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Matt.23

jasoncran said:
first off they never claimed to be moshiac.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jason.

I saw them as anti Christ, against Christ, not false Christs. Not all of them of coarse.

I think of false Christs, as someone like that Waco guy, David Kirsch. He actually claimed to be Christ. But maybe I'm being too shallow, in my thoughts or comparisons.

PS I learned more from your post, about the seventy. Thanks
 
well they were that, don't get me wrong. they did deny him as the son of god but that wasn't what they were being rebuked for. Jesus' intent was to get them to repent and lo we have one that believed. nicodemus. remember that jesus came to do what the bible says. the bible says and the sages teach that moshiac would come to restore the torah and proper worship of god. jesus did do that just not as the jewish sages seen it. see jeremiah 31 for that.
some say that if isreal's leadership did repent that we would have Judaism with the messiah and all be under the torah as Hebrew converts. I slighty disagree as theres a few prophecies on the rejection of the lord and the gentiles believing in YHWH in the prophets.
 
jasoncran said:
some say that if isreal's leadership did repent that we would have Judaism with the messiah and all be under the torah as Hebrew converts. I slighty disagree as theres a few prophecies on the rejection of the lord and the gentiles believing in YHWH in the prophets.
Click to expand...


I can't agree with that either, there are OT prophecies that speak of His crucifiction and sufferings.
I may have gone off topic?
 
the oper is trying to pin this on the current church and is using an eschatological chapter on the end times of isreal
 
Deborah13 said:
Ryan said:
I believe verses 4 and 5 speak to the Pharisees of our day, and 20 verses later speak to the false christs. IMO, satans little helpers are none other then some of the outlandish preachers of our time who are dressed in sheeps clothing. Pharisees in Jesus's day, Pharisees in our day.
Click to expand...

Could you please explain further. In Matthew 23, I'm not hearing this, in what Jesus was saying to the people about the Pharisees?

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Click to expand...

It appears Jesus is telling the Pharisees to obey them, and at the same time not to. Much of Jesus's criticism of the Pharisees was because they taught men commandments that made void the commandments of God; Matthew 15:13. So the problem is not the Pharisees teaching Torah, but anything that contradicts it. The Pharisees commandments emphasized outside observance and not what would change the inner man (Matthew 23:25-28). He considered their teachings to be of leaven and would corrupt the people (Matthew 16:11-12).

The point Jesus was making was even though they taught Torah, their teachings were not based in humble faith in God, but based on their own self-righteousness and using their erroneous interpretations of Torah negating God's commandments.

Does that answer or clarify anything?
 
Is that going on today.....outward show, inward filled with dead men's bones? Or are we immune to the devils subtle deceptions?
 
Withheld said:
Is that going on today.....outward show, inward filled with dead men's bones? Or are we immune to the devils subtle deceptions?
Click to expand...

Matthew 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.

I really believe Jesus is saying here that many will declare that Jesus is the Christ, but in doing so will mislead many people.

If you look at or have been to many different churches, or scan the channels on some televangelists, if you don't know your bible, a sheep could quickly become fleeced by many of the erroneous teachings going on. It would be foolish to not know and identify who the false teachers are, so we can prevent our brothers and sisters from being lead astray.

Yes, you are absolutely correct.
 
Withheld said:
Is that going on today.....outward show, inward filled with dead men's bones? Or are we immune to the devils subtle deceptions?
Click to expand...

Christ's Words are seen in Isa. 5:1-4 for His Doctrine alone. Verse (Isa. 5:3) 3 has a unite/fid Whole seen as the free choice as a [complete CHURCH.]
See Isa 5:7
[7] For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts 'is the house of Israel, ..'

The REJECTION was that of CHRIST HIMSELF! John 12:42-43.

Christ's VIRGIN FOLD yet without 'Christ IN IT'... that is mandatory, is DESOLATE! Matt. 23:38 (see Rom. 8:1 with Rom. 8:14)


--Elijah
 
Ryan said:
Deborah13 said:
Ryan said:
I believe verses 4 and 5 speak to the Pharisees of our day, and 20 verses later speak to the false christs. IMO, satans little helpers are none other then some of the outlandish preachers of our time who are dressed in sheeps clothing. Pharisees in Jesus's day, Pharisees in our day.
Click to expand...

Could you please explain further. In Matthew 23, I'm not hearing this, in what Jesus was saying to the people about the Pharisees?

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Click to expand...

It appears Jesus is telling the Pharisees to obey them, and at the same time not to. Much of Jesus's criticism of the Pharisees was because they taught men commandments that made void the commandments of God; Matthew 15:13. So the problem is not the Pharisees teaching Torah, but anything that contradicts it. The Pharisees commandments emphasized outside observance and not what would change the inner man (Matthew 23:25-28). He considered their teachings to be of leaven and would corrupt the people (Matthew 16:11-12).

The point Jesus was making was even though they taught Torah, their teachings were not based in humble faith in God, but based on their own self-righteousness and using their erroneous interpretations of Torah negating God's commandments.

Does that answer or clarify anything?
Click to expand...

Yes indeed, quite well and I agree with your observations.

Things like Corbin.
 
corban, that is well sick what they did.

woe unto ye scribes and Pharisees for ye devour widow's houses.. man and they knew the torah was against this.
 
R widows houses being devoured today by..........fill in the blank.
 
It would take a lot more today then then to devour a widow's house. something called social security is most helpful for that issue but that is a digression.
 
Yea that Hinn deal. did u see the video where hands his lead singer a water pipe?

Now im going to enter the danger zone, If i haven't already.smile.Is demanding tithes from a widow devouring a widow's house?
 
No, if she is able to give. I mean really, if I was dead and my wife was saved. she would have no bills as I have enough life insurance to buy my house three times over. I have about half a million in life insurance.

my wife has income outside of me.
 
In many cases, yes. There are young widows, raising children on meager earnings and there are elderly living on low incomes.
They are the one of the ones that the Law never asked anything from in tithes and were receivers of offerings.
 
I do know a lady was disable and gave, she died as a blessed woman. she didn't have much in material things but she did have riches in God.
 
Deborah13 said:
In many cases, yes. There are young widows, raising children on meager earnings and there are elderly living on low incomes.
They are the one of the ones that the Law never asked anything from in tithes and were receivers of offerings.
Click to expand...
[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

While I believe the whole business of tithes is an Old Testament matter in any case (although freewill offerings of a tenth or more than a tenth of income can be good today), yet sometimes the supposed tithing obligation can descend into almost extortionate big business.

Blessings.
 
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