resurrection, so this prophecy was fulfilled - in part - when Jesus rose!

The rest were raised when Christ returned in 70 AD because the promise was made to Daniel's people, not you!

The second resurrection was for the purpose of judging israel and was prophesied by Jesus here!

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. Matthew 25:31-33 (NASB)

The judgment of the nations happened with His second coming, and He said His second coming would happen while some of them were still alive and walking this earth!!!

There can, therefore, be only one event that meets the criteria for fulfillment of everything Christ prophesied about His return, the resurrection, and the judgment:

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD!

the times, indeed, therefore, of the ignorance God having overlooked, doth now command all men everywhere to reform, because He did set a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness, by a man whom He did ordain, having given assurance to all, having raised him out of the dead.' Acts 17:30-31 (YLT)

having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous; Acts 24:15 (YLT)

I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign-- 2 Timothy 4:1 (YLT)

That is the clear, unadulterated truth of Christ's words. Time will tell who is right on this matter but - so far - time and the events of history have proven me and Jesus right.

You, on the other hand, have no framework for understanding what Christ said because you deny this simple statement:

"...some standing here will see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Either what He said is true or not. If you don't believe it, why do you follow Him???

... if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Paul wouldn't recognize your gospel.

 

[Stormcrow]

The hope of all of Christianity is The return of Jesus Christ and the resurrection!

Then you're living a lie. The promise of His return and resurrection wasn't made to you!

See post immediately above this one.

Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64) defies and denies the word of Christ.

 

[felix]

Stormcrow,

Please address post # 367 before posting all jargon having roots in a heresy.

---Post #367---

If you had missed this, please address this first:

Jesus Himself said He is not a Spirit:

(Luke 24:39) "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."

To believe Jesus will not come in clouds is denying His very nature of Him being flesh and bones.

Father is not the Son, Son is not the Holy Spirit and Father is not the Holy Spirit, yet all three are One. Believing in Father is the Son or Son is the Holy Spirit or Holy Spirit is the Father is Sabellianism which is a heresy. It is also labelled as Patripassianism by Tertullian.

Substituting Holy Spirit in place of Jesus Christ where Scripture plainly speaks about Christ, is heresy called Sabellianism and a direct denial of of the concept of Trinity.

Do you believe in Trinity?

---

 

[JLB]

Everything Paul wrote about the parousia of Christ and the resurrection was written before 65 AD, when he was martyred in Rome. Had Paul lived through the events of 70 AD, I have no doubt we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Now, since I am already a heretic in your eyes, let me drop one more bombshell on you:

The physical resurrection wasn't meant for us, either!

"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time (Matthew 24:15); and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

The prophecy of a physical resurrection was meant for Daniel's people - NOT YOU!

One part of it already happened!

And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:51-53 (NASB)

There were no "Christians" or tombs of Gentiles in Jerusalem after Christ's resurrection, so this prophecy was fulfilled - in part - when Jesus rose!

The rest were raised when Christ returned in 70 AD because the promise was made to Daniel's people, not you!

The second resurrection was for the purpose of judging israel and was prophesied by Jesus here!

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. Matthew 25:31-33 (NASB)

The judgment of the nations happened with His second coming, and He said His second coming would happen while some of them were still alive and walking this earth!!!

There can, therefore, be only one event that meets the criteria for fulfillment of everything Christ prophesied about His return, the resurrection, and the judgment:

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD!

the times, indeed, therefore, of the ignorance God having overlooked, doth now command all men everywhere to reform, because He did set a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness, by a man whom He did ordain, having given assurance to all, having raised him out of the dead.' Acts 17:30-31 (YLT)

having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous; Acts 24:15 (YLT)

I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign-- 2 Timothy 4:1 (YLT)

That is the clear, unadulterated truth of Christ's words. Time will tell who is right on this matter but - so far - time and the events of history have proven me and Jesus right.

You, on the other hand, have no framework for understanding what Christ said because you deny this simple statement:

"...some standing here will see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Either what He said is true or not. If you don't believe it, why do you follow Him???

Paul wouldn't recognize your gospel.

The church in Thessalonica that Paul wrote this to were Gentile believers!

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

Jesus said -

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.


As long as The sun,moon,stars are still in the sky, Jesus hasn't returned, that's His word.

I am sorry that you don't believe Jesus or Paul. I am sorry that some misguided preacher has come along and convinced you that Jesus has already returned!

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

20 Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, "Lord, who is the one who betrays You?" [This was asked of Him after He was raised from the dead]
21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me." 23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"


...Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"

Why would Peter ask Jesus who betrayed Him, after He was crucified?


You don't take a vague scripture you don't understand and overrule the clear and plain scripture with it to come up with a twisted heretical doctrine!


Here's a question for you.

Was Abraham's bosom, that Luke 16 refers to for Jews or Gentiles?


JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

The church in Thessalonica that Paul wrote this to were Gentile believers!

Some were Jews, some were Gentiles. The promise of Daniel 12's resurrection was made to His people, not yours.

As long as The sun,moon,stars are still in the sky, Jesus hasn't returned, that's His word.

More misguided literalism. You have no idea or understanding of hyperbolic metaphor, do you?

If people spent half as much time studying the OT as they do the New, they would understand this stuff.

You don't take a vague scripture you don't understand and overrule the clear and plain scripture with it to come up with a twisted heretical doctrine!

Good advice. You should follow it.

Unless and until you can offer a better explanation as to how Christ's second coming - promised to His disciples while some of them still lived and walked this earth - is meant to be seen and experienced by you, I will not accept any interpretation you offer because any such explanation that ignores these passages (Matt.10:23, Matt.16:27-28, Matt. 26:63-64) defies and denies the word of Christ.