Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?
- Thread starter Divinyl
- Start date
smaller
Member
You haven't read Tacitus yet, have you?2
What part of "about to come" isn't abundantly clear?
Context. Context. Context!
Tacitus going to redo Jesus Words to fit your view better..?
smaller
Member
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Stormcrow
Member
Tacitus going to redo Jesus Words to fit your view better..?
Jesus' words were perfectly clear. Tacitus was going to show you that "whole earth" to them isn't the same thing as "whole earth" to us. But why quibble over facts? :toofunny
smaller
Member
Like I didn't know that's where you were headed?
These kinds of games are played all the time.
You're gonna ask some guy who thought the world was flat and use that to rewrite Jesus' Own Words?
zzz
Stormcrow
Member
Anyone can throw verses around and "look" smart, spiritual and all that.
But again, how do any of your responses - noted above - address the fact that Jesus was speaking directly to Peter, James, John, and Andrew on the Mount of Olives, and that the you He kept using was directed to those four disciples named in Mark 13 and not us?
How do any of your recent replies take into account the words "about to come upon the whole world?"
In short, they don't. "Fudderism" preaches a wholly different gospel than the one Christ and the apostles taught and the only way it can be "supported" Biblically is to discard half the New Testament.
Furthermore, it calls Christ and the apostles "liars" and tells people God didn't really mean what He said in the Bible whose verses are tossed around here by "Fudderists" like so much used Kleenex (examples of which are noted above.)
2
Stormcrow
Member
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. Romans 1:8 (NASB)
{Sarcasm mode: ON}
Obviously, Paul is a liar incapable of understanding that he couldn't have meant the "whole world" as we know it, and that the Roman Church is the seat of the antichrist himself, according to some here!
The faith of the Roman church proclaimed throughout the whole world???
Surely Paul must have meant the apostasy and harlotry of the Roman church proclaimed throughout Protestant denominations!
Wow! We need to rewrite the Bible to make it read what we believe today, considering the fact that Paul was so utterly wrong in calling the church at Rome "faithful!"
{Sarcasm mode: Off}
What does anyone reading Romans 1:8 suppose Paul meant by the phrase "whole world" and why wouldn't it mean to Luke (Paul's disciple) and John (Paul's fellow apostle) exactly what it meant to Paul???
{Sarcasm mode: ON}
Obviously, Paul is a liar incapable of understanding that he couldn't have meant the "whole world" as we know it, and that the Roman Church is the seat of the antichrist himself, according to some here!
The faith of the Roman church proclaimed throughout the whole world???
Surely Paul must have meant the apostasy and harlotry of the Roman church proclaimed throughout Protestant denominations!
Wow! We need to rewrite the Bible to make it read what we believe today, considering the fact that Paul was so utterly wrong in calling the church at Rome "faithful!"
{Sarcasm mode: Off}
What does anyone reading Romans 1:8 suppose Paul meant by the phrase "whole world" and why wouldn't it mean to Luke (Paul's disciple) and John (Paul's fellow apostle) exactly what it meant to Paul???
smaller
Member
Why in the whole world would you think Jesus' Words are only applicable to them?
We have a very different basis of understandings. Yours, historical. Mine, spiritual. Spiritual matters are not confines of history or limited in intent by such views.
I'm going to give Jesus the benefit of the doubt and perhaps think that He knew the world to be big and round. I might even think He Is much smarter than Tacitus.
And full preterism doesn't do a rather complete butcher job itself? You know I wouldn't give you two cents for that entire hokey construct.
You are welcome to think that the whole world was not the whole world or that heaven and earth was the 70 a.d. temple.Furthermore, it calls Christ and the apostles "liars" and tells people God didn't really mean what He said in the Bible whose verses are tossed around here by "Fudderists" like so much used Kleenex (examples of which are noted above.)
Those are going to remain reaches of imposed imaginations to most who rightfully reject full preterism.
s
smaller
Member
You have no idea what Paul is even referring to in that statement. Your sight is limited to things you see with your flesh eyes.
Tell me, where sat this god?
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
or where sat this spirit of stupor?
Romans 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.
Why don't you try peeking past the flesh sometime?
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
For all I know in your little historical sighted views, when Jesus cast a demon out, you probably would have had to see that entity running down the street in the flesh.
s
Stormcrow
Member
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew were questioning Him privately, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?" And Jesus began to say to them... Mark 13:3-5 (NASB)Originally Posted by Stormcrow
Anyone can throw verses around and "look" smart, spiritual and all that.
But again, how do any of your responses - noted above - address the fact that Jesus was speaking directly to Peter, James, John, and Andrew on the Mount of Olives, and that the you He kept using was directed to those four disciples named in Mark 13 and not us?
You see your name in that passage anywhere?
You see the name of your church in that passage anywhere??
The name of your pastor???
The name of your denomination???
The name of your city, state, or country?????
Wow. I don't know why. Why don't you tell me?
There's nothing that comes from the Holy Spirit that calls Christ a “liar.” Nothing.
Then why call Him a liar?
The “whole world” was a lot smaller to them than it is to us. Neither He nor Paul were communicating those words "Whole world" to us.
Irrelevant. You've based your challenge on the words “whole world” and at least both Tacitus and Paul disagree with your reading of those words. There's no doubt Jesus is smarter than Tacitus but I'd put good money on the fact that Tacitus is a lot smarter than you.
Only as far as you see it.
I wasn't asking.
Such literalism is fit only for those incapable of chewing solid food.
Storm,
I agree with ya lot not always but alot...
then accordingly the same applies to :
Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying
Some where is a balance of Scripture . The Word The Scripture the bible..is not a dead book He is the Word and He is alive.
I agree with ya lot not always but alot...
then accordingly the same applies to :
Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying
Some where is a balance of Scripture . The Word The Scripture the bible..is not a dead book He is the Word and He is alive.
Along this line of thinking, then I have to ask a couple of questions...
1) Why was it recorded at all? It does not concern any of us?
2) What instruction is there in the Bible for us today? None of it is addressed to us specifically.
Last edited by a moderator:
smaller
Member
Stated prior, Word and Spirit deal with matters spiritual.
Lawlessness, judgment, forgiveness, repentance, mercy, faith, hope, love are not matters limited to the individuals to whom they were spoken nor are they matters confined to historical context.
Have many times. But it goes in one ear and runs through your subjectively imposed filters. Just like talking to an SDAer. No matter what is said they only hear Saturday sabbath and no pork chops.
Liar in your ears meaning other than what you think you see?
Oh how fun. So we are going to say that Jesus did not know the size of the world now? :eeeekkk
My point on the term 'world' is that same is also comprised of matters, powers and principalities unseen.
I understand that Word and Spirit engage internal matters.
"evil comes from within."
s
Last edited by a moderator:
The beatitudes were spoken directly to the multitudes, Yet i am sure you can read the message there in.
Generally speaking..... When Jesus says some of you will be alive that carries a lot of weight to the general topic here. IMO more so then 'to them' I am not good at grammar although i do see who He was recurring to.
As in , sorta like, A room full of people and your giving a speech you may direct some of the wording to Jack , Jill, Tom and Sally yet you are talking to the whole room...
No snark involved, honest questions and looking for honest answers.
Last edited by a moderator:
smaller
Member
My point of observation of this matter of the 'generation' is that Satan also stood 'in man' on that day as well as untold numbers of his compatriots.
So yes, they were also 'standing there' in man.
They too have 'a generation.' An evil one.
In my own reading, they are still standing here today, in man.
Simple.
s
So yes, they were also 'standing there' in man.
They too have 'a generation.' An evil one.
In my own reading, they are still standing here today, in man.
Simple.
s
Stormcrow
Member
Yes, we can take lessons from the text even though the message itself was not directed to us. That's why His words were preserved, because we can learn from them even 2,000 years later. And they point to the One who gives eternal life.
Jesus spoke only to Peter, James, Andrew and John on the Mount of Olives, though I'm sure they took what He said to the others. His message was meant for all of them, but it was all to be fulfilled within their generation, while some of them were still alive. That much is perfectly clear from two specific passages:
"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)
"But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man." Luke 21:36 (NASB)
All these things that are about to take place is a direct reference to everything He had just told them earlier in the chapter. Everything...as in "all these things."
The point here is that either we take Him to be true in everything He said or we don't, but we don't get to pick and chose what we believe to be true, especially when He was specific about the timing of these things He was prophesying.
By refusing to see what Christ said regarding the timeliness of His words, Futurism essentially calls Christ a liar.
I think that's pretty thin ice both spiritually and theologically speaking.